Weekend work, realistic ??

[Trance4mer]

Hello AVC community,

Was hoping to get some opinions and perspectives on the subject. I will elaborate further...

My goal is to ultimately continue my passion for flying, and to essentially build hours and experience, without paying for it out of pocket. I realize that my credentials below, suggests that I have built up pilot resume that is intended to pursue a full time career, and not just for a hobby. But as I got deeper and deeper into my training, it started to become clearer that I am just not in a position to take the massive pay cut this industry requires to start. At least not for the foreseeable future. After spending close to $70k on my training, I am now left wondering what options are available to me, to make this work around my Mon-Fri 9-5 job.

I have explored p/t instructing, skydive operations, glider towing etc... but am curious to know if air operators even see value in weekend/evening work only? My general feeling now is that, unless you are willing to go all in, then there is not much interest, or I just need to be connected and know some people closer. Sadly my social network is weak in this industry.

I do not intend for this post to come off as a "Hire Me" post, as I know there is a section for that. I am just trying to find out if my expectations are realistic for what I am looking for at the moment.

Cred: CPL 280TT, Gr1 IFR, Multi, Class 4 IR, IATRA

Cheers,

[digits_]

The ones you mention are the only ones I can realistically imagine.

Instructing might be the easiest to get in part time.

Just be aware that you are competing with new pilots willing to work 24/7. Perhaps you could spin the instructor job that you obviously won't leave after 6 months because you won't be flying as much as a full time pilot and just like it as a hobby?

[photofly]

If you're only available to fly at weekends, your resumé isn't going to look much different in two, or three, or five years time.

People who employ pilots run businesses; they're not in it to service your needs, pad your logbook, or "see interest" in when you're available. They don't need or want pilots with passion, they want employees who turn up on time and say "yes, sir". They have sh*t to do, and if you're not available when it needs to be done, you're not going to get a job with them.

Anyone who does run a professional outfit and needs pilots at weekends needs those pilots rested and ready to work, which is not compatible with them working a full working week Monday through to Friday at some other job. When are you expecting to rest?

Respectfully, after a CPL, multi instrument rating and instructor rating, it's a bit bloody late to be asking these questions. Where did this $70k to fund all this training come from, and how is that you've only at the end of it realized you don't have a realistic plan to use it?

[nohojob]

Trance4mer,

not sure what you did to photofly but it must have been pretty serious !

If I were you, I would go visit schools. In Summer they may need extra instructors for week end. I've seen guys doing that back in early 2000 and the market was not as good as now. You could also teach gs in the evening, it could help you to get your foot in the door.

I myself started my career without a specific plan and it worked just fine.

Good luck and don't get discouraged.

[Trance4mer]

If you're only available to fly at weekends, your resumé isn't going to look much different in two, or three, or five years time.

People who employ pilots run businesses; they're not in it to service your needs, pad your logbook, or "see interest" in when you're available. They don't need or want pilots with passion, they want employees who turn up on time and say "yes, sir". They have sh*t to do, and if you're not available when it needs to be done, you're not going to get a job with them.

Anyone who does run a professional outfit and needs pilots at weekends needs those pilots rested and ready to work, which is not compatible with them working a full working week Monday through to Friday at some other job. When are you expecting to rest?

Respectfully, after a CPL, multi instrument rating and instructor rating, it's a bit bloody late to be asking these questions. Where did this $70k to fund all this training come from, and how is that you've only at the end of it realized you don't have a realistic plan to use it?

So to be clear, I am not trying to complain, nor do I feel like I am entitled to a job. I genuinely want to explore options based on my circumstances. There is merit to what you are saying, and perhaps I got into this with a bit of extra confidence that 20 years in a corporate career, with current leadership experience could have been appreciated in an instructor job, hence why I got the rating. I was/am fortunate to have a job that allowed me to fund the training without going into debt, but as we all know life can throw curve balls at us, and when I started my training in 2018 I may have had a different mindset or goal than I do today. The pandemic didn't help either. So for the moment, my plans to dive in head first and take the plunge are on hold, but at the same time, I do not want to let my skills rust away either. Hence why I decided to post on this forum.

[digits_]

Also note that you're not necessarily limited to weekends. Skydiving can happen on summer evenings as well. Best to enquire at your local skydiving club.

Note that pay for skydiving is possibly the lowest in aviation. Don't expect to make much.

[Trance4mer]

Trance4mer,

not sure what you did to photofly but it must have been pretty serious !

If I were you, I would go visit schools. In Summer they may need extra instructors for week end. I've seen guys doing that back in early 2000 and the market was not as good as now. You could also teach gs in the evening, it could help you to get your foot in the door.

I myself started my career without a specific plan and it worked just fine.

Good luck and don't get discouraged.

Thank you nohojob, that is my primary plan right now. I have reached out to a good number of schools in the GTA and so far the response has been no to p/t instructing, unless I was a class 1-3. I will keep trying and may look at ultra-lights as supervision is not required, and hence could be an easier in for me. I am really trying to stay encouraged here LOL, there are days where I just want to close this chapter ...

[Conflicting Traffic]

I have reached out to a good number of schools in the GTA and so far the response has been no to p/t instructing, unless I was a class 1-3.

Is it an option for you to take a leave of absence from your normal role and instruct full time until you have a Class 3? Then try to get a part-time gig? That has the added benefit of requiring a renewal every two years instead of every year.

[Bede]

Tow gliders and fly jumpers on the weekends. That's what my dad did for pretty much my whole childhood. He ended up with an instructor rating when he was around 50 and did that for a bit too.

[JBI]

I'll follow up your questions with more questions.

-At what point do you see yourself being able to make the move to full time flying?

-And related, what salary do you feel you need to be able to make such a move? '

-Would you consider never flying full time and sticking with your corporate job?

-What is your career goal with respect to flying? Airlines? Corporate? Whatever - just as long as it pays the bills?

It can be done, but, as someone who did go back to a low paying flying job after working in an office for almost a decade, you're going to have to take the plunge sometime. I'm personally glad I did and that my circumstances worked, but that first pay cut was massive and definitely a little scary.

A few more thoughts/advice on your next moves:

-While I don't know your current financial situation and respect that sometimes there are situations that simply cannot be helped, with the way the pilot market is right now, your risk/benefit ratio is, in my opinion, the best it could possibly be right now. If the airlines are your goal, a solid 6-12 months of instructing (if that) will make you a prime candidate for some regional airlines. In my 25 years in aviation I have never seen such quick progression from 250 hour wonder to regional First Officer. While I think it will stay this way for a little while, you never know what job prospects will be like in 3,5 and 10 years.

-Although it's going up, the FO salary for regional FOs at Jazz, Encore, Porter is still quite low. However, the reality is that once you're in that position, the pay gets reasonable(ish) after a few years experience and an upgrade.

-building hours instructing or flying jumpers will only get you so far. You may get hired to a regional FO spot or a corporate FO position, but, again generally speaking, these positions are full time and do not pay all that much. It's only after getting experience in these positions will you be able to move into positions where you can expect to make a reasonable salary.

-Even if you are able to make such a jump, it's actually a very big challenge going from part-time VFR flying to an airline environment and I unfortunately know of a number of pilots who washed out of training trying such a move. While their personality was great, it really was too steep a jump for their experience level. Airlines will give a little extra training, but not much. You have a pretty limited number of Procedures Trainer and then Sim sessions to get up to snuff and if you can't do it, they'll say "hey, go get some more experience and apply again in a year or two."

-Staying in your current job and flying on the side is definitely possible. The key aspects are networking and flexibility. If your job has strict hours, it'll be pretty hard to make it work, but if there is some flexibility, you can probably find that there are more options. i.e. instructing on the weekend and the one or two nights or early mornings during the week. Regardless, I would recommend still going to your airport, renting a plane for an hour or so every other weekend and then finding places to actually hang out and talk with people at the airport. You'll still (slowly) be building hours and keeping up currency as well as building your network.

Obviously on a public forum you don't want nor need to post your current salary. However, it really is a situation of short term pain for long term gain. The earlier you can go to flying full time, the quicker you will be back to making as much (or more) of your current salary.

[khedrei]

I encourage you to keep searching for a part time instructing gig or something else that will allow you to work weekends.

A dedicated part time instructor with life experience can be valuable to pick up slack. Might prove to be even more valuable the thinner the pilot workforce gets. Some companies might see it if you sell it right.

Keep in mind though, biting the bullet and taking a year to build hours quickly then jump into a regional or something could put you into a decent salary position in 2-3 years. The time it will take to build to the 1k hours part time could take 5-6 years to get you in a similar salary position as the former option.

Not sure what you're making right now, but I'd argue that the year or so you spend instructing is the least of the pain. The 3-4 years at medivac then early years at regional before a good salary is the hard part and you won't be able to avoid those painful years even if you got a part time gig.

My 2 cents.

Good luck.

[digits_]

Might also be worth it to ask the hard question if you still want to fly commercially at all.

Flying for fun is just that... Fun!
You might be wondering 'what if', but I bet there are way more pilots out there wishing they could just fly for fun, if they had a viable way out.

Yes you got a CPL and ME IFR etc. But that's not lost for private flying either. It will make you easier to insure if you end up buying your own airplane for example. You can likely fly quite a bit if you take into account the salary difference between your current job and a 45k fo job.

Food for thought. Don't feel guilty leaving the rat race before you appear at the start line.

Flying commercially is great, but it will eventually turn into a job. And one that likely demands moving multiple times and will likely strain your personal relationships.

[Trance4mer]

@digits_
@JBI
@khedrei

Thank you all for your thoughts and insights, the responses were actually more than I expected to get, it's nice to see the community banding together to help pilots out.

There were a lot of questions/suggestions thrown back at me, and believe me, I have been racking my brain for several months now trying to figure out my next steps.

In the end, I WILL do something with this skill set and training I have received. Whether that be eventually instructing as a part-timer, volunteering with air cadets, or even flying at the regionals one day.

Some of you inquired on my financial status, and although I would not disclose that information, what I can say is, that when I started training towards my PPL in 2018, my salary was pretty different than it is today, largely due to a promotion I got into a leadership role at my company in 2019. As the prospect of a pay cut gap grew, so did our financial responsibilities, as my wife and I purchased a rental property last year, and I am yet to see how that will unfold, as it is intended for AirBNB revenue. "yes I know... first world problems"

The biggest challenge I see with this industry is the lack of viable opportunities for those 750hrs needed to get to 1k. Sure I would strongly consider taking the pay cut if Encore or Jazz called me tomorrow, but we all know that will not happen without a major sacrifice needed, and I respect that.

In the end, I am not quite sure what to do, but i do know that I am ok with building my hours over a few more years to see how things unfold in the industry and within my personal life. Hence why I landed on part time work of any sort...

[rob-air]

I did exactly that, started doing fam flights on weekends, the pilot for a day kind of stuff, where people come in for the experience of flying a plane and no real intent of doing training. You could look for a school that do a lot of those.