Recent WestJet ALPA video for all pilots

[McKinley]

Fixed it.

Now please tell me though, how pilots are a “unique work group”

Because, they are the only group that can shut it down, the only group that has to be employed by the company in order to attain and maintain an AOC. All other groups can be trained in a couple days to weeks or can be contracted out by a third party vendor.
You don’t have an airline without airplanes and you don’t fly airplanes without pilots, simple!
Don’t get me wrong, the other groups can shut it down but the difference is they can be replaced in a much shorter timeframe.

OK. For the record I support this strike and especially the pay for entry level pilots.

Onex sure sounds like a nice group of people….

I thought the quote meant “a unique worker group to any in Canada”

My mistake then.

The thing I will say, is a ton of other worker groups feel the same as WJ pilots, don’t be surprised to see a lot of other strikes…….

I’ve said it before. You’re guys issue should be with TFW’s. Every one of you should be jamming your MP’s phone lines until people with zero ties to Canada aren’t allowed to undercut you.

I re-watched the video …

This is whole campaign comes across as extraordinarily self- aggrandizing. ( aka extremely narcissistic) The woman at the podium ( FO someone) looked like she was about to burst into tears over her six figure salary.

Let’s recap: pilots don’t require a university education, the work is generally highly automated, relatively short working days compared to other professions and it does not take a great deal of education to do. ( how long can training take again?) What career do you know where you can get out of flight training nowadays and get into a 705 carrier making 100,000 after a year or two?

I’m all for higher pay…but saying our labor is “discounted” relative to the states is insane. I’m sorry, but 500,000 USD for a pilot is a joke- that’s an overinflated wage.. In Canada, A “Discount” rate is 165,000 ( for a jazz captain) to 200,000? Hardly sweatshop conditions …

Yes, flat pay at AC sucks…

However, when you look at the company’s perspective, you’re a new employee learning a new trade ( A320, 321, 777) The company has hired you, took a great risk and you are new on that plane.

Act like professionals …be professional and make a well laid out argument for why people are going to be inconvenienced and or should pay more. Throwing out vague statements is hardly that… If I was Joe public missing my flight I’d throw eggs ( or worse) on all of you.

I haven’t heard one solid case made for higher pay by Alpa. What value do you bring? What skills do you bring? What are risks of your job? What are your responsibilities?

[lostaviator]

Because, they are the only group that can shut it down, the only group that has to be employed by the company in order to attain and maintain an AOC. All other groups can be trained in a couple days to weeks or can be contracted out by a third party vendor.
You don’t have an airline without airplanes and you don’t fly airplanes without pilots, simple!
Don’t get me wrong, the other groups can shut it down but the difference is they can be replaced in a much shorter timeframe.

OK. For the record I support this strike and especially the pay for entry level pilots.

Onex sure sounds like a nice group of people….

I thought the quote meant “a unique worker group to any in Canada”

My mistake then.

The thing I will say, is a ton of other worker groups feel the same as WJ pilots, don’t be surprised to see a lot of other strikes…….

I’ve said it before. You’re guys issue should be with TFW’s. Every one of you should be jamming your MP’s phone lines until people with zero ties to Canada aren’t allowed to undercut you.

I re-watched the video …

This is whole campaign comes across as extraordinarily self- aggrandizing. ( aka extremely narcissistic) The woman at the podium ( FO someone) looked like she was about to burst into tears over her six figure salary.

Let’s recap: pilots don’t require a university education, the work is generally highly automated, relatively short working days compared to other professions and it does not take a great deal of education to do. ( how long can training take again?) What career do you know where you can get out of flight training nowadays and get into a 705 carrier making 100,000 after a year or two?

I’m all for higher pay…but saying our labor is “discounted” relative to the states is insane. I’m sorry, but 500,000 USD for a pilot is a joke- that’s an overinflated wage.. In Canada, A “Discount” rate is 165,000 ( for a jazz captain) to 200,000? Hardly sweatshop conditions …

Yes, flat pay at AC sucks…

However, when you look at the company’s perspective, you’re a new employee learning a new trade ( A320, 321, 777) The company has hired you, took a great risk and you are new on that plane.

Act like professionals …be professional and make a well laid out argument for why people are going to be inconvenienced and or should pay more. Throwing out vague statements is hardly that… If I was Joe public missing my flight I’d throw eggs ( or worse) on all of you.

I haven’t heard one solid case made for higher pay by Alpa. What value do you bring? What skills do you bring? What are risks of your job? What are your responsibilities?

Why the focus on pay? Have you noticed that the pay issue is a few spots down the list? There are much more important issues. The company will attempt to make this about pay in an attempt to distract the public from the real issues. Job security.

[BTD]

Wow rookie. Adding words to a quote, in that way, is incredibly deceptive.

Fixed it.

Now please tell me though, how pilots are a “unique work group”

I never made that claim.

But just for fun. If we make a major error 100s of lives are potentially put at risk. I think that is unique compared to others employed by the airlines. AMEs could make similar claims.

[digits_]

Because, they are the only group that can shut it down, the only group that has to be employed by the company in order to attain and maintain an AOC. All other groups can be trained in a couple days to weeks or can be contracted out by a third party vendor.
You don’t have an airline without airplanes and you don’t fly airplanes without pilots, simple!
Don’t get me wrong, the other groups can shut it down but the difference is they can be replaced in a much shorter timeframe.

OK. For the record I support this strike and especially the pay for entry level pilots.

Onex sure sounds like a nice group of people….

I thought the quote meant “a unique worker group to any in Canada”

My mistake then.

The thing I will say, is a ton of other worker groups feel the same as WJ pilots, don’t be surprised to see a lot of other strikes…….

I’ve said it before. You’re guys issue should be with TFW’s. Every one of you should be jamming your MP’s phone lines until people with zero ties to Canada aren’t allowed to undercut you.

I re-watched the video …

This is whole campaign comes across as extraordinarily self- aggrandizing. ( aka extremely narcissistic) The woman at the podium ( FO someone) looked like she was about to burst into tears over her six figure salary.

Let’s recap: pilots don’t require a university education, the work is generally highly automated, relatively short working days compared to other professions and it does not take a great deal of education to do. ( how long can training take again?) What career do you know where you can get out of flight training nowadays and get into a 705 carrier making 100,000 after a year or two?

I’m all for higher pay…but saying our labor is “discounted” relative to the states is insane. I’m sorry, but 500,000 USD for a pilot is a joke- that’s an overinflated wage.. In Canada, A “Discount” rate is 165,000 ( for a jazz captain) to 200,000? Hardly sweatshop conditions …

Yes, flat pay at AC sucks…

However, when you look at the company’s perspective, you’re a new employee learning a new trade ( A320, 321, 777) The company has hired you, took a great risk and you are new on that plane.

Act like professionals …be professional and make a well laid out argument for why people are going to be inconvenienced and or should pay more. Throwing out vague statements is hardly that… If I was Joe public missing my flight I’d throw eggs ( or worse) on all of you.

I haven’t heard one solid case made for higher pay by Alpa. What value do you bring? What skills do you bring? What are risks of your job? What are your responsibilities?

You'll make the same joining WestJet with 10k hours on type and thus reduce the risk you mentioned. If WestJet doesn't value the training costs of new employees and thus doesn't care about attrition, then it's quite a weak argument to use it to justify low pay.

When people think about joining a company, pay the first 5 years is significantly more important than higher wages at year 20.

[rookiepilot]

Wow rookie. Adding words to a quote, in that way, is incredibly deceptive.

Fixed it.

Now please tell me though, how pilots are a “unique work group”

I never made that claim.

But just for fun. If we make a major error 100s of lives are potentially put at risk. I think that is unique compared to others employed by the airlines. AMEs could make similar claims.

Yes. But not unique compared to other professions. The first post I questioned here was about the comparison to TTC operators. (Who make average $63,000 a year).

If a TTC subway operator or Go transit driver really screw up at rush hour, a lotta people gonna have a bad day…..

So…context, is all….

[McKinley]

OK. For the record I support this strike and especially the pay for entry level pilots.

Onex sure sounds like a nice group of people….

I thought the quote meant “a unique worker group to any in Canada”

My mistake then.

The thing I will say, is a ton of other worker groups feel the same as WJ pilots, don’t be surprised to see a lot of other strikes…….

I’ve said it before. You’re guys issue should be with TFW’s. Every one of you should be jamming your MP’s phone lines until people with zero ties to Canada aren’t allowed to undercut you.

I re-watched the video …

This is whole campaign comes across as extraordinarily self- aggrandizing. ( aka extremely narcissistic) The woman at the podium ( FO someone) looked like she was about to burst into tears over her six figure salary.

Let’s recap: pilots don’t require a university education, the work is generally highly automated, relatively short working days compared to other professions and it does not take a great deal of education to do. ( how long can training take again?) What career do you know where you can get out of flight training nowadays and get into a 705 carrier making 100,000 after a year or two?

I’m all for higher pay…but saying our labor is “discounted” relative to the states is insane. I’m sorry, but 500,000 USD for a pilot is a joke- that’s an overinflated wage.. In Canada, A “Discount” rate is 165,000 ( for a jazz captain) to 200,000? Hardly sweatshop conditions …

Yes, flat pay at AC sucks…

However, when you look at the company’s perspective, you’re a new employee learning a new trade ( A320, 321, 777) The company has hired you, took a great risk and you are new on that plane.

Act like professionals …be professional and make a well laid out argument for why people are going to be inconvenienced and or should pay more. Throwing out vague statements is hardly that… If I was Joe public missing my flight I’d throw eggs ( or worse) on all of you.

I haven’t heard one solid case made for higher pay by Alpa. What value do you bring? What skills do you bring? What are risks of your job? What are your responsibilities?

You'll make the same joining WestJet with 10k hours on type and thus reduce the risk you mentioned. If WestJet doesn't value the training costs of new employees and thus doesn't care about attrition, then it's quite a weak argument to use it to justify low pay.

When people think about joining a company, pay the first 5 years is significantly more important than higher wages at year 20.

The same as AC? Who’se going to Westjet with 10K hours on type ? I agree that a type rated pilots as you describe is a major asset to the company. ( good point there)

Also, If one does not like the pay then leave the industry and do something else. We all signed up knowing what we were in for.. the company isn’t responsible for our crap decision making.

Let’s say someone goes to Westjet with 8000 TT and a bunch of RJ captain time from say Jazz. That pilot is more of a liability .. and a “training wage” is justified IMO. It’s a new type the pilot isn’t familiar with. Companies can’t make a different pay regimes for each pilot. Also, if that same captain upgrades to Captain he/ she won’t be making that lower wage any longer … likely more in the 100,000 range.

To play devil’s advocate : The skills, education, responsibility, existence of automation, knowledge, ongoing education justifies the pay. 100-200,000 is more than ample.

Why should pilots make more than that?

What does an RCMP officer make? Surgeon? Doctor ?

[cjp]

Wow.
If you weren't at the event, all pilots should see what's going on.

Even for student pilots, flight instructor or low time FO, what's going on relates to your career.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSgSk2kP_oM

You can thank the toxic leadership at Westjet for unifying the pilot group.

Go get em!

[FlyYYC]

I haven’t heard one solid case made for higher pay by Alpa. What value do you bring? What skills do you bring? What are risks of your job? What are your responsibilities?
[/quote]
You'll make the same joining WestJet with 10k hours on type and thus reduce the risk you mentioned. If WestJet doesn't value the training costs of new employees and thus doesn't care about attrition, then it's quite a weak argument to use it to justify low pay.

When people think about joining a company, pay the first 5 years is significantly more important than higher wages at year 20.
[/quote]


The same as AC? Who’se going to Westjet with 10K hours on type ? I agree that a type rated pilots as you describe is a major asset to the company. ( good point there)

Also, If one does not like the pay then leave the industry and do something else. We all signed up knowing what we were in for.. the company isn’t responsible for our crap decision making.

Let’s say someone goes to Westjet with 8000 TT and a bunch of RJ captain time from say Jazz. That pilot is more of a liability .. and a “training wage” is justified IMO. It’s a new type the pilot isn’t familiar with. Companies can’t make a different pay regimes for each pilot. Also, if that same captain upgrades to Captain he/ she won’t be making that lower wage any longer … likely more in the 100,000 range.

To play devil’s advocate : The skills, education, responsibility, existence of automation, knowledge, ongoing education justifies the pay. 100-200,000 is more than ample.

Why should pilots make more than that?

What does an RCMP officer make? Surgeon? Doctor ?
[/quote]
Dude. There are 10 year Fo's bringing home 1500 dollar paychecks. The total compensation includes the "retirement plan". Take home wage is an issue.

[cjp]

I re-watched the video …

This is whole campaign comes across as extraordinarily self- aggrandizing. ( aka extremely narcissistic) The woman at the podium ( FO someone) looked like she was about to burst into tears over her six figure salary.

Let’s recap: pilots don’t require a university education, the work is generally highly automated, relatively short working days compared to other professions and it does not take a great deal of education to do. ( how long can training take again?) What career do you know where you can get out of flight training nowadays and get into a 705 carrier making 100,000 after a year or two?

I’m all for higher pay…but saying our labor is “discounted” relative to the states is insane. I’m sorry, but 500,000 USD for a pilot is a joke- that’s an overinflated wage.. In Canada, A “Discount” rate is 165,000 ( for a jazz captain) to 200,000? Hardly sweatshop conditions …

Yes, flat pay at AC sucks…

However, when you look at the company’s perspective, you’re a new employee learning a new trade ( A320, 321, 777) The company has hired you, took a great risk and you are new on that plane.

Act like professionals …be professional and make a well laid out argument for why people are going to be inconvenienced and or should pay more. Throwing out vague statements is hardly that… If I was Joe public missing my flight I’d throw eggs ( or worse) on all of you.

I haven’t heard one solid case made for higher pay by Alpa. What value do you bring? What skills do you bring? What are risks of your job? What are your responsibilities?

You'll make the same joining WestJet with 10k hours on type and thus reduce the risk you mentioned. If WestJet doesn't value the training costs of new employees and thus doesn't care about attrition, then it's quite a weak argument to use it to justify low pay.

When people think about joining a company, pay the first 5 years is significantly more important than higher wages at year 20.

The same as AC? Who’se going to Westjet with 10K hours on type ? I agree that a type rated pilots as you describe is a major asset to the company. ( good point there)

Also, If one does not like the pay then leave the industry and do something else. We all signed up knowing what we were in for.. the company isn’t responsible for our crap decision making.

Let’s say someone goes to Westjet with 8000 TT and a bunch of RJ captain time from say Jazz. That pilot is more of a liability .. and a “training wage” is justified IMO. It’s a new type the pilot isn’t familiar with. Companies can’t make a different pay regimes for each pilot. Also, if that same captain upgrades to Captain he/ she won’t be making that lower wage any longer … likely more in the 100,000 range.

To play devil’s advocate : The skills, education, responsibility, existence of automation, knowledge, ongoing education justifies the pay. 100-200,000 is more than ample.

Why should pilots make more than that?

What does an RCMP officer make? Surgeon? Doctor ?

The crap decision making is about to turn into a unified labour force under one flag who are going to reverse their acceptance of decades of concessions in the name of corporate growth.

Whole heartedly disagree 100-200k is ample - particularly in Canada where your average 4 bedroom hub home is north of 1M, taxation is nearing 50%, insurance is free to charge what they wish, and cellular service, which is required but not compensated, is the highest in the world - sigh.

This is a skill tested occupation requiring significant mental and physical commitment from the individual to perform their duties safely day in and day out. It requires years of sacrifice to build the seniority to have a decent QOL.

Just because we love doing it doesn't mean we need to do it for peanuts, especially when airlines in Canada are posting record revenue and growth.

I hope my teal brothers can turn the corner and get back on track, and show Canadian pilots this career can still be sustainable in the long term.

[digits_]

I re-watched the video …

This is whole campaign comes across as extraordinarily self- aggrandizing. ( aka extremely narcissistic) The woman at the podium ( FO someone) looked like she was about to burst into tears over her six figure salary.

Let’s recap: pilots don’t require a university education, the work is generally highly automated, relatively short working days compared to other professions and it does not take a great deal of education to do. ( how long can training take again?) What career do you know where you can get out of flight training nowadays and get into a 705 carrier making 100,000 after a year or two?

I’m all for higher pay…but saying our labor is “discounted” relative to the states is insane. I’m sorry, but 500,000 USD for a pilot is a joke- that’s an overinflated wage.. In Canada, A “Discount” rate is 165,000 ( for a jazz captain) to 200,000? Hardly sweatshop conditions …

Yes, flat pay at AC sucks…

However, when you look at the company’s perspective, you’re a new employee learning a new trade ( A320, 321, 777) The company has hired you, took a great risk and you are new on that plane.

Act like professionals …be professional and make a well laid out argument for why people are going to be inconvenienced and or should pay more. Throwing out vague statements is hardly that… If I was Joe public missing my flight I’d throw eggs ( or worse) on all of you.

I haven’t heard one solid case made for higher pay by Alpa. What value do you bring? What skills do you bring? What are risks of your job? What are your responsibilities?

You'll make the same joining WestJet with 10k hours on type and thus reduce the risk you mentioned. If WestJet doesn't value the training costs of new employees and thus doesn't care about attrition, then it's quite a weak argument to use it to justify low pay.

When people think about joining a company, pay the first 5 years is significantly more important than higher wages at year 20.

The same as AC? Who’se going to Westjet with 10K hours on type ? I agree that a type rated pilots as you describe is a major asset to the company. ( good point there)

Also, If one does not like the pay then leave the industry and do something else. We all signed up knowing what we were in for.. the company isn’t responsible for our crap decision making.

Let’s say someone goes to Westjet with 8000 TT and a bunch of RJ captain time from say Jazz. That pilot is more of a liability .. and a “training wage” is justified IMO. It’s a new type the pilot isn’t familiar with. Companies can’t make a different pay regimes for each pilot. Also, if that same captain upgrades to Captain he/ she won’t be making that lower wage any longer … likely more in the 100,000 range.

To play devil’s advocate : The skills, education, responsibility, existence of automation, knowledge, ongoing education justifies the pay. 100-200,000 is more than ample.

Why should pilots make more than that?

What does an RCMP officer make? Surgeon? Doctor ?

That 8000h pilot in your example won't make 100k for at least 8 years. That's why people are unhappy.

If every WestJet pilot would make 100k to 200k the strike wouldn't have 93% support

Comparing to other professions is quite pointless. You will always find examples of people who make more, and people who make less.

[McKinley]

I haven’t heard one solid case made for higher pay by Alpa. What value do you bring? What skills do you bring? What are risks of your job? What are your responsibilities?

You'll make the same joining WestJet with 10k hours on type and thus reduce the risk you mentioned. If WestJet doesn't value the training costs of new employees and thus doesn't care about attrition, then it's quite a weak argument to use it to justify low pay.

When people think about joining a company, pay the first 5 years is significantly more important than higher wages at year 20.
[/quote]


The same as AC? Who’se going to Westjet with 10K hours on type ? I agree that a type rated pilots as you describe is a major asset to the company. ( good point there)

Also, If one does not like the pay then leave the industry and do something else. We all signed up knowing what we were in for.. the company isn’t responsible for our crap decision making.

Let’s say someone goes to Westjet with 8000 TT and a bunch of RJ captain time from say Jazz. That pilot is more of a liability .. and a “training wage” is justified IMO. It’s a new type the pilot isn’t familiar with. Companies can’t make a different pay regimes for each pilot. Also, if that same captain upgrades to Captain he/ she won’t be making that lower wage any longer … likely more in the 100,000 range.

To play devil’s advocate : The skills, education, responsibility, existence of automation, knowledge, ongoing education justifies the pay. 100-200,000 is more than ample.

Why should pilots make more than that?

What does an RCMP officer make? Surgeon? Doctor ?
[/quote]
Dude. There are 10 year Fo's bringing home 1500 dollar paychecks. The total compensation includes the "retirement plan". Take home wage is an issue.
[/quote]



A simple google search reveals a 737 F/O starts at 60,000 per year. ( I’d consider that reasonable given the fact that a new FO is a new employee / a risk/ liability for the company, needs training and is overall green/ inexperienced at that company .. it’s a training wage. )

The average salary is 82,000 ( VERY reasonable) given that that flying is an unskilled labor job. it looks like the top of the pile is around 200-300,000.

We aren’t police officers, psychologists, brain surgeons, professors, paramedics, air traffic controllers doctors, plumbers, electricians, carpenters, tree fallers or oil and gas workers as much as we want to be. Our jobs are largely automated, require ZERO skill, no university, no IQ test, zero trade school. Nada.

And yes, I’m aware we require flight training. To this I say, training can be done in a very short time period and largely everyone passes..

How are you oppressed again?

For what we are and what we do we’re compensated fairly. Don’t like it? Pursue one of the
Aforementioned trades/ professions.

Leave everyone else in peace and get the F back to work. The public considers us glorified bus drivers as is… stop embarrassing the rest of us.

[accountant]

Waiting for McKinley to be toasted and put on the “not in my jump seat” list

Statistically you’re more likely to die in a vehicle crash than an airline crash. So by that logic pay the truckers and everyone who drives cars more than pilots in the name of safety.

[McKinley]

Waiting for McKinley to be toasted and put on the “not in my jump seat” list

Statistically you’re more likely to die in a vehicle crash than an airline crash. So by that logic pay the truckers and everyone who drives cars more than pilots in the name of safety.

For having a difference of opinion? Nice. True professionalism.

What if I don’t want you in my jumpseat ?

Nobody in aviation needs to make 500,000 USD. If you think those wages will manifest themselves in Canada you’re delusional.

[FlyYYC]

Waiting for McKinley to be toasted and put on the “not in my jump seat” list

Statistically you’re more likely to die in a vehicle crash than an airline crash. So by that logic pay the truckers and everyone who drives cars more than pilots in the name of safety.

I can't decide if you guys are trolls or just someone who got a pfo. Either way, as I said. There are 10 year fo's bringing home 1500 dollar paychecks. Total compensation is skewed because it includes "retirement" benefits. Benefits cost is enormous. Commuters lost their free flights to base last contract. We have people flying the same airplanes and the same routes with lower pay and more days of work. We have a retention problem. I'm not sure why you have issue with unionized employees trying to improve their working conditions but I hope we are successful and I hope we set a standard that will improve your situation if you too are a pilot.

[McKinley]

Waiting for McKinley to be toasted and put on the “not in my jump seat” list

Statistically you’re more likely to die in a vehicle crash than an airline crash. So by that logic pay the truckers and everyone who drives cars more than pilots in the name of safety.

I can't decide if you guys are trolls or just someone who got a pfo. Either way, as I said. There are 10 year fo's bringing home 1500 dollar paychecks. Total compensation is skewed because it includes "retirement" benefits. Benefits cost is enormous. Commuters lost their free flights to base last contract. We have people flying the same airplanes and the same routes with lower pay and more days of work. We have a retention problem. I'm not sure why you have issue with unionized employees trying to improve their working conditions but I hope we are successful and I hope we set a standard that will improve your situation if you too are a pilot.

That’s unacceptable. With that said, it’s not like that money isn’t benefiting you or the pilot group. - it’s your retirement.

Why not get a second job / side hustle?

The industry / economy went through COVID where we spent tons of money and shut down the economy for really next to nothing… people are cash strapped as is.

This strike will only drive the few customers away we have not to mention the public optics.

The public isn’t in favor of this strike and is tired of everything increasing in cost.. from the public’s standpoint, unions have destroyed WJ.

Alpa isn’t making this case well either … if there are 10 year Fo’s making $1500 this should be brought up and brought to the forefront ..

This strike is totally tone deaf.

[RippleRock]

DON'T ENGAGE THE TROLLS!

They don't understand our history, our contribution and are interested in "dumbing down" the profession by belittling you and what you do. The trolls on this forum have their own agenda. Nothing else matters. Their success in the industry depends on the "crap compensation model" for pilots. They know it, and you rising up are a DIRECT THREAT. Unlike pilots, they know they are "replaceable chaff" and they may be on the chopping block should the company look for cuts elsewhere.

Canadian pilots have been working a a discount for far too long. We are being left in the dust by our American peers. Same aircraft, same routes same airspace, same passengers in many instances. You know the sacrifice you made to get to this point, you know the cost. Don't stand for "crap compensation" one more day.

Use the "blocking feature" to silence idiots like McKinley. Her only purpose is to sap your resolve to save their own hide when the Corp comes after other employee groups because YOU CHOSE to say NO MORE.

HOLD THE LINE.

[lostaviator]

Waiting for McKinley to be toasted and put on the “not in my jump seat” list

Statistically you’re more likely to die in a vehicle crash than an airline crash. So by that logic pay the truckers and everyone who drives cars more than pilots in the name of safety.

I can't decide if you guys are trolls or just someone who got a pfo. Either way, as I said. There are 10 year fo's bringing home 1500 dollar paychecks. Total compensation is skewed because it includes "retirement" benefits. Benefits cost is enormous. Commuters lost their free flights to base last contract. We have people flying the same airplanes and the same routes with lower pay and more days of work. We have a retention problem. I'm not sure why you have issue with unionized employees trying to improve their working conditions but I hope we are successful and I hope we set a standard that will improve your situation if you too are a pilot.

That’s unacceptable. With that said, it’s not like that money isn’t benefiting you or the pilot group. - it’s your retirement.

Why not get a second job / side hustle?

The industry / economy went through COVID where we spent tons of money and shut down the economy for really next to nothing… people are cash strapped as is.

This strike will only drive the few customers away we have not to mention the public optics.

The public isn’t in favor of this strike and is tired of everything increasing in cost.. from the public’s standpoint, unions have destroyed WJ.

Alpa isn’t making this case well either … if there are 10 year Fo’s making $1500 this should be brought up and brought to the forefront ..

This strike is totally tone deaf.

Second job? Have you heard of Colgan Air. We have a legal responsibility to show up fit for work.

People are actually not cash strapped. The household savings rate is currently 6%. It was 3% pre-covid. Source Stats Can.

Without an actual poll or survey, you can't say the public is against the strike. Yes people flying this week are. But the majority of feedback seems to be in support of the workers.

The fare portion of an airline ticket has not kept up with inflation. It sucks that things are expensive as they are, but why should this one industry be the one to ignore inflationary price pressure? There has to be a point where the price point adjusts to match the actual demand level.

[RippleRock]

Why are you engaging this McKinley fool? Are you trying to justify your position, because you aren't certain of it?

You know she's either jealous, a Management hack or someone who is directly affected by a strike. She may even be a pilot who just didn't plan financially for a work stoppage, and will cut off her nose to spite her own face.

Some people you just have to drag through a strike kicking and biting. Pure and simple. All pilots will benefit in the end.

They have to live with their opposition to it. We will remember those who oppose us.

[lostaviator]

Why are you engaging this McKinley fool? Are you trying to justify your position, because you aren't certain of it?

You know she's either jealous, a Management hack or someone who is directly affected by a strike. She may even be a pilot who just didn't plan financially for a work stoppage, and will cut off her nose to spite her own face.

Some people you just have to drag through a strike kicking and biting. Pure and simple. All pilots will benefit in the end.

They have to live with their opposition to it. We will remember those who oppose us.

I have a few reasons for engaging and none of them have anything to do with my position (highly supportive).

The main reason is that I do not agree with brushing dissenting opinions aside or ignoring them. This practice is a growing concern in current times and I do not think it furthers us as a society. Simply put, I do not agree with cancel (or blocking) culture. All this does is cause personal opinions to be repressed and grow stronger. Although unlikely in this case, something said in an exchange might just change or soften someone's view.

Another reason is that this is a public forum. Creeped by anyone with an internet connection including the media. If we allow these people fighting against us to be the most prominent voice, we aren't doing ourselves any favors. You can block them all you want, but the anti-pilot BS they post online is still visible to everyone else. You might not see it anymore but curious onlookers google searching "westjet pilot strike" sure will.

Will McKinley or Accountant change their minds? No. I think that is certain. While one appears to be a pilot, it is pretty clear the other is embedded within wj management somewhere. But when they throw false claims out into the public about what pilots are fighting for in this country, I think it is important to offer another perspective.

Feel free to block me too if you disagree

[accountant]

I will change my mind when you give me a valid reason why you need significant raises, more so than any other group that is all asking for the same thing.

You haven't shown that. You've shown a general disdain for the public ("We can shut this down"). You've shown a general disdain for any opinion that doesn't match your position. You're playing like a typical right wing neo-con that is mad someone else sat down in your sandbox and asked if they could share your shovel to move things around.

You act like a massive increase to wages (among everything else) won't impact the average ticket buyer and only adds a few dollars. Sorry, but the math is there and you choose to ignore it. Insults are the only thing that grabs your attention sadly.

It's one thing to bargain for large increases when you're in a booming economy with record profits. It's another to bargain when you're coming out of a pandemic.

Go ahead, shut it down if you think that changes things. You've shown you don't care about public perception, nor anything other than yourselves. You could go to the table (and the public) with a reasonable proposal, like PSAC and CRA did and not have a long lasting strike or much ill will. You've chosen to be combatative and take the "We deserve Delta wages!" which really garners you no friends except in your pilot groups.

Go ahead, be grumpy that management pulled software access... that... let's face it... you'd use to look up who is trying to take seats to deny any "Scabs" access. That's not what's it's intended for. Good on them for shutting it down.

[lostaviator]

Ripplerock. Another follow up/answer to your point. The above reply is something not worthy of engaging with. It is pure emotion.

Hold the line.

[accountant]

"Hold the line!"

(aka, oh crap, we're losing momentum)

[wing'd]

"Hold the line!"

(aka, oh crap, we're losing momentum)

@accountant.

I cannot wait for this situation to conclude. I cannot wait for pilots to get paid what they’re worth

And when that happens, please do not disappear from this forum , keep that same energy, keep barking

[Canadaflyer46]

I will change my mind when you give me a valid reason why you need significant raises, more so than any other group that is all asking for the same thing.

You haven't shown that. You've shown a general disdain for the public ("We can shut this down"). You've shown a general disdain for any opinion that doesn't match your position. You're playing like a typical right wing neo-con that is mad someone else sat down in your sandbox and asked if they could share your shovel to move things around.

You act like a massive increase to wages (among everything else) won't impact the average ticket buyer and only adds a few dollars. Sorry, but the math is there and you choose to ignore it. Insults are the only thing that grabs your attention sadly.

It's one thing to bargain for large increases when you're in a booming economy with record profits. It's another to bargain when you're coming out of a pandemic.

Go ahead, shut it down if you think that changes things. You've shown you don't care about public perception, nor anything other than yourselves. You could go to the table (and the public) with a reasonable proposal, like PSAC and CRA did and not have a long lasting strike or much ill will. You've chosen to be combatative and take the "We deserve Delta wages!" which really garners you no friends except in your pilot groups.

Go ahead, be grumpy that management pulled software access... that... let's face it... you'd use to look up who is trying to take seats to deny any "Scabs" access. That's not what's it's intended for. Good on them for shutting it down.

Hahahaha. "Coming out of a pandemic". Man, WestJet used the pandemic to BUY ANOTHER AIRLINE! That's how flush with cash they are.
"The math is there". Ok then, let's see your math. Show us how increasing pilot salaries in Canada to US levels will render flying unaffordable. We're waiting.

[accountant]

"Hold the line!"

(aka, oh crap, we're losing momentum)

@accountant.

I cannot wait for this situation to conclude. I cannot wait for pilots to get paid what they’re worth

And when that happens, please do not disappear from this forum , keep that same energy, keep barking

You're worth a 4% raise to match inflation. Nothing more. When you get that, I can't wait for you to say all the posturing, bitching and complaining, calling the general public asshats, threatening your fellow pilots worth it.

If you get more, you're giving up elsewhere.

3 1/2 week strike.

(7% loss in annual wages, so takes you quite a while to recover with your small gains)....

See you after you're done caving.