John Aaron negotiating public
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, North Shore
John Aaron negotiating public
Thoughts?
Repercussions?
Who tipped off the media?
Does fair and valued mean backstabbing in public?
"You have my word we remain committed to continuing bargaining to reach a fair agreement with you, our valued pilots. "
Valued since when?
Repercussions?
Who tipped off the media?
Does fair and valued mean backstabbing in public?
"You have my word we remain committed to continuing bargaining to reach a fair agreement with you, our valued pilots. "
Valued since when?
Re: John Aaron negotiating public
Well, I think all hope of getting an agreement in place before the strike starts is now gone.
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
Re: John Aaron negotiating public
Pure union busting propaganda. Totally expected and par for the course with WJ management.
Does anyone remember last contract negots, WJ twisted the words of a senior Captain RM, made it sound like we all made 400k+.
It's pure propaganda aimed at public opinion and sowing dissent in our ranks. Don't fall for it. I fully trust our MEC to follow through with the negotiation plan. WJ management is desperate and trying every trick in the book to maintain cheap pilot labour.
Does anyone remember last contract negots, WJ twisted the words of a senior Captain RM, made it sound like we all made 400k+.
It's pure propaganda aimed at public opinion and sowing dissent in our ranks. Don't fall for it. I fully trust our MEC to follow through with the negotiation plan. WJ management is desperate and trying every trick in the book to maintain cheap pilot labour.
Re: John Aaron negotiating public
WestJet's trying to split the pilot group. Trying to buyout high seniority pilots with high wages, which they raised by reducing other areas of the contract.
If they take from one area & reduce another area, its the same cost to the company.
The same trick Air Canada used on its pilots in negotiations. The senior pilots get more pay, the first officers placed on low flat pay.
It worked, the senior pilots took the bait.
How did that work out?
Now Air Canada pilots are lowest paid North American pilots flying wide bodies across the world.
If the Air Canada pilots had stayed together, all their salaries could've gone up.
& they would be better positioned for future negotiations.
Its easier to negotiate small salary increases, then asking for triple.
Air Canada pilots now need to triple many of their salaries to get close to average.
The pilots at Air Canada could've made more over their years, if they didn't divide up during negotiations.
The public thinks pilots are trying to make up for inflation.
Its more than inflation, its decades of cuts to salaries when pilots believed management needed the money to keep the company. This was false.
If they take from one area & reduce another area, its the same cost to the company.
The same trick Air Canada used on its pilots in negotiations. The senior pilots get more pay, the first officers placed on low flat pay.
It worked, the senior pilots took the bait.
How did that work out?
Now Air Canada pilots are lowest paid North American pilots flying wide bodies across the world.
If the Air Canada pilots had stayed together, all their salaries could've gone up.
& they would be better positioned for future negotiations.
Its easier to negotiate small salary increases, then asking for triple.
Air Canada pilots now need to triple many of their salaries to get close to average.
The pilots at Air Canada could've made more over their years, if they didn't divide up during negotiations.
The public thinks pilots are trying to make up for inflation.
Its more than inflation, its decades of cuts to salaries when pilots believed management needed the money to keep the company. This was false.
-
- Rank 7
- Posts: 656
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 9:58 am
Re: John Aaron negotiating public
An internal memo, leaked to the media released online this morning.
Company was trying to go around the MEC & ALPA to get a deal.
The management may have sent it directly to the media to gain public support.
If the media had ethics, they wouldn't do a release of private negotiations without ALPA approval.
Re: John Aaron negotiating public
Re: John Aaron negotiating public
I don't know the details of the proposals, but to hear that the necessary wage increases would be subsidized by concessions is repugnant.
Wages here are the issue. They are substandard and there is ZERO need for employees to concede in order to subsidize the employer's shortcomings for bringing wages to standard.
This is the insidious, decades-long mentality that thankfully got completely annihilated at AC with the "employee funded" flat rate proposal.
I'm very impressed at ALPA's command of this at the table.
Well done!
Wages here are the issue. They are substandard and there is ZERO need for employees to concede in order to subsidize the employer's shortcomings for bringing wages to standard.
This is the insidious, decades-long mentality that thankfully got completely annihilated at AC with the "employee funded" flat rate proposal.
I'm very impressed at ALPA's command of this at the table.
Well done!
- rookiepilot
- Rank 11
- Posts: 4403
- Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:50 pm
Re: John Aaron negotiating public
Now that is funny. Media with ethics.
Most media people are bloodsucking scumbags who would sell their own mothers to get a story.
Lower that politicians in my book.
Re: John Aaron negotiating public
It was written in a way that it was supposed to get leaked. It's all a part of their game and it's not working at all in their favor. Check social media and people are ripping the company apart. There are some mad people but they will always exist.
Re: John Aaron negotiating public
Misinformation spread by the media & company.
Pilots should learn to defend themselves with passengers and staff who attack them on greedy airline pilot stories.
Individual pilots never talk to media.
ALPA MEC should educate public on the lies of high salary & not working most the month
Explain that it can take 10 years to reach WestJet, 13 years to be a captain, 12 more years to reach the top salary
35 years in aviation, plus $100,000 to get a license & $50,000 for a college or university degree
"WestJet pilots to strike because $300K a year ain't enough
"According to industry sources, the average WestJet pilot earns $225,000 per year while working 16 days a month.
"That is hardly poverty wages, that is hardly making ends meet for the vast majority of Canadians for whom air travel is an expensive luxury.
https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnis ... int-enough
"Did WestJet pilots reject $300K+ salaries?
https://globalnews.ca/news/9704002/west ... ease-memo/
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/ ... -1.6847023
Pilots should learn to defend themselves with passengers and staff who attack them on greedy airline pilot stories.
Individual pilots never talk to media.
ALPA MEC should educate public on the lies of high salary & not working most the month
Explain that it can take 10 years to reach WestJet, 13 years to be a captain, 12 more years to reach the top salary
35 years in aviation, plus $100,000 to get a license & $50,000 for a college or university degree
"WestJet pilots to strike because $300K a year ain't enough
"According to industry sources, the average WestJet pilot earns $225,000 per year while working 16 days a month.
"That is hardly poverty wages, that is hardly making ends meet for the vast majority of Canadians for whom air travel is an expensive luxury.
https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnis ... int-enough
"Did WestJet pilots reject $300K+ salaries?
https://globalnews.ca/news/9704002/west ... ease-memo/
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/ ... -1.6847023
- rookiepilot
- Rank 11
- Posts: 4403
- Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:50 pm
Re: John Aaron negotiating public
You guys really don’t get it. Do you.
Your enemy isn’t WJ or AC.
Its your government that pushes too much immigration to address failing demographics, but won’t build housing, because boomers like their house going up in value every year. They vote more than anyone, too. Renters, first time buyers? You don’t vote, pal.
This is why you can’t, and won’t, catch up…..
You should.
Oh, governments LOVE inflation.
Your enemy isn’t WJ or AC.
Its your government that pushes too much immigration to address failing demographics, but won’t build housing, because boomers like their house going up in value every year. They vote more than anyone, too. Renters, first time buyers? You don’t vote, pal.
This is why you can’t, and won’t, catch up…..
You should.
Oh, governments LOVE inflation.
Re: John Aaron negotiating public
Corporations and government collude with each other.
Probably calling each other every day talking about how the corporations can pay off the MP's and how the governments can make policy decisions to keep wages low. Then publicly they act like they are against each other.
The big difference is corporations are clear, they answer to share holders. Things are somewhat face value.
Politicians on the other hand, say they represent the people. Two faced lies constantly. They are the biggest enemy. It's insane it's clear as daylight how JT has made the middle class way worse off since he has been in power. He has policy that is indisputably making life more expensive for the middle class. Yet he was able to win an election not long ago.
Until people realize you don't need a federal government to provide for you we will remain in this trend. Federal gov should really have a couple mandates, national security/ defence and energy. Yet this is the only role they choose to neglect.
Taxes should be cut in half, government should be half the size, and our services should also be half the budget. Stop giving control to people who rob us and give us a small fraction back in shitty programs.
Probably calling each other every day talking about how the corporations can pay off the MP's and how the governments can make policy decisions to keep wages low. Then publicly they act like they are against each other.
The big difference is corporations are clear, they answer to share holders. Things are somewhat face value.
Politicians on the other hand, say they represent the people. Two faced lies constantly. They are the biggest enemy. It's insane it's clear as daylight how JT has made the middle class way worse off since he has been in power. He has policy that is indisputably making life more expensive for the middle class. Yet he was able to win an election not long ago.
Until people realize you don't need a federal government to provide for you we will remain in this trend. Federal gov should really have a couple mandates, national security/ defence and energy. Yet this is the only role they choose to neglect.
Taxes should be cut in half, government should be half the size, and our services should also be half the budget. Stop giving control to people who rob us and give us a small fraction back in shitty programs.
Re: John Aaron negotiating public
I sent the reporter a letter and some links to pilot pay sites, we shall see what he comes up with