Is WestJet an essential service, where the government can mandate striking pilots back to work?

[CanadaAir]

Video Interview with former Air Canada executive Dee history of pilot strikes in Canada

“Big difference between 1998 & today, the ability for government to intervene may be limited given court decisions”

“The possibility of being legislated back to work, you think would be a challenge

“We’ve got a minority government situation.. where the liberal party relies on the NDP for its support

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/here-s-what ... -1.1921574

[HFNav]

2023 WestJet ALPA MEC sent out a notice the government found WJ pilots were not essential service

Since then the liberal government announced new anti-replacement-worker legislation

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/c-58-a ... -1.7026692

Expect NDP & liberals government to not require Encore pilots back to fly

Encore pilots are first pilot group in decades who can strike without government laws undermining them

[cdnavater]

2023 WestJet ALPA MEC sent out a notice the government found WJ pilots were not essential service

Since then the liberal government announced new anti-replacement-worker legislation

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/c-58-a ... -1.7026692

Expect NDP & liberals government to not require Encore pilots back to fly

Encore pilots are first pilot group in decades who can strike without government laws undermining them

Bill C-58 has not received royal assent and does not come into effect until 18 months after that date, still another reading on the books at the commons, has not yet made it to the senate for it’s first reading never mind the third. It years away from passing

[acountant]

Wow a lot of information here I wasn't aware of

Sounds like with a minority NDP government and ALPA, Canadian pilots should be making huge gains with their ability to strike.

Go Canada GO!

[bobcaygeon]

Or WJ just locks them out like they did the AME's. WJ's only error is they didn't force things in January because pilots don't like the cold and their Christmas visa bills need to be paid.

[Tbayer2021]

Or WJ just locks them out like they did the AME's. WJ's only error is they didn't force things in January because pilots don't like the cold and their Christmas visa bills need to be paid.

I don't think it would be the same decision for the company to lock its pilots out. I believe it was prudent for the company to lock out the AMEs because they could maintain most of the operation with 3rd party mechanics. Did no one notice the slew of ads here for 737 mechanics the months prior to the lockout announcement? The same simply cannot be accomplished with pilots.

[sarg]

Or WJ just locks them out like they did the AME's. WJ's only error is they didn't force things in January because pilots don't like the cold and their Christmas visa bills need to be paid.

I don't think it would be the same decision for the company to lock its pilots out. I believe it was prudent for the company to lock out the AMEs because they could maintain most of the operation with 3rd party mechanics. Did no one notice the slew of ads here for 737 mechanics the months prior to the lockout announcement? The same simply cannot be accomplished with pilots.

I doubt they would have been able to keep even 25% of the operations going. Just because ads were run doesn't mean that there was a lot of uptake, in fact if they ads were run for a long time I would almost guarantee that there wasn't a lot of uptake. Do you really think that there are a lot of unemployed or under employed B737NG endorsed AMEs floating around Canada.

[Canadaflyer46]

Or WJ just locks them out like they did the AME's. WJ's only error is they didn't force things in January because pilots don't like the cold and their Christmas visa bills need to be paid.

I don't think it would be the same decision for the company to lock its pilots out. I believe it was prudent for the company to lock out the AMEs because they could maintain most of the operation with 3rd party mechanics. Did no one notice the slew of ads here for 737 mechanics the months prior to the lockout announcement? The same simply cannot be accomplished with pilots.

I doubt they would have been able to keep even 25% of the operations going. Just because ads were run doesn't mean that there was a lot of uptake, in fact if they ads were run for a long time I would almost guarantee that there wasn't a lot of uptake. Do you really think that there are a lot of unemployed or under employed B737NG endorsed AMEs floating around Canada.

100%. Make no mistake, when the AMEs are locked out for the second time after this upcoming ‘no’ vote, the operation will be essentially grounded if a deal isn’t done before the deadline. AMEs are a tight knot group, I’d expect everything to be very very thorough and slow going at any third party AMO contracted out for WestJet.

[Tbayer2021]

Or WJ just locks them out like they did the AME's. WJ's only error is they didn't force things in January because pilots don't like the cold and their Christmas visa bills need to be paid.

I don't think it would be the same decision for the company to lock its pilots out. I believe it was prudent for the company to lock out the AMEs because they could maintain most of the operation with 3rd party mechanics. Did no one notice the slew of ads here for 737 mechanics the months prior to the lockout announcement? The same simply cannot be accomplished with pilots.

I doubt they would have been able to keep even 25% of the operations going. Just because ads were run doesn't mean that there was a lot of uptake, in fact if they ads were run for a long time I would almost guarantee that there wasn't a lot of uptake. Do you really think that there are a lot of unemployed or under employed B737NG endorsed AMEs floating around Canada.

I'm not going to speculate on whether there are or not, but there sure have been lots of ads. More posted today.........

[JBI]

Or WJ just locks them out like they did the AME's. WJ's only error is they didn't force things in January because pilots don't like the cold and their Christmas visa bills need to be paid.

I don't think it would be the same decision for the company to lock its pilots out. I believe it was prudent for the company to lock out the AMEs because they could maintain most of the operation with 3rd party mechanics. Did no one notice the slew of ads here for 737 mechanics the months prior to the lockout announcement? The same simply cannot be accomplished with pilots.

For the 737 pilots, yes. For the Q400 pilots, no. The 737 is already covering a lot of former Encore routes, it's easy to charter additional aircraft and there are management pilots current on the Q400. Hopefully we don't ever need to find out who's right, but I would opine that the operation would run smoother (% of pax who get to/from where they need to) with the Encore pilots locked out than if/when the AMEs get locked out.

[HFNav]

The British Columbia Labour Relations Code prohibits employers from using replacement workers, whether paid or not. In British Columbia, a replacement worker is anyone who is assigned to do the work of an employee who is on strike or locked out and who:

• is hired after the union and employer start bargaining
• is an employee or manager who normally works in a different work location
• is an employee who is transferred to the work location where the strike or lockout is happening after the union and employer start bargaining
• is provided by another person (for example, a contractor)

During a strike or lockout (job action), an employer often continues to run its business or operation. For example, it might ask managers to do some of the work of the employees in the bargaining unit that is on strike or locked out. People who do that work are referred to as replacement workers.

However, in order to protect the integrity and viability of the bargaining unit, the employer’s use of certain types of replacement workers is restricted. A violation of these restrictions, even a relatively minor one, is an unfair labour practice.

https://www.bclaws.gov.bc.ca/civix/docu ... #section68




MPs unanimously pass legislation banning replacement workers | National Post

OTTAWA — Cheers erupted in the House of Commons on Monday after MPs of all stripes, including Conservatives, unanimously voted in favour of legislation to ban replacement workers used during strikes and lock-outs in federally regulated workplaces.

Conservative Leader said in a speech last month that his party supported the legislation because “working people have the right to bargain and fight for wage increases that they need in order to keep up with the galloping inflation that has ripped them off.”

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/ ... of-commons

[Ruger Princess]

Conservative Leader said in a speech last month that his party supported the legislation because “working people have the right to bargain and fight for wage increases that they need in order to keep up with the galloping inflation that has ripped them off.”

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/ ... of-commons
[/quote]

- that's because Conservatives are the only common sensed people left in the house.

[Tbayer2021]

Conservative Leader said in a speech last month that his party supported the legislation because “working people have the right to bargain and fight for wage increases that they need in order to keep up with the galloping inflation that has ripped them off.”

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/ ... of-commons

- that's because Conservatives are the only common sensed people left in the house.
[/quote]

I'm not a fan of the unchecked immigration that the liberals are allowing, further driving down labour's leverage. But let's no pretend like they've been legislating anyone back to work like conservatives would happily do and have done.

[rookiepilot]

Conservative Leader said in a speech last month that his party supported the legislation because “working people have the right to bargain and fight for wage increases that they need in order to keep up with the galloping inflation that has ripped them off.”

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/ ... of-commons

- that's because Conservatives are the only common sensed people left in the house.

I'm not a fan of the unchecked immigration that the liberals are allowing, further driving down labour's leverage. But let's no pretend like they've been legislating anyone back to work like conservatives would happily do and have done.
[/quote]

Just curious. If TTC had gone out on strike, would you legislate them back? Wonder where the right line is.

[Tbayer2021]

Conservative Leader said in a speech last month that his party supported the legislation because “working people have the right to bargain and fight for wage increases that they need in order to keep up with the galloping inflation that has ripped them off.”

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/ ... of-commons

- that's because Conservatives are the only common sensed people left in the house.

I'm not a fan of the unchecked immigration that the liberals are allowing, further driving down labour's leverage. But let's no pretend like they've been legislating anyone back to work like conservatives would happily do and have done.


Just curious. If TTC had gone out on strike, would you legislate them back? Wonder where the right line is.

Not sure if this question is directed at me or RP. But I personally wouldn't legislate them or anyone back to work. Was pretty happy when I saw the teachers giving Doug Ford the middle finger when he legislated them back.

My point was that the liberals, for all their faults, haven't shown any interest in legislating anyone back to work so far. RP's comments saying that conservatives are the only ones with any common sense seems to be forgetting that fact.

[rookiepilot]

- that's because Conservatives are the only common sensed people left in the house.

I'm not a fan of the unchecked immigration that the liberals are allowing, further driving down labour's leverage. But let's no pretend like they've been legislating anyone back to work like conservatives would happily do and have done.


Just curious. If TTC had gone out on strike, would you legislate them back? Wonder where the right line is.

Not sure if this question is directed at me or RP. But I personally wouldn't legislate them or anyone back to work. Was pretty happy when I saw the teachers giving Doug Ford the middle finger when he legislated them back.

My point was that the liberals, for all their faults, haven't shown any interest in legislating anyone back to work so far. RP's comments saying that conservatives are the only ones with any common sense seems to be forgetting that fact.

What about medical staff? Police?

[Tbayer2021]

I'm not a fan of the unchecked immigration that the liberals are allowing, further driving down labour's leverage. But let's no pretend like they've been legislating anyone back to work like conservatives would happily do and have done.


Just curious. If TTC had gone out on strike, would you legislate them back? Wonder where the right line is.

Not sure if this question is directed at me or RP. But I personally wouldn't legislate them or anyone back to work. Was pretty happy when I saw the teachers giving Doug Ford the middle finger when he legislated them back.

My point was that the liberals, for all their faults, haven't shown any interest in legislating anyone back to work so far. RP's comments saying that conservatives are the only ones with any common sense seems to be forgetting that fact.

What about medical staff? Police?

Whats the point you're trying to arrive at? See if there is any hypocrisy in my views? If an industry knows their labour will be legislated back to work, what incentive do they have in negotiating in good faith? Are nurses paid anywhere near what they should be? No! Probably in large part due to the fact they can't strike. Remove that limitation and you'll see how quickly things change. Would there be some pain along the way? Absolutely!

[rookiepilot]

I am wrestling with where the line should be, i am not sure.

If by your stance, I take as no back to work laws, no anti scab laws, whats any union in an essential service, lets take CN rail for example, for ever bargaining in good faith when they can shut the country down? They own the tracks, too. Imagine if under your scenario, CP struck at the same time.

My feelings on unions are mixed. Some are obviously good. Some seem to be straying into literally antisemitism these days — with zero repercussions. Is this part of their mandate?

Westjet as an essential service? What a joke. Uh, no.

[Tbayer2021]

I am wrestling with where the line should be, i am not sure.

If by your stance, I take as no back to work laws, no anti scab laws, whats any union in an essential service, lets take CN rail for example, for ever bargaining in good faith when they can shut the country down? They own the tracks, too. Imagine if under your scenario, CP struck at the same time.

My feelings on unions are mixed. Some are obviously good. Some seem to be straying into literally antisemitism these days — with zero repercussions. Is this part of their mandate?

Westjet as an essential service? What a joke. Uh, no.

The line's location varies depending on who you ask, of course. I'm sure every owner of every unionized company would love to hear they weren't allowed to strike. We have no shortage of examples of what happens when the company/industry knows their workers can't strike. Maybe we should find out what happens when more labour groups are allowed to strike.

Westjet as an essential service? What a joke. Uh, no.

That was the whole point of the legal challenge ALPA requested early during their negotiations. Had they left it to the 11th hour, the company may have sought such protection from the government. Strategies would have changed had the answer been that yes, they were considered an essential service.

[Ruger Princess]

- that's because Conservatives are the only common sensed people left in the house.

I'm not a fan of the unchecked immigration that the liberals are allowing, further driving down labour's leverage. But let's no pretend like they've been legislating anyone back to work like conservatives would happily do and have done.


Just curious. If TTC had gone out on strike, would you legislate them back? Wonder where the right line is.

Not sure if this question is directed at me or RP. But I personally wouldn't legislate them or anyone back to work. Was pretty happy when I saw the teachers giving Doug Ford the middle finger when he legislated them back.

My point was that the liberals, for all their faults, haven't shown any interest in legislating anyone back to work so far. RP's comments saying that conservatives are the only ones with any common sense seems to be forgetting that fact.

Not forgetting anything. Good govt (I'm only 47) should be small no matter the stripe, give good administration (because truly they are only the administrators of a company/business called Canada) and should be "due unto Caesar..." situation.

Which means people have no reason to strike. Businesses can't get away with much. Hence regulation. And let's not get into the chokehold that Trudeau did to AC. Like you haven't forgotten 2020-2023 have you?!

I have never (minus 10 years being a kid) seen this amount of striking. Ever!

I've worked for a union that wouldn't even let me put a box in the garbage for the other "co-habit" group in our area. That's nuts. I also don't work under a union.

Like Rookie, I have mixed feelings. I think what started and is sometimes good and honourable to an union, have had some turned greedy. The Ontario teachers?! Do you know how much that Union owns?! They only just sold their share in Maple leaf sports and entertainment.

They have enough money to have everyone retire in gold-plated houses. And they still want more! 247B in net assets. Look them up if you don't believe me. I've got a close family member that is under them. This info is from their union as of 2023.

Also, As a mom of 3 kids, I can tell you how much we spend on "extra fees" for "fun" items so you can tell me how you have to extend testing because you didn't have "enough time." But I'm def sidetracking. No hate on teachers or any other unionized entitiy. But I like I'm not part of one under this govt. Crooked all the way.

Like I've never seen it so bad. Gratitude goes a long way and if you're treated like garbage, be better towards yourself and go somewhere better. Pretty easy. But then I'm stubborn like that.

[Dry Guy]

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say. Could you please summarize?

[rookiepilot]

The British Columbia Labour Relations Code prohibits employers from using replacement workers, whether paid or not. In British Columbia, a replacement worker is anyone who is assigned to do the work of an employee who is on strike or locked out and who:

• is hired after the union and employer start bargaining
• is an employee or manager who normally works in a different work location
• is an employee who is transferred to the work location where the strike or lockout is happening after the union and employer start bargaining
• is provided by another person (for example, a contractor)

During a strike or lockout (job action), an employer often continues to run its business or operation. For example, it might ask managers to do some of the work of the employees in the bargaining unit that is on strike or locked out. People who do that work are referred to as replacement workers.

However, in order to protect the integrity and viability of the bargaining unit, the employer’s use of certain types of replacement workers is restricted. A violation of these restrictions, even a relatively minor one, is an unfair labour practice.

https://www.bclaws.gov.bc.ca/civix/docu ... #section68




MPs unanimously pass legislation banning replacement workers | National Post

OTTAWA — Cheers erupted in the House of Commons on Monday after MPs of all stripes, including Conservatives, unanimously voted in favour of legislation to ban replacement workers used during strikes and lock-outs in federally regulated workplaces.

Conservative Leader said in a speech last month that his party supported the legislation because “working people have the right to bargain and fight for wage increases that they need in order to keep up with the galloping inflation that has ripped them off.”

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/ ... of-commons

What happened today?

Sucks you who trusted the Liberals to protect you.

[5degrees]

The British Columbia Labour Relations Code prohibits employers from using replacement workers, whether paid or not. In British Columbia, a replacement worker is anyone who is assigned to do the work of an employee who is on strike or locked out and who:

• is hired after the union and employer start bargaining
• is an employee or manager who normally works in a different work location
• is an employee who is transferred to the work location where the strike or lockout is happening after the union and employer start bargaining
• is provided by another person (for example, a contractor)

During a strike or lockout (job action), an employer often continues to run its business or operation. For example, it might ask managers to do some of the work of the employees in the bargaining unit that is on strike or locked out. People who do that work are referred to as replacement workers.

However, in order to protect the integrity and viability of the bargaining unit, the employer’s use of certain types of replacement workers is restricted. A violation of these restrictions, even a relatively minor one, is an unfair labour practice.

https://www.bclaws.gov.bc.ca/civix/docu ... #section68




MPs unanimously pass legislation banning replacement workers | National Post

OTTAWA — Cheers erupted in the House of Commons on Monday after MPs of all stripes, including Conservatives, unanimously voted in favour of legislation to ban replacement workers used during strikes and lock-outs in federally regulated workplaces.

Conservative Leader said in a speech last month that his party supported the legislation because “working people have the right to bargain and fight for wage increases that they need in order to keep up with the galloping inflation that has ripped them off.”

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/ ... of-commons

What happened today?

Sucks you who trusted the Liberals to protect you.

There's a provision that can be used to force the first CBA into arbitration. Are you suggesting that PP or some other con would be any better ? Also what's todays case have to do with replacement workers?

[rookiepilot]

The British Columbia Labour Relations Code prohibits employers from using replacement workers, whether paid or not. In British Columbia, a replacement worker is anyone who is assigned to do the work of an employee who is on strike or locked out and who:

• is hired after the union and employer start bargaining
• is an employee or manager who normally works in a different work location
• is an employee who is transferred to the work location where the strike or lockout is happening after the union and employer start bargaining
• is provided by another person (for example, a contractor)

During a strike or lockout (job action), an employer often continues to run its business or operation. For example, it might ask managers to do some of the work of the employees in the bargaining unit that is on strike or locked out. People who do that work are referred to as replacement workers.

However, in order to protect the integrity and viability of the bargaining unit, the employer’s use of certain types of replacement workers is restricted. A violation of these restrictions, even a relatively minor one, is an unfair labour practice.

https://www.bclaws.gov.bc.ca/civix/docu ... #section68




MPs unanimously pass legislation banning replacement workers | National Post

OTTAWA — Cheers erupted in the House of Commons on Monday after MPs of all stripes, including Conservatives, unanimously voted in favour of legislation to ban replacement workers used during strikes and lock-outs in federally regulated workplaces.

Conservative Leader said in a speech last month that his party supported the legislation because “working people have the right to bargain and fight for wage increases that they need in order to keep up with the galloping inflation that has ripped them off.”

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/ ... of-commons

What happened today?

Sucks you who trusted the Liberals to protect you.

There's a provision that can be used to force the first CBA into arbitration. Are you suggesting that PP or some other con would be any better ? Also what's todays case have to do with replacement workers?

Who is the dumbass who would agree to that?

Seriously….Do you guys have anyone standing up for you?

20 bucks says they will be quick to order the AC pilots back to work too.

[JustaCanadian]

Oh thats right. I remember, the liberals had a minister of the middle class, but then eliminated that position. Liberals believe in elites and slave class.

They had the choice to stay out, but then wanted to flex that power because asking to keep up with inflation is an unacceptable view.