Our turn to strike ?

[Fullflaps]

With the contract not being followed anymore, what holds us from striking ? Seems like it worked with WJ.

[QKZXKV]

The right to strike was signed away in the 2019 MOS

[rudder]

With the contract not being followed anymore, what holds us from striking ? Seems like it worked with WJ.

There is no right to strike or lockout at Jazz until after 2035.

The equivalent action to strike is simply to resign.

[canadian_aviator_4]

With the contract not being followed anymore, what holds us from striking ? Seems like it worked with WJ.

There is no right to strike or lockout at Jazz until after 2035.

The equivalent action to strike is simply to resign.

Jazz has without a doubt the worst contract in the industry solely based on non-negotiable till 2035. Shame on the pilots who voted it in, only to abandon jazz asap to go to AC….. A dental plan is not going to pay my mortgage.

[Malfunction]

I cant believe how incompetent jazz mec is.. they forced this contract on us, now we don't get AC flow and we miss 3-4 normal bargaining intervals. Wow it's almost like Jazz Mec is useless. I think we need to replace some people at the top.

[rudder]

Flair. Porter. WestJet. Transat. Morningstar. Cargojet. Sunwing.

All of these carriers offer superior compensation, superior career opportunity (non CPA), and possibly superior opportunity to be hired by AC.

The only reason to remain at Jazz is that you are not qualified to be hired by one of these companies or are willing to settle for less.

It isn’t going to change. Accept that and make a choice. Otherwise, stop complaining.

[QKZXKV]

I cant believe how incompetent jazz mec is.. they forced this contract on us, now we don't get AC flow and we miss 3-4 normal bargaining intervals. Wow it's almost like Jazz Mec is useless. I think we need to replace some people at the top.

As I always say, ALPA is ALPA is ALPA. While others drink the cool-aid, I remain a skeptic on their overall usefulness. My personal experience in the past is that they viewed me as their employee and not someone they worked FOR (Jazz MEC in particular).

[Crewbunk]

I cant believe how incompetent jazz mec is.. they forced this contract on us, now we don't get AC flow and we miss 3-4 normal bargaining intervals. Wow it's almost like Jazz Mec is useless. I think we need to replace some people at the top.

I’m unfamiliar with the circumstances. In what way were Jazz pilots “forced”? Did you not have the opportunity to vote?

[QKZXKV]

I cant believe how incompetent jazz mec is.. they forced this contract on us, now we don't get AC flow and we miss 3-4 normal bargaining intervals. Wow it's almost like Jazz Mec is useless. I think we need to replace some people at the top.

I’m unfamiliar with the circumstances. In what way were Jazz pilots “forced”? Did you not have the opportunity to vote?

Sky Regional DOH integration during a period of Layoffs

[Crewbunk]

I cant believe how incompetent jazz mec is.. they forced this contract on us, now we don't get AC flow and we miss 3-4 normal bargaining intervals. Wow it's almost like Jazz Mec is useless. I think we need to replace some people at the top.

I’m unfamiliar with the circumstances. In what way were Jazz pilots “forced”? Did you not have the opportunity to vote?

Sky Regional DOH integration during a period of Layoffs

Yes, I recall that.
Was there no opportunity to vote?

[Malfunction]

Yes I did. But the union sold us on this turd sandwich. Now the only way we get "leverage " is by people leaving. The union "Claude" knows this . This is why we get messages like the last one quoting our future is uncertain.

[Flyerone]

With the contract not being followed anymore, what holds us from striking ? Seems like it worked with WJ.

There is no right to strike or lockout at Jazz until after 2035.

The equivalent action to strike is simply to resign.

What fullflaps is trying to say is that since the contract is not being followed by one party, why are Jazz pilots still following it ? It's a one way contract now ? If they are not honoring it, who says the pilots have to ?

[QKZXKV]

I’m unfamiliar with the circumstances. In what way were Jazz pilots “forced”? Did you not have the opportunity to vote?

Sky Regional DOH integration during a period of Layoffs

Yes, I recall that.
Was there no opportunity to vote?

If I recall correctly there was no vote on Sky, I'm sure others can jump in.

[canadian_aviator_4]

Flair. Porter. WestJet. Transat. Morningstar. Cargojet. Sunwing.

All of these carriers offer superior compensation, superior career opportunity (non CPA), and possibly superior opportunity to be hired by AC.

The only reason to remain at Jazz is that you are not qualified to be hired by one of these companies or are willing to settle for less.

It isn’t going to change. Accept that and make a choice. Otherwise, stop complaining.

Even encore is better. There is a lot of frustration overall by the lack of progress in an environment favouring pilots and contract negotiations.

[Fullflaps]

The right to strike was signed away in the 2019 MOS

U guys r missing the point. Why do WE have to follow the contract when it is not being followed on the other side... the way i see it, it s a breach of contract so....

[yhz41]

Sky Regional DOH integration during a period of Layoffs

Yes, I recall that.
Was there no opportunity to vote?

If I recall correctly there was no vote on Sky, I'm sure others can jump in.

The pilots did not get a vote on the integration of sky. That was forced. They voted on the GGN integration which got them this contract. And people voted yes for it because ALPA sold it to them as "well if we ever integrate with AC they have to take us DOH"...there are still those who believe this today.

[truedude]

The right to strike was signed away in the 2019 MOS

U guys r missing the point. Why do WE have to follow the contract when it is not being followed on the other side... the way i see it, it s a breach of contract so....

First, write full sentences.

There was a time, when to understand such things would have required a trip to the library to look up the Canadian labour code, and labour laws; and it wouldn't have been just any library, it would likely would have been your cities main library. And the books wouldn't have been easy to find, so you would likely have had to consult the card catalog, or even a person who would have led you to such information. And then once you had the books, you would actually have to read them, because there was no search function.

But today, thankfully, all this information is literally at your fingertips. And what do you do with the ability to access vast volumes of information... You spew incomprehensible nonsense, not even bothering to write full sentences--or words for that matter--exposing not only your extreme laziness, but ignorance as well.

The right to take labour action in Canada, can only happen under very specific set of circumstances. As with Westjet, it took 8 months to get there. The company breaching your contract is not one of them, as the labour code offers multiple avenues to have you grievances heard and resolved. And your union is currently perusing those avenues while you waste your time here.

Now, we didn't sign away our right to strike, so much as that we simply entered into a contract until 2035. I did not vote in favour of it, but I do understand the reasoning as to why the union agreed to it. But it is this contract that is actually providing an enormous amount of leverage for our union. It does not work. The company knows it does not work. And eventually thick headed individuals at Air Canada will understand that it does not work. Unfortunately, given their stubbornness at AC, things are going to have to get really bad before it is corrected. And I suspect at that point, someone will lose their job (my money is on the VP of Flight Ops at AC), as someone will need to take the blame for putting AC in this situation.

But as Rudder said, if you are unhappy here, nearly every company in Canada provides a better career path than Jazz. So you are either here because you don't have enough experience to work anywhere else, or... Well there is no or. If you have been here for 5 years or less, you really should be looking elsewhere.

Hope that helps. But if nothing else, trust me on the full sentences.

[pitottubey]

The right to strike was signed away in the 2019 MOS

U guys r missing the point. Why do WE have to follow the contract when it is not being followed on the other side... the way i see it, it s a breach of contract so....

100 percent

[truedude]

Yes, I recall that.
Was there no opportunity to vote?

If I recall correctly there was no vote on Sky, I'm sure others can jump in.

The pilots did not get a vote on the integration of sky. That was forced. They voted on the GGN integration which got them this contract. And people voted yes for it because ALPA sold it to them as "well if we ever integrate with AC they have to take us DOH"...there are still those who believe this today.

No, ALPA never said that. So that is an outright lie. I was there. I saw the roadshows. I talked to the union (or rather was talked to by the union). But at no time was that ever uttered.

The concern was, the CEO of Air Canada was known as a person prepared to take short term pain, to ensure long term lessons were learned. I was prepared to vote it down and let what ever happened happen.

Most people voted on it because it took them either to retirement, or to Air Canada. And for the majority who were here at the time of the vote, have either left to go to Air Canada, or will see their retirement come before the end of the contract.

[Inverted2]

Choosing not to do voluntary overtime would be a good start. My phone rings every day for overtime. I’m not helping them out.

[Fullflaps]

The right to strike was signed away in the 2019 MOS

U guys r missing the point. Why do WE have to follow the contract when it is not being followed on the other side... the way i see it, it s a breach of contract so....

First, write full sentences.

There was a time, when to understand such things would have required a trip to the library to look up the Canadian labour code, and labour laws; and it wouldn't have been just any library, it would likely would have been your cities main library. And the books wouldn't have been easy to find, so you would likely have had to consult the card catalog, or even a person who would have led you to such information. And then once you had the books, you would actually have to read them, because there was no search function.

But today, thankfully, all this information is literally at your fingertips. And what do you do with the ability to access vast volumes of information... You spew incomprehensible nonsense, not even bothering to write full sentences--or words for that matter--exposing not only your extreme laziness, but ignorance as well.

The right to take labour action in Canada, can only happen under very specific set of circumstances. As with Westjet, it took 8 months to get there. The company breaching your contract is not one of them, as the labour code offers multiple avenues to have you grievances heard and resolved. And your union is currently perusing those avenues while you waste your time here.

Now, we didn't sign away our right to strike, so much as that we simply entered into a contract until 2035. I did not vote in favour of it, but I do understand the reasoning as to why the union agreed to it. But it is this contract that is actually providing an enormous amount of leverage for our union. It does not work. The company knows it does not work. And eventually thick headed individuals at Air Canada will understand that it does not work. Unfortunately, given their stubbornness at AC, things are going to have to get really bad before it is corrected. And I suspect at that point, someone will lose their job (my money is on the VP of Flight Ops at AC), as someone will need to take the blame for putting AC in this situation.

But as Rudder said, if you are unhappy here, nearly every company in Canada provides a better career path than Jazz. So you are either here because you don't have enough experience to work anywhere else, or... Well there is no or. If you have been here for 5 years or less, you really should be looking elsewhere.

Hope that helps. But if nothing else, trust me on the full sentences.

Spoken like a true liberal, whats wrong? have you strayed far away from your shepherd ? It s because of pilots like you that canadian pilots will never be paid anywhere close to their american counterpart. Grow some cojones already. The contract is breached, no matter which book u pretend to have read, so....

[CaptDukeNukem]

U guys r missing the point. Why do WE have to follow the contract when it is not being followed on the other side... the way i see it, it s a breach of contract so....

First, write full sentences.

There was a time, when to understand such things would have required a trip to the library to look up the Canadian labour code, and labour laws; and it wouldn't have been just any library, it would likely would have been your cities main library. And the books wouldn't have been easy to find, so you would likely have had to consult the card catalog, or even a person who would have led you to such information. And then once you had the books, you would actually have to read them, because there was no search function.

But today, thankfully, all this information is literally at your fingertips. And what do you do with the ability to access vast volumes of information... You spew incomprehensible nonsense, not even bothering to write full sentences--or words for that matter--exposing not only your extreme laziness, but ignorance as well.

The right to take labour action in Canada, can only happen under very specific set of circumstances. As with Westjet, it took 8 months to get there. The company breaching your contract is not one of them, as the labour code offers multiple avenues to have you grievances heard and resolved. And your union is currently perusing those avenues while you waste your time here.

Now, we didn't sign away our right to strike, so much as that we simply entered into a contract until 2035. I did not vote in favour of it, but I do understand the reasoning as to why the union agreed to it. But it is this contract that is actually providing an enormous amount of leverage for our union. It does not work. The company knows it does not work. And eventually thick headed individuals at Air Canada will understand that it does not work. Unfortunately, given their stubbornness at AC, things are going to have to get really bad before it is corrected. And I suspect at that point, someone will lose their job (my money is on the VP of Flight Ops at AC), as someone will need to take the blame for putting AC in this situation.

But as Rudder said, if you are unhappy here, nearly every company in Canada provides a better career path than Jazz. So you are either here because you don't have enough experience to work anywhere else, or... Well there is no or. If you have been here for 5 years or less, you really should be looking elsewhere.

Hope that helps. But if nothing else, trust me on the full sentences.

Spoken like a true liberal, whats wrong? have you strayed far away from your shepherd ? It s because of pilots like you that canadian pilots will never be paid anywhere close to their american counterpart. Grow some cojones already. The contract is breached, no matter which book u pretend to have read, so....

Man. There’s 3 things off topic on a flightdeck, and avcanada. Politics, religion and sexual orientation. Not saying “woke” up. But shit dude, you’re not helping anything by blaming everyone else. Grow up.

And now you’re making me break my own rules. People voted the liberals in, as they voted for a 17 year contract at jazz. If you’re unhappy with the current government and nothing is changing, change countries. Same could be said at airlines.

Cheers, I owe you a beer for breaking my own laws.

[Fullflaps]

First, write full sentences.

There was a time, when to understand such things would have required a trip to the library to look up the Canadian labour code, and labour laws; and it wouldn't have been just any library, it would likely would have been your cities main library. And the books wouldn't have been easy to find, so you would likely have had to consult the card catalog, or even a person who would have led you to such information. And then once you had the books, you would actually have to read them, because there was no search function.

But today, thankfully, all this information is literally at your fingertips. And what do you do with the ability to access vast volumes of information... You spew incomprehensible nonsense, not even bothering to write full sentences--or words for that matter--exposing not only your extreme laziness, but ignorance as well.

The right to take labour action in Canada, can only happen under very specific set of circumstances. As with Westjet, it took 8 months to get there. The company breaching your contract is not one of them, as the labour code offers multiple avenues to have you grievances heard and resolved. And your union is currently perusing those avenues while you waste your time here.

Now, we didn't sign away our right to strike, so much as that we simply entered into a contract until 2035. I did not vote in favour of it, but I do understand the reasoning as to why the union agreed to it. But it is this contract that is actually providing an enormous amount of leverage for our union. It does not work. The company knows it does not work. And eventually thick headed individuals at Air Canada will understand that it does not work. Unfortunately, given their stubbornness at AC, things are going to have to get really bad before it is corrected. And I suspect at that point, someone will lose their job (my money is on the VP of Flight Ops at AC), as someone will need to take the blame for putting AC in this situation.

But as Rudder said, if you are unhappy here, nearly every company in Canada provides a better career path than Jazz. So you are either here because you don't have enough experience to work anywhere else, or... Well there is no or. If you have been here for 5 years or less, you really should be looking elsewhere.

Hope that helps. But if nothing else, trust me on the full sentences.

Spoken like a true liberal, whats wrong? have you strayed far away from your shepherd ? It s because of pilots like you that canadian pilots will never be paid anywhere close to their american counterpart. Grow some cojones already. The contract is breached, no matter which book u pretend to have read, so....

Man. There’s 3 things off topic on a flightdeck, and avcanada. Politics, religion and sexual orientation. Not saying “woke” up. But shit dude, you’re not helping anything by blaming everyone else. Grow up.

And now you’re making me break my own rules. People voted the liberals in, as they voted for a 17 year contract at jazz. If you’re unhappy with the current government and nothing is changing, change countries. Same could be said at airlines.

Cheers, I owe you a beer for breaking my own laws.

Mannn what contract ? Stop saying contract ..There is no contract anymore, what dont u understand ? I wish i could sign a contract with some of you guys, you'd be penniless and still be yelling yeah but the contract says...! Haha

[CaptDukeNukem]

Spoken like a true liberal, whats wrong? have you strayed far away from your shepherd ? It s because of pilots like you that canadian pilots will never be paid anywhere close to their american counterpart. Grow some cojones already. The contract is breached, no matter which book u pretend to have read, so....

Man. There’s 3 things off topic on a flightdeck, and avcanada. Politics, religion and sexual orientation. Not saying “woke” up. But shit dude, you’re not helping anything by blaming everyone else. Grow up.

And now you’re making me break my own rules. People voted the liberals in, as they voted for a 17 year contract at jazz. If you’re unhappy with the current government and nothing is changing, change countries. Same could be said at airlines.

Cheers, I owe you a beer for breaking my own laws.

Mannn what contract ? Stop saying contract ..There is no contract anymore, what dont u understand ? I wish i could sign a contract with some of you guys, you'd be penniless and still be yelling yeah but the contract says...! Haha

I understand perfectly well. Which is why I left. You’re still sitting there twiddling your thumbs. Have a good day sir.

[yhz41]

If I recall correctly there was no vote on Sky, I'm sure others can jump in.

The pilots did not get a vote on the integration of sky. That was forced. They voted on the GGN integration which got them this contract. And people voted yes for it because ALPA sold it to them as "well if we ever integrate with AC they have to take us DOH"...there are still those who believe this today.

No, ALPA never said that. So that is an outright lie. I was there. I saw the roadshows. I talked to the union (or rather was talked to by the union). But at no time was that ever uttered.

The concern was, the CEO of Air Canada was known as a person prepared to take short term pain, to ensure long term lessons were learned. I was prepared to vote it down and let what ever happened happen.

Most people voted on it because it took them either to retirement, or to Air Canada. And for the majority who were here at the time of the vote, have either left to go to Air Canada, or will see their retirement come before the end of the contract.

You're one of few who don't see it that way.