Airspace questions

[tanxiaoneng]

Hey folks,

I'm currently doing training in the Winnipeg area, and just bumped into 3 airspace questions if anyone would shed lights on this (sure would ask my instructor as well when we meet)

1. what is the airspace at St. Malo (6 miles south of CPJ6)? Upon checking the VNC and VTA I would say Class G from ground to 18000, and obviously class A from FL180 to FL600. But upon checking the Lo chart, this airspace is still designated as controlled as it's a white open area. Why?

2. for places labeled as such: E6500ASL, E7000ASL, etc.. Does it imply Class B over 12500 in these regions?

3. Looking at a random airport like CYRL, it's a class E aerodrome no problem, but it also says "CZ excluded below 700AGL". What does it mean? Nowhere did I see it's a control zone anyways.

Much appreciated the help!
Cheers,

[Conflicting Traffic]

1. what is the airspace at St. Malo (6 miles south of CPJ6)? Upon checking the VNC and VTA I would say Class G from ground to 18000, and obviously class A from FL180 to FL600. But upon checking the Lo chart, this airspace is still designated as controlled as it's a white open area. Why?

Class G to 12,500', then Class B to FL180, then Class A.

2. for places labeled as such: E6500ASL, E7000ASL, etc.. Does it imply Class B over 12500 in these regions?

Sort of, yes. But it's not implied, it's marked on the chart. The control area boundaries are just so far out from controlled aerodromes that if you're used to operating close to home, or if you operate between controlled aerodromes that aren't all that far apart, you don't cross the boundaries. For example, look about 70 NM North of Winnipeg and you'll see a curved shaded line on the VNC. Inside that boundary, you hit Class B at 12,500'. Outside that boundary, you're in Class G up to FL180. If you fly from Winnipeg to Red Lake along V181, there's Class B at 12,500' the whole way. But if you take a dogleg to the North, you can spend some time with Class G all the way to FL 180.

3. Looking at a random airport like CYRL, it's a class E aerodrome no problem, but it also says "CZ excluded below 700AGL". What does it mean? Nowhere did I see it's a control zone anyways.

"Class E" refers to the airspace, which in this case is a control zone. The dashed circle around Red Lake is what tells you it's a CZ. The type of dash (no little hooks on the end) indicate that it's Class E. However, there's a chunk of the circle that is excluded from the CZ below 700' AGL. It isn't marked clearly on the chart, but the DAH has this to say:

Red Lake, ON:
3.3.4-45 The airspace within the area bounded by a circle of 5 miles radius centred on the following:
N51°03'40.00" W093°47'05.00" (Red Lake, ON - NDB)
Excluding the airspace below 700 ́ AGL south of a line beginning at:
N51°01'47.51" W093°54'25.32" to
N51°02'36.91" W093°49'33.56" to
N51°01'08.66" W093°40'14.77"

I haven't bothered to work out exactly where that line is, but I'm guessing it removes the water aerodrome and the hospital heliport from the CZ.

[photofly]

2. for places labeled as such: E6500ASL, E7000ASL, etc.. Does it imply Class B over 12500 in these regions?

Yes.

The E6500 tells you class E controlled airspace begins at 6500 asl. But class B airspace is defined as all lower level controlled airspace above 12500 MSL. Since the controlled airspace continues upwards from whatever altitude is the base of controlled airspace up to FL600, it is implicit that above 12500 feet the class of airspace there switches from E to B.

[tanxiaoneng]

1. what is the airspace at St. Malo (6 miles south of CPJ6)? Upon checking the VNC and VTA I would say Class G from ground to 18000, and obviously class A from FL180 to FL600. But upon checking the Lo chart, this airspace is still designated as controlled as it's a white open area. Why?

Class G to 12,500', then Class B to FL180, then Class A.

Appreciate the reply! Ok, but in that case I expect to see a label "B12500ASL" in this area and see white and green hatched markings on the Lo chart. I mean they do put such a label in many other places like an area west of CYPG.

3. Looking at a random airport like CYRL, it's a class E aerodrome no problem, but it also says "CZ excluded below 700AGL". What does it mean? Nowhere did I see it's a control zone anyways.

"Class E" refers to the airspace, which in this case is a control zone. The dashed circle around Red Lake is what tells you it's a CZ. The type of dash (no little hooks on the end) indicate that it's Class E. However, there's a chunk of the circle that is excluded from the CZ below 700' AGL. It isn't marked clearly on the chart, but the DAH has this to say:

Red Lake, ON:
3.3.4-45 The airspace within the area bounded by a circle of 5 miles radius centred on the following:
N51°03'40.00" W093°47'05.00" (Red Lake, ON - NDB)
Excluding the airspace below 700 ́ AGL south of a line beginning at:
N51°01'47.51" W093°54'25.32" to
N51°02'36.91" W093°49'33.56" to
N51°01'08.66" W093°40'14.77"

I haven't bothered to work out exactly where that line is, but I'm guessing it removes the water aerodrome and the hospital heliport from the CZ.


Indeed it excludes the water and hospital aerodrome. The DAH includes a lot of info! Just looking at the VNC, it doesn't specify which area is excluded from the CZ, I thought it's the whole area but it wouldn't make sense.

Thanks again!

[tanxiaoneng]

2. for places labeled as such: E6500ASL, E7000ASL, etc.. Does it imply Class B over 12500 in these regions?

Yes.

The E6500 tells you class E controlled airspace begins at 6500 asl. But class B airspace is defined as all lower level controlled airspace above 12500 MSL. Since the controlled airspace continues upwards from whatever altitude is the base of controlled airspace up to FL600, it is implicit that above 12500 feet the class of airspace there switches from E to B.

Yes. Thanks! The Class B coverage is larger than I thought.

[photofly]

Just remember: if it’s (EDIT: low level) controlled airspace, and it’s above 12500 feet, then it must be class B.

[rookiepilot]

Just remember: if it’s controlled airspace, and it’s above 12500 feet, then it must be class B.

So when an SR71 visits us, who do they call up at FL601?

[photofly]

Class G. Ditto for the ISS. No clearance required, but no conflict resolution services are available, either.

[Pratt X 3]

Just remember: if it’s controlled airspace, and it’s above 12500 feet, then it must be class B.

So when an SR71 visits us, who do they call up at FL601?

ASPEN 31 (SR-71): Center, ASPEN 31 requesting FL600.

LA Center: ASPEN 31, if you can get there you can have it.

ASPEN 31: Roger, Descending

[rookiepilot]

Class G. Ditto for the ISS. No clearance required, but no conflict resolution services are available, either.

“ACTPA”

[tanxiaoneng]

Latest update: there is a T-route near St Malo which would make it class E above 2200 AGL