Future AME Discouraged

[frosti]

That’s an option but lower end pension kinda sucks when you have to shift gears at 45. +1 aviation IN CANADA SUCKS

You don't have to shift gears at 45, you can keep going. Even if you decide to call it quits then, you'll at least have the equivalent of the average annual income as a backing to literally go do anything else.

[johnwa]

Don't discourage. Just be objective and realistic. The industry is for a certain kind of people and you myst remain realsitic on topics like shift work, moneytary expecatations and responsibilities. I know young folks who are interested. The problem is not with the industry but this new generation. Many have absolutely no interest in sweat blood and tears, thanks to cell phones and cars at age 17. Consider that.

[Bug_Stomper_01]

Don't discourage. Just be objective and realistic. The industry is for a certain kind of people and you myst remain realsitic on topics like shift work, moneytary expecatations and responsibilities. I know young folks who are interested. The problem is not with the industry but this new generation. Many have absolutely no interest in sweat blood and tears, thanks to cell phones and cars at age 17. Consider that.

Nooooo the problem is the stagnant wages and crap work conditions that have actually worsened since the 1980s, not improved. Canadas pilots and ames make half of what the rest of the developed world pays for equivalent experience. I know this and live it first hand. Johnwa just accepting whatever this “industry” dishes at its work force and blaming the new generation’s work ethic is vomitus talk

[Mmj]

The major airlines are having problems finding guys of all trades but at the same time guys are still laid off and or commuting to keep their jobs even at this point. Wages have really been stagnant with long contracts with still years remaining.

[johnwa]

Just read your reply.
I cannot fully disagree with you as I am in this indiustry myself since 1996. Which makes it long enough to have some credibility.

But the issue is that the only ones complaining about the wages are the ones that are either stuck with it or don't move on to where the sun shines.
I have always diversified and never allowed myself to be limited by my own inability to create the life I am after. The thing is, people who sign up for this underpaid and horrible demanding profession actually agreed with this when they first set their foot into an AME school. I would hope that this generation is waking up from their idea of a perfect and highly paid world of milk and honey because it will be them that has to create the next paradise. Asking for something without being able to equally deliver is what makes this industry so unattractive to many. Everyone wants to make money but no one wants to put in their four years of hardship. It is not the industry. Once you have your 5 years lisensed into it you can go contracting and make all the differeince for yourself. Contract wages are 55.00 and if you actually have a little more than just your M1M2 license you can go higher and sell yourself to the highest bidder. Agencies are struggling now because the engineers finally realized that having an agent is pure choice. When I was a commercial student pilot I was told all about attitude. Attitude plus performance equals altitude. Works for us humans, too.

[Bug_Stomper_01]

Just read your reply.
I cannot fully disagree with you as I am in this indiustry myself since 1996. Which makes it long enough to have some credibility.

But the issue is that the only ones complaining about the wages are the ones that are either stuck with it or don't move on to where the sun shines.
I have always diversified and never allowed myself to be limited by my own inability to create the life I am after. The thing is, people who sign up for this underpaid and horrible demanding profession actually agreed with this when they first set their foot into an AME school. I would hope that this generation is waking up from their idea of a perfect and highly paid world of milk and honey because it will be them that has to create the next paradise. Asking for something without being able to equally deliver is what makes this industry so unattractive to many. Everyone wants to make money but no one wants to put in their four years of hardship. It is not the industry. Once you have your 5 years lisensed into it you can go contracting and make all the differeince for yourself. Contract wages are 55.00 and if you actually have a little more than just your M1M2 license you can go higher and sell yourself to the highest bidder. Agencies are struggling now because the engineers finally realized that having an agent is pure choice. When I was a commercial student pilot I was told all about attitude. Attitude plus performance equals altitude. Works for us humans, too.

The fairytales spun by these colleges and FTU’s are a big part of the problem. Naive students that don’t do their research outside of the self serving hyperbole in the media by industry and colleges aren’t completely to blame for signing up for something advertised completely polar opposite of what it really is.

I for one did move onto greener pastures years ago with my M1/M2/S and TCCA endorsements outside of Canada and make WAY more than anyone can negotiate in Canada. I do run a company inside Canada as well and $55/hr contract was being offered >20 years ago and was even then grossly low. My guys get paid much more than that, you can command more than double that if you are worth it, but how many have that kind of training and experience is a literal hand full in Canada.

The “milk and honey” as you say is not there at all for the majority of the 15000 or so ames in Canada, but the fact that it keeps being shoved in newcomers faces as a reality by industry speaks volumes to who is to blame for a lack of WILLING AME’s to work for what’s offered.
As with anything in life you have to have something to offer to gain something, monetarily or otherwise.
The fact that so many DO have hundreds of thousands of dollars in endorsements, training, skill, knowledge and experience and still can’t command a more appropriate wage and schedule is why so many have dropped out of Canadas flying game or out of the industry altogether.
I am speaking primarily from the VTOL world but for people in the fixed wing game it’s even worse from what I’ve seen and heard from close colleagues.
I stand by what I’ve posted, the industry is in terrible shape in Canada and attrition has never been higher while ATO’ attendance has never been lower. This is not an industry I would suggest to any person to make a primary living at in Canada anymore.

[johnwa]

Positive thoughts. As an AME or pilot ( I am both) we need to set the example. Otherwise leave and give others a chance to replace you successfully. There is a big world out there and enough options for anyone to be happy.

John
https://www.facebook.com/john.wannecke.3
https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-j-wannecke-575738203/

[Pat Richard]

Positive thoughts. As an AME or pilot ( I am both) we need to set the example. Otherwise leave and give others a chance to replace you successfully. There is a big world out there and enough options for anyone to be happy.

John
https://www.facebook.com/john.wannecke.3
https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-j-wannecke-575738203/

So communication about this industry should only be positive or otherwise be quiet and move on? If you had mostly poor, and I'd wager the majority have, negative experiences in this industry you're suggesting they shutup and move on so the enthusiasts can "set the example" for the bs wet dream that some still cling to?

The bullshit narrative doesn't like real world.

How very woke and aerosexual.

[Bug_Stomper_01]

Positive thoughts. As an AME or pilot ( I am both) we need to set the example. Otherwise leave and give others a chance to replace you successfully. There is a big world out there and enough options for anyone to be happy.

John
https://www.facebook.com/john.wannecke.3
https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-j-wannecke-575738203/

Set what example? Being positive about a bad situation? I think the best thing for anyone reading this forum is for people of our experience levels share the good and bad of the industry for newcomers to make informed decisions. I’m not going to sugar coat anything in the current state this industry is in. The majority in this very long and old post speaks largely from the realities I’ve already addressed. You do what you want and set whatever example you like. The truth will always prevail.

[Bug_Stomper_01]

Positive thoughts. As an AME or pilot ( I am both) we need to set the example. Otherwise leave and give others a chance to replace you successfully. There is a big world out there and enough options for anyone to be happy.

John
https://www.facebook.com/john.wannecke.3
https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-j-wannecke-575738203/

So communication about this industry should only be positive or otherwise be quiet and move on? If you had mostly poor, and I'd wager the majority have, negative experiences in this industry you're suggesting they shutup and move on so the enthusiasts can "set the example" for the bs wet dream that some still cling to?

The bullshit narrative doesn't like real world.

How very woke and aerosexual.

There is a large enough group of skilled professionals in industry largely posting on this forum the similar very unpleasant realities we’ve all faced (pilots and ame’s alike).
These topics have been discussed ad nauseam here in Canada on forums like this in the decades that I’ve witnessed.
It’s bordering on pathetic that there’s always the few delusional that are in complete pathological denial supporting the eroding work conditions in Canadas aviation sector.
It’s usually the less successful pilots and ames that rather than acknowledge said experiences of posters and engage in constructive discussion/debate, will post something as thoughtless as “leave the industry” etc. Then again, they’re also the ones defending $55/HR as a CONTRACTOR being adequate pay!

[ludivicchua]

Then again, they’re also the ones defending $55/HR as a CONTRACTOR being adequate pay!

What $55/hr? Maybe in the VTOL world, but most of us are not from that! That industry can only take as much! In the airlines (M2) in Canada, you don't even make $50/hr full-time with decades of experience, licensed, and endorsed. This wage has remained unchanged today since I graduated. You are too generous!

"Contractor" means you have an irregular work! How the f*ck are you gonna survive with this kind of work arrangement? You call this a "job"? Really? I know people who work for AC as contractors. They get paid much less than $55/hr. It's a joke!

I'm still living in Canada but I'm no longer in Aviation. I'm just disgruntled with everything that is going on with this country and this industry that it made me pessimistic and apathetic! I have nothing more to say! Pathetic!

[Bug_Stomper_01]

Then again, they’re also the ones defending $55/HR as a CONTRACTOR being adequate pay!

What $55/hr? Maybe in the VTOL world, but most of us are not from that! That industry can only take as much! In the airlines (M2) in Canada, you don't even make $50/hr full-time with decades of experience, licensed, and endorsed. This wage has remained unchanged today since I graduated. You are too generous!

"Contractor" means you have an irregular work! How the f*ck are you gonna survive with this kind of work arrangement? You call this a "job"? Really? I know people who work for AC as contractors. They get paid much less than $55/hr. It's a joke!

I'm still living in Canada but I'm no longer in Aviation. I'm just disgruntled with everything that is going on with this country and this industry that it made me pessimistic and apathetic! I have nothing more to say! Pathetic!

I can pretty much name my rate in Canada as a contractor with the endorsements I have, but, I don’t enjoy it lol. It used to be a really fun industry 10-15 years ago… now companies are dropping like flys. In less than three years remote, highland, lakelse, universal all threw in the towel. That’s over 100 machines that were repurposed for mostly out of Canada industry. I’ve done some contract in Canada this season but I’m not too impressed with what’s left.

[ludivicchua]

No matter how we express our plight here regarding the industry, it's just going to keep getting swept under the rug! The people in power are going to keep gaslighting you no matter how real and reasonable your concerns are! To be honest with you, I already gave up and I will just disappear in a puff of smoke! It's f*cking helpless! This is all about interest and people have a tendency to keep things the way it is thus maintaining the hierarchy! Do we really uphold meritocracy or are we just double standard? Why do we have a backward system that goes against logic? Maybe it's the latter as the result speaks for itself! Everything that we were told to believe is just a big sham!

[Bug_Stomper_01]

No matter how we express our plight here regarding the industry, it's just going to keep getting swept under the rug! The people in power are going to keep gaslighting you no matter how real and reasonable your concerns are! To be honest with you, I already gave up and I will just disappear in a puff of smoke! It's f*cking helpless! This is all about interest and people have a tendency to keep things the way it is thus maintaining the hierarchy! Do we really uphold meritocracy or are we just double standard? Why do we have a backward system that goes against logic? Maybe it's the latter as the result speaks for itself! Everything that we were told to believe is just a big sham!

That’s the name of the game unfortunately, it’s an extremely small industry and even at this point it’s still an employers market. There will always be some loser willing to work for nothing just to say they work on aircraft

[nrgxlr8tr]

Hate to say it but I get really annoyed when people are overeager to do something because of passion. It puts a downward pressure on wages. We see it in pilots, animal vets, film/acting, social work and education, etc...

[Bug_Stomper_01]

Hate to say it but I get really annoyed when people are overeager to do something because of passion. It puts a downward pressure on wages. We see it in pilots, animal vets, film/acting, social work and education, etc...

That’s a huge problem with the AME world, the fact that employers know it and leverage it on the workforce is the rest of the equation, and the great circle of crap is complete

[ludivicchua]

This job really has nothing good to offer but the reputation of doing a professional job which may have influenced one's decision to pursue and remain in this career. You see, when you have passion for something, you can learn to put them aside or pursue them as a sideline in order for you to do what is practical as you grow up and learn to be responsible. From my experience, it's not hard to do that, but it's harder to let go of ego. "Aircraft Maintenance Engineer" (as you call it) is an Aircraft Mechanic, in other words, an aircraft counterpart of a Car Mechanic. "Maintenance" is maintaining specification, not designing specification, so it is a "Technician" job and really not an "Engineer". A misleading and decorated job title such as this is designed to feed your ego to motivate you. Ever since I left the Aviation industry to work underemployed, everything else is better because that is the practical thing to do, but you have to swallow your ego. When people hear "Aviation", they have a lot of misconceptions about it. Do you care about what they think, or do you care about the reality? It is you who will pay all the price!

This is just self-sabotage! You will sacrifice even your own self-interest for acceptance because it doesn't really feel good to be rejected! We all have ego at varying level, but some people even when driven into a corner will continue to make decisions based on it. They are consumed by it! No matter how impractical this job and the industry is, they will hold onto it! Unbelievable!

[Bug_Stomper_01]

This job really has nothing good to offer but the reputation of doing a professional job which may have influenced one's decision to pursue and remain in this career. You see, when you have passion for something, you can learn to put them aside or pursue them as a sideline in order for you to do what is practical as you grow up and learn to be responsible. From my experience, it's not hard to do that, but it's harder to let go of ego. "Aircraft Maintenance Engineer" (as you call it) is an Aircraft Mechanic, in other words, an aircraft counterpart of a Car Mechanic. "Maintenance" is maintaining specification, not designing specification, so it is a "Technician" job and really not an "Engineer". A misleading and decorated job title such as this is designed to feed your ego to motivate you. Ever since I left the Aviation industry to work underemployed, everything else is better because that is the practical thing to do, but you have to swallow your ego. When people hear "Aviation", they have a lot of misconceptions about it. Do you care about what they think, or do you care about the reality? It is you who will pay all the price!

This is just self-sabotage! You will sacrifice even your own self-interest for acceptance because it doesn't really feel good to be rejected! We all have ego at varying level, but some people even when driven into a corner will continue to make decisions based on it. They are consumed by it! No matter how impractical this job and the industry is, they will hold onto it! Unbelievable!

People are more wise to it than ever, im enjoying watching the self inflicted situation industry has created. I hope they (companies) all pay dearly in coming years for the cesspool they’ve laid on the platter for employees. In some instances it’s literally criminal what they’re doing to employees

[chowda]

This job really has nothing good to offer but the reputation of doing a professional job which may have influenced one's decision to pursue and remain in this career. You see, when you have passion for something, you can learn to put them aside or pursue them as a sideline in order for you to do what is practical as you grow up and learn to be responsible. From my experience, it's not hard to do that, but it's harder to let go of ego. "Aircraft Maintenance Engineer" (as you call it) is an Aircraft Mechanic, in other words, an aircraft counterpart of a Car Mechanic. "Maintenance" is maintaining specification, not designing specification, so it is a "Technician" job and really not an "Engineer". A misleading and decorated job title such as this is designed to feed your ego to motivate you. Ever since I left the Aviation industry to work underemployed, everything else is better because that is the practical thing to do, but you have to swallow your ego. When people hear "Aviation", they have a lot of misconceptions about it. Do you care about what they think, or do you care about the reality? It is you who will pay all the price!

This is just self-sabotage! You will sacrifice even your own self-interest for acceptance because it doesn't really feel good to be rejected! We all have ego at varying level, but some people even when driven into a corner will continue to make decisions based on it. They are consumed by it! No matter how impractical this job and the industry is, they will hold onto it! Unbelievable!

THIS sums up a lot of AME's both past and present.

They feel like theyre special when they tell some chick at a bar that theyre "Aircraft Maintenance Engineers'' because they sure as shit wont impress them with what they make hourly or the schedule they keep to make that wage.

In all honesty, its really just pathetic

[ludivicchua]

The first time I entered the workforce, I was very motivated to do things, to learn things, and I take pleasure on the things I do, all because that was my first-time experience and I feel young (therefore entitled and confident). The thing about passion and creativity is it dies out as you age and become wiser. Try to analyze the life of typical adult employees that drive our economy. Most people in the real world don't like what they do (because who likes to spend long hours working hard as a routine?) and the only motivation that is left of them is survival. That is how I feel now as a 30 year old! I'm not as enthusiastic as I was 10 years ago and no people are! You are creative, passionate, and an effective learner when you are doing it the first time! At some point of their life, they are going to grow up and things are going to get old, and their outlook will change. They will not remain passionate if they are!

Also all people have ego and it is impossible for us to completely get rid of it, even as we become wiser. How does it feel to be rejected, to be sub par, to lose, or to be humiliated? These don't feel good! One thing that made it hard for me to part with Aviation is my ego. The thing is, there are people that are willing to keep doing this job no matter how impractical it is for the professional recognition. They gave in to societal pressure at the expense of their welfare! We humans are mammals and social creatures. You can't really blame people for trying to fit in when their survival rely on the group. We worry about being judged negatively because of this. When they leave Aviation, it's going to put them in that situation, and so because of the anxiety they can't leave! I, on the other hand, made the decision to leave! I've had enough of this self-sabotage!