DEC Jazz

[kiaszceski]

Maybe just ask the training department?

[fixnfly]

Any update on how the DEC candidates are doing? I heard theres a 10% passing rate?

To be fair, a good number of them were flight instructors with fresh atpl’s, so you can’t really expect them to have the decision making skills to go DEC on the RJ flying to some of the busiest airports along the eastern seaboard. I guess it goes to show the quality of DECs that Jazz is hiring at the moment

[Ash Ketchum]

Any update on how the DEC candidates are doing? I heard theres a 10% passing rate?

To be fair, a good number of them were flight instructors with fresh atpl’s, so you can’t really expect them to have the decision making skills to go DEC on the RJ flying to some of the busiest airports along the eastern seaboard. I guess it goes to show the quality of DECs that Jazz is hiring at the moment

I had no idea the pass rate was that low. I guess it's hard to attract experienced candidates with the pay Jazz is offering first year Captains.

[Outlaw58]

Any update on how the DEC candidates are doing? I heard theres a 10% passing rate?

To be fair, a good number of them were flight instructors with fresh atpl’s, so you can’t really expect them to have the decision making skills to go DEC on the RJ flying to some of the busiest airports along the eastern seaboard. I guess it goes to show the quality of DECs that Jazz is hiring at the moment

I had no idea the pass rate was that low. I guess it's hard to attract experienced candidates with the pay Jazz is offering first year Captains.

You still don't have any idea what the pass rate is.

Someone saying "he heard" it was 10% does not make it so. Comment on facts please.

58

[kiaszceski]

For context, the Encore pass rate is a bit above 50% with people having 500 hrs on a 705 and 2000 hrs minimum.
If the DEC are flight instructors the 10% aren't surprising.

That being said, Jazz rescinded the Pilots ad.

FO ad: minimums are CPL+ IATRA + 750 hrs
DEC ad: ATPL, preferred 3000 hours total time, 1000 hours multi-engine turbine time and at least 500 of command time on a multi-engine aircraft.

[rob-air]

An instructors shooting for DEC shows a lack of understanding what they are trying out for. they should go fo, ease through training, put CA in the standing bid on the plane they are training on and get a training date in the spring.

[daedalusx]

It’s down right dangerous to put a 1500 hr Instructor on the left seat of a 705 plane. What the hell were they thinking ?

No experience dealing with busy ATC, high op tempo down in the USA
No experience dealing with deicing and ramp operations.
No experience dealing with NPA with high terrain out West
No experience dealing with shitty contaminated short runways and crosswind.
No experience dealing with wind shear and stormy WX around the Great Lakes and the maritimes.

That fact that a 1500hr instructor would even apply for this position shows how utterly clueless they are. Imagine that paired with a 250 hr wonder cadet on their first pairing post line Indoc going to YYF landing RYW 34 at night on a bad winter night or during the forest fire season.
Truly the definition of the blind leading the blind.

“Oh but they’re really good at memorizing the COM”

[Canadaflyer46]

It’s down right dangerous to put a 1500 hr Instructor on the left seat of a 705 plane. What the hell were they thinking ?

No experience dealing with busy ATC, high op tempo down in the USA
No experience dealing with deicing and ramp operations.
No experience dealing with NPA with high terrain out West
No experience dealing with shitty contaminated short runways and crosswind.
No experience dealing with wind shear and stormy WX around the Great Lakes and the maritimes.

That fact that a 1500hr instructor would even apply for this position shows how utterly clueless they are. Imagine that paired with a 250 hr wonder cadet on their first pairing post line Indoc going to YYF landing RYW 34 at night on a bad winter night or during the forest fire season.
Truly the definition of the blind leading the blind.

“Oh but they’re really good at memorizing the COM”

What’s scary is this the direction airlines are taking in Canada, as opposed to increasing pay to attract experienced candidates.
Unfortunately we all know the only thing that will change this strategy. It’s sad to say but it will cost some lives before they start putting safety ahead of profits here.
Look at the accident record go to basically zero in the US since the 1500 rule was implemented. Experience in the flight deck is important. Just not a concern to airline execs until it’s mandated.

[FL007]

It’s down right dangerous to put a 1500 hr Instructor on the left seat of a 705 plane. What the hell were they thinking ?

No experience dealing with busy ATC, high op tempo down in the USA
No experience dealing with deicing and ramp operations.
No experience dealing with NPA with high terrain out West
No experience dealing with shitty contaminated short runways and crosswind.
No experience dealing with wind shear and stormy WX around the Great Lakes and the maritimes.

That fact that a 1500hr instructor would even apply for this position shows how utterly clueless they are. Imagine that paired with a 250 hr wonder cadet on their first pairing post line Indoc going to YYF landing RYW 34 at night on a bad winter night or during the forest fire season.
Truly the definition of the blind leading the blind.

“Oh but they’re really good at memorizing the COM”

In some cases, no experience flying IMC.

[QKZXKV]

Hi Everyone,
I have a question about the DEC positions at Jazz. Do you think it is a good move starting as a captain when you don’t know the company, the aircraft, the routes… do you think being FO for a couple of months really makes a difference to learn the stuff or the DEC position is fine ?
Thank you very much !

I would never want to be DEC and on a 1 yr probationary period. I'd say 1 yr minimum on property and on type before CA.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Hi Everyone,
I have a question about the DEC positions at Jazz. Do you think it is a good move starting as a captain when you don’t know the company, the aircraft, the routes… do you think being FO for a couple of months really makes a difference to learn the stuff or the DEC position is fine ?
Thank you very much !

I would never want to be DEC and on a 1 yr probationary period. I'd say 1 yr minimum on property and on type before CA.

That means spending more than one year at jazz. Which right now… is madness

[QKZXKV]

Hi Everyone,
I have a question about the DEC positions at Jazz. Do you think it is a good move starting as a captain when you don’t know the company, the aircraft, the routes… do you think being FO for a couple of months really makes a difference to learn the stuff or the DEC position is fine ?
Thank you very much !

I would never want to be DEC and on a 1 yr probationary period. I'd say 1 yr minimum on property and on type before CA.

That means spending more than one year at jazz. Which right now… is madness

I couldn't imagine the responsibility of CA while having the threat of a probationary period over my head, and yes they are terminating people in the yr period regardless of shortage.

[CaptDukeNukem]

I would never want to be DEC and on a 1 yr probationary period. I'd say 1 yr minimum on property and on type before CA.

That means spending more than one year at jazz. Which right now… is madness

I couldn't imagine the responsibility of CA while having the threat of a probationary period over my head, and yes they are terminating people in the yr period regardless of shortage.

Of course, I would expect them to have high standards for captains. I was just saying if you’re gonna try and tackle that captain responsibility with a 1 year probation period, there might be better 705 operations to roll the dice with.

[QKZXKV]

That means spending more than one year at jazz. Which right now… is madness

I couldn't imagine the responsibility of CA while having the threat of a probationary period over my head, and yes they are terminating people in the yr period regardless of shortage.

Of course, I would expect them to have high standards for captains. I was just saying if you’re gonna try and tackle that captain responsibility with a 1 year probation period, there might be better 705 operations to roll the dice with.

Yeah I do find it curious, maybe some candidates are arrogant enough to think it's an easier ride at Jazz?

[QKZXKV]

That means spending more than one year at jazz. Which right now… is madness

I couldn't imagine the responsibility of CA while having the threat of a probationary period over my head, and yes they are terminating people in the yr period regardless of shortage.

Of course, I would expect them to have high standards for captains. I was just saying if you’re gonna try and tackle that captain responsibility with a 1 year probation period, there might be better 705 operations to roll the dice with.

Yeah I do find it curious, maybe some candidates are arrogant enough to think it's an easier ride at Jazz?

[flyingcanuck]

I couldn't imagine the responsibility of CA while having the threat of a probationary period over my head, and yes they are terminating people in the yr period regardless of shortage.

Of course, I would expect them to have high standards for captains. I was just saying if you’re gonna try and tackle that captain responsibility with a 1 year probation period, there might be better 705 operations to roll the dice with.

Yeah I do find it curious, maybe some candidates are arrogant enough to think it's an easier ride at Jazz?

lots do, and some wash out and some change their mind at the last second and go be FOs instead

[Man_in_the_sky]

Well, the training departement is a joke actually on some type... Brand new captain that didn't fly the plane for less than a few months teaching the new hires.. Disaster waiting to happen!

[fixnfly]

Well, the training departement is a joke actually on some type... Brand new captain that didn't fly the plane for less than a few months teaching the new hires.. Disaster waiting to happen!

That's better than I thought. Pretty sure the training department is getting new FO's with 8-10 months at Jazz and under 200 hours on type teaching FFS at CAE because they can't find anyone else to do it.

[flyingcanuck]

Well, the training departement is a joke actually on some type... Brand new captain that didn't fly the plane for less than a few months teaching the new hires.. Disaster waiting to happen!

That's better than I thought. Pretty sure the training department is getting new FO's with 8-10 months at Jazz and under 200 hours on type teaching FFS at CAE because they can't find anyone else to do it.

that and as an FO you make just shy of CA pay in the train. dept

[SkyBagPiper]

What’s the current status for DEC’s for 2024?

I remember seeing a hiring portal on their website for DEC’s last year. Haven’t seen it since Spring/Summer 2023.

Last rumours I hear was they had a lot of FO’s difficult to upgrade due to PIC hours needed and there was a lack of Left seat upgradable candidates. I’m curious if that was resolved or it’s still in effect in 2024. I know the internal flow list to AC is no more, so they probably apply as external. But I keep hearing many new AC groundschool guys are indeed from Jazz. How is that helping the shortage at jazz vs. the DEC issue?

[Happyflyer78]

What’s the current status for DEC’s for 2024?

I remember seeing a hiring portal on their website for DEC’s last year. Haven’t seen it since Spring/Summer 2023.

Last rumours I hear was they had a lot of FO’s difficult to upgrade due to PIC hours needed and there was a lack of Left seat upgradable candidates. I’m curious if that was resolved or it’s still in effect in 2024. I know the internal flow list to AC is no more, so they probably apply as external. But I keep hearing many new AC groundschool guys are indeed from Jazz. How is that helping the shortage at jazz vs. the DEC issue?

Those rumours are not true. The facts are Jazz has no desire to hire quickly upgradable applicants, they hire low time graduates who takes a few years to upgrade, not experienced 703 Captains who are upgradable within a year.

[cdnavater]

What’s the current status for DEC’s for 2024?

I remember seeing a hiring portal on their website for DEC’s last year. Haven’t seen it since Spring/Summer 2023.

Last rumours I hear was they had a lot of FO’s difficult to upgrade due to PIC hours needed and there was a lack of Left seat upgradable candidates. I’m curious if that was resolved or it’s still in effect in 2024. I know the internal flow list to AC is no more, so they probably apply as external. But I keep hearing many new AC groundschool guys are indeed from Jazz. How is that helping the shortage at jazz vs. the DEC issue?

I believe when you are hired if you are qualified, you could turn any FO spot into DEC, as long as there is a current vacancy for Captain on that equipment. I believe all positions have Captain vacancies, however, not many have been successful at the DEC spots.
If you have some good 705 left seat time, you might succeed, some ATPL qualified candidates have come through lately and chose to go right seat for a year and then bid over to the left seat, but you could bid it and be awarded at any time if that is your standing bid.
As for the flow list, I don’t know what you mean by “no more”, do you mean cancelled?
Any qualified Jazz pilot hired prior to Aug or Sept 2023 is entitled to 60% of the new hire positions at AC, after that date it’s 30%. So, hypothetically you as a new hire would be in the 30% but if no qualified Jazz pilots are on the list, you could theoretically skip them. I believe the qualifications stand at 2000 hours and an ATPL.

[Inverted2]

If someone showed up with the experience I’m sure a DEC position is open at Jazz but with a starting hourly rate of around $110/hr they won’t be getting too many applicants. Hiring these days is mostly ~1000 hr pilots who are not even close in hours or experience to upgrade.

[rudder]

If someone showed up with the experience I’m sure a DEC position is open at Jazz but with a starting hourly rate of around $110/hr they won’t be getting too many applicants. Hiring these days is mostly ~1000 hr pilots who are not even close in hours or experience to upgrade.

Porter is an example of a company that has commercial needs (rapid expansion) and understands that finding qualified pilots will come at a cost. It is both recognized and accepted.

There other carriers that either don’t seem to get it, or are willing to let the chips fall where they may.

[hithere]

Why would anyone, with any amount of experience( enough to be DEC at least) sign up for $110/hr to fly 18 days a month(or be on reserve for 18 days a month) and live in the most expensive cities in Canada? Actually the reserve scenario is more realistic because you will constantly have senior FOs parachute in above you when they do finally decide to upgrade, plus the Captain rosters are very stagnant at Jazz . The only solution is to pay more for DEC(as Porter is doing) or provide a POS space commute/hotel allowance to entice pilots with experience to leave their 703/704 operator but still be able to live at home in an affordable city and/or have more guaranteed days off per month