Our son wants to be an airline pilot... I have some questions :)

[Kenndybo]

Firstly I would like to start off by thanking anybody who replies to this thread as in this day and age forums are one of the last few places where you can find valuable information from industry experts and people with real-world knowledge rather than YouTube, Twitter and Facebook where adults and children seem to blurt out any old rubbish about any subject and everybody is an expert.....

I'm starting this thread as I have an enthusiastic son of 16 years old who has a dream to be a commercial pilot and fly around the world. We are very supportive of this and what an achievement it will be when he becomes a pilot, but the road is long and lots of effort will be required I know that bit for sure.

So to give you an overview you....we are a British family living in France where our son will undertake his GCSE equivalent in France, he is also currently taking lessons in flying light aircraft and within the next few months will undertake his first solo flight. He also takes additional lessons at college in physics and aviation so he can fast track his career as a commercial pilot.

The questions I have asked him he hasn't been able to answer yet and of course he's only 16 so he probably doesn't know. My advice to him was to sign up to a forum full of experienced pilots that can give you some real world feedback about how the industry works.

He is toying with the idea of moving back to the UK at 18 years old as he is under the assumption that he will be given free training by a company and after 2-years will be given a pilot's licence and will start flying planes. I have my concerns around this as there must be a catch somewhere for example if you have to be 25 years old with 2 years driving experience to hire a van surely there aren't 20 year old flying 300 million planes around, but I am not a pilot and this is why I started this thread to ask these questions. Both his mother and I fully support what he is doing and we are currently paying for him to have private flying lessons so we also take it very seriously but if it sounds too good to be true it normally is and we are being told by him that after 2-years he will earn 60 to £70,000 and that's it- it's all done nothing more?!

Another option is to stay in France and complete his training here. I don't know if there is a school here that offers the same package as the UK but I would be interested to know from people's experience on here, is there a difference in the UK and France and would and in your experience what would be more beneficial to be based in France or the UK as a pilot? Do they pay higher wages in France or the UK?

He has also mentioned that you can pay around £70,000 for a 3 year course and at the end of that course again you'll be a fully fledged commercial airline pilot where you'll be able to walk into a job of around 60 to £70,000. This sounds amazing but one we definitely do not have £70,000 and our advice would be to not borrow the money at such a young age but of course at 18 onwards in the eyes of the law he is an adult and like us all he will learn by his mistakes.

Of course I would love our son to stay with as and the rest of his family here in France but this is not about me this is about him and I'm not a pilot as I'm certainly not clever enough to pass any of the exams let alone fly a plane! I'm just a dad with a passionate about flying son and within the next 2 years he will make some decisions which will change the rest of his life and with all of our children I want to give him the best advice possible.

I won't be able to receive personal messages as I'm a new member here but any advice or feedback would be greatly appreciated. As a side note I have the upmost respect for airline pilots, our son has shown us some of the training he will have to go through and some of the things he will have to learn and it seems unfathomable !! I wouldn't even get close ! Our son is learning this in a foreign language as well which blows my mind even more !

Once again thank you for your time and I apologise for any spelling mistakes or inaccuracies above.

[Choppermech1986]

This is a Canadian forum, so you won't get much specific information. Google Professional Pilot Rumour Network and trawl the terms and endearment page there's lots of Europeans there.

I'm not familiar with the cadet program that you mentioned but if it's as good as it seems, he will have a LOT of competition for the position, and be indentured to the airline for many years. The tried and tested methods are; 1. Be born to wealthy parents and 2. Slowly work your way up the industry, earning and learning as you go.

For the sake of the rest of the industry, please ensure he knows the value of hard work!

Cheers.

[altiplano]

As chopper posted, this is a Canadian forum with different licensing, different career paths, and a different job market.

UK/EU is riddled with pay to fly schemes that cost upwards the value of a home mortgage to put ab initio guys into airliners - ie. buying your job. Make sure you understand the costs involved if you go that way. I would check the PPRUNE forum for sure.

[flyingjerry]

In Canada you need to be 21 years old to hold an ATPL (Airline Transport License). So in theory, a 21 year old that started at a young age can be a captain of a multi-million dollar aircraft.

My understanding is that Europe and Canada have very different aviation industries as far as job progression goes

In Canada a typical job progression would be to pay for all 200 hours of your commercial license out of pocket (around $100KCAD at this point), if determined this takes 9 months - 1 year. A typical first job is in our smaller, usually Northern communities flying cargo or medevac, or even to fishing/hunting camps on floats. This would typically be 1-2 years. At 750+ hours, a regional airline would be the next stop for another 1-4 years. Finally, when you have completed your ATPL and logged 2000+ hours, you put in your applications with our bigger carriers and hope for the call. In theory if you start training at 18 years old, in a perfect scenario you could be 21 at a major airline, although 25-30 is more typical.

In Europe the paths look very different. The site, PPRUNE will provide more local pilots. But as a brief difference, my understanding is Europe does not have as big of a general aviation industry, so pilots tend to study a lot more theoretical knowledge, and compete heavily for the few "cadet" positions airlines have. As you guessed, usually these jobs come with strings like paying for training up-front.

[digits_]

If you want a flying job, go the Canadian route.

If you want a nice cushy flying job, go the European route. But you might end up with nothing.

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Another possibility is to join the airforce, and then join a major airline after his tenure at the airforce.

[Alpat]

Hi, if you do the training in France, he will get the EASA license. In the UK, he will get a national UK license. All depends where he will feel comfortable.
Entrance into the « airlines » is much more complicated on the European side of the pond. Astronaut exams (Theory & Medical) need to be passed and never mind the psycho crap we must go through as well……… but once your in, you got the jackpot! You need to coaxed out of him what turns him on.
From crop dusting, to Mach 2 passing by Biz, Pax & freight before deciding why, where, when. Good luck

[The Champ]

Don’t deprive your kid of the opportunity to figure stuff out on his own. He should be doing this research not you.

[khedrei]

Some good responses above. I will add that I know very little about the European pilot process but we had a few British guys training on student Visas at our school and they said that the cost is lower in canada. If he wanted to move, its possible that money could be saved. How much? I dont know. As mentioned above, the cost of a CPL in canada is about 100k with the ratings. Then the work still needs to be done at low paying jobs to get a decent job. Sounds like there might be a better opportunity in the EU if he can get into that cadet program if there is a job at the end. But don't underestimate the amount of dedication it takes to get a license. A program like that sounds like it would have very high standards. There are some sponsored college programs around here and people get booted all the time for not performing. The profession is in demand, at least in North America.

Good luck.

[Bede]

My knowledge of the European aviation industry is rather limited, but from the people that I've met, I've heard that once you get the license ($$$), the probability of actually getting even a predatory job (RyanAir, etc.) is slim.

[-42]

There is absolutely no advantage to come to Canada…..for anything. Twenty years ago maybe but times have changed and not for the better. Your son is way better off staying in Europe. Canada is the equivalent of second world for wages and cost of living is extremely high so unless your planning on sending him n allowance every month…..

[twa22]

My knowledge of the European aviation industry is rather limited, but from the people that I've met, I've heard that once you get the license ($$$), the probability of actually getting even a predatory job (RyanAir, etc.) is slim.

Expensive yes, chances of getting a job being slim, not like it was before... you don't have all the GA flying like we do here so it is harder, but given that there's actually a shortage of pilots worldwide (irrelevant of what the reasons are), the barriers to entry are really only cost, and nowadays, most cadet schemes loan you the money and bond you for 5 years rather then having you pay upfront (wizzair cadet program comes to mind, ryanair may be similar)

[EPR]

Is there going to be a serious shortage of Captains in Europe with all of the 250 hour wonders filling the right seat?

[digits_]

Is there going to be a serious shortage of Captains in Europe with all of the 250 hour wonders filling the right seat?

No. They have been doing that for ages. Most airlines have plenty of FOs with thousands of hours on type that can be upgraded.

Thay doesn't mean some won't prefer external hires, but that would be a choice, not a necessity.