Approx Net Pay - First Year Q400 Captain

[jayflight]

Wondering what the approximate net pay (after tax) to expect as a first year Q400 captain. Also wondering if it's possible to negotiate starting higher up on the scale than year 1 as a new hire without a type rating (I've done this before outside of the aviation industry).

[rigpiggy]

maybe if outside of jazz/encore/pal. but when you sign on those places, your just a number...and the union would flip sh!t

[PRM1]

Wondering what the approximate net pay (after tax) to expect as a first year Q400 captain. Also wondering if it's possible to negotiate starting higher up on the scale than year 1 as a new hire without a type rating (I've done this before outside of the aviation industry).

Um, no.

You’d be subverting the seniority of all the other pilots at the airline. What makes you think this is even a possibility?

[doiwannabeapilot]

Yes, it's possible. There is a guy here Keith Mello.
If you hire him as a consultant, he'll walk you through it.
Go for year 5 pay, with 6 weeks vacation to start !
Aim high !

[goingnowherefast]

Makes sense for a Encore/Jazz captain with a couple years up the pay scale to want a similar pay level in another job flying a similar airplane on similar routes.

Whether the airline (Porter in this case) can offer it is a different question.

It would sure be nice if we could all get industry years of service pay, not just company specific years of service. Would really improve job mobility, encourage inter-airline pilot poaching and push up rates. For example, a year 10 Jazz Captain can go to Porter and start at year 10, without taking a huge pay cut, he's not financially handcuffed to Jazz anymore. He can afford to change employers without sacrificing lifestyle. It forces the airlines to work (pay better) to retain longer term employees since there aren't financially incentives to stay anymore.

Sure seniority bidding, I get that part. But what do I care if my company hires a more experienced pilot and pay them more?

[thepoors]

Wondering what the approximate net pay (after tax) to expect as a first year Q400 captain. Also wondering if it's possible to negotiate starting higher up on the scale than year 1 as a new hire without a type rating (I've done this before outside of the aviation industry).

Um, no.

You’d be subverting the seniority of all the other pilots at the airline. What makes you think this is even a possibility?

Porter doesn't have a union.

[Crewbunk]

Porter doesn't have a union.

That’s correct. And, they don’t have a union because they have a good working relationship between them.

If Porter started going outside the posted agreement/ wage bands, doing “special favours”, etc. a union becomes more likely.

[Vanguard]

Porter doesn't have a union.

That’s correct. And, they don’t have a union because they have a good working relationship between them.

If Porter started going outside the posted agreement/ wage bands, doing “special favours”, etc. a union becomes more likely.

There is no such thing as a good working relation. Its called blindness and kool-aid drinks that have been quite high there. The porter pilots believe they have a good relationship for years and years but nothing is further from the truth.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Porter doesn't have a union.

That’s correct. And, they don’t have a union because they have a good working relationship between them.

If Porter started going outside the posted agreement/ wage bands, doing “special favours”, etc. a union becomes more likely.

There is no such thing as a good working relation. Its called blindness and kool-aid drinks that have been quite high there. The porter pilots believe they have a good relationship for years and years but nothing is further from the truth.

I used to think this way too. And you know what…. Until you see the relationship, it’s not easy to comprehend.

Is it perfect? No.

Is it better than being a union? Yes…also NO.

But one thing I can certainly attest to, things change faster here and generally in the positive direction with very little pushing from the pilot group.

Must be nice on your high horse at the “NHL of airlines”.

[Crewbunk]

That’s correct. And, they don’t have a union because they have a good working relationship between them.

If Porter started going outside the posted agreement/ wage bands, doing “special favours”, etc. a union becomes more likely.

There is no such thing as a good working relation. Its called blindness and kool-aid drinks that have been quite high there. The porter pilots believe they have a good relationship for years and years but nothing is further from the truth.

I used to think this way too. And you know what…. Until you see the relationship, it’s not easy to comprehend.

Is it perfect? No.

Is it better than being a union? Yes…also NO.

But one thing I can certainly attest to, things change faster here and generally in the positive direction with very little pushing from the pilot group.

Must be nice on your high horse at the “NHL of airlines”.

The bottom line is that Porter pilots are happy with the current arrangement. If they weren’t, they’d change things.

It’s incredibly arrogant to look from the outside and make judgement.

[thepoors]

There is no such thing as a good working relation. Its called blindness and kool-aid drinks that have been quite high there. The porter pilots believe they have a good relationship for years and years but nothing is further from the truth.

I used to think this way too. And you know what…. Until you see the relationship, it’s not easy to comprehend.

Is it perfect? No.

Is it better than being a union? Yes…also NO.

But one thing I can certainly attest to, things change faster here and generally in the positive direction with very little pushing from the pilot group.

Must be nice on your high horse at the “NHL of airlines”.

The bottom line is that Porter pilots are happy with the current arrangement. If they weren’t, they’d change things.

It’s incredibly arrogant to look from the outside and make judgement.

Lol the ongoing exodus to AC (especially from the Q) says otherwise. None of my buddies at Porter were happy with the company, they liked the people they worked with on the line.

Hope you wake up get unionized before things get worse.

[pitottubey]

There is no such thing as a good working relation. Its called blindness and kool-aid drinks that have been quite high there. The porter pilots believe they have a good relationship for years and years but nothing is further from the truth.

I used to think this way too. And you know what…. Until you see the relationship, it’s not easy to comprehend.

Is it perfect? No.

Is it better than being a union? Yes…also NO.

But one thing I can certainly attest to, things change faster here and generally in the positive direction with very little pushing from the pilot group.

Must be nice on your high horse at the “NHL of airlines”.

The bottom line is that Porter pilots are happy with the current arrangement. If they weren’t, they’d change things.

It’s incredibly arrogant to look from the outside and make judgement.

speak for yourself. Making 48k a year as an airline pilot is shameful.

[Crewbunk]

speak for yourself. Making 48k a year as an airline pilot is shameful.

And so is the first four years of F/O R/P flat pay at AC. But, (from the outside), I’d never judge Porter’s wages and working conditions. It’s their airline.

The only way non-union shops have been able to stay non-union, is to keep the workers happy. When they are not happy, all it takes is one phone call to start a card drive.

[Scantron]

I think the tone at least on the dash8 side is changing. Porter has rehired pilots in the past and gave them their acquired pay but not seniority. Recently dash captains have been watching management hire almost a hundred DEC off the street onto the jet while stopping flow of the q captains. This coupled with no YOS is not good, (currently year 10 dash captain moves to year 2 jet pay upon transfer.) There was an attempt on the jet side to unionize this year. This was an effort to split the seniority list. 2 AOC makes this a possibility. There is currently an accute dash 8 captain shortage as well. Some were lost to transfers and some lost to AC. Senior FO and a few CA are opting to go jet FO instead of upgrading as the pay is comparable. It’s going to be an interesting summer.

[CaptDukeNukem]

I think the tone at least on the dash8 side is changing. Porter has rehired pilots in the past and gave them their acquired pay but not seniority. Recently dash captains have been watching management hire almost a hundred DEC off the street onto the jet while stopping flow of the q captains. This coupled with no YOS is not good, (currently year 10 dash captain moves to year 2 jet pay upon transfer.) There was an attempt on the jet side to unionize this year. This was an effort to split the seniority list. 2 AOC makes this a possibility. There is currently an accute dash 8 captain shortage as well. Some were lost to transfers and some lost to AC. Senior FO and a few CA are opting to go jet FO instead of upgrading as the pay is comparable. It’s going to be an interesting summer.

That “attempt” was hardly an attempt. It was more flight deck talk. This drive was started from DEC trying to prevent people parachuting over top of them. While things aren’t perfect, I don’t believe a union is the solution at the moment

[8895]

Thread drift here is hilarious, so why not keep it going to knock some arrogant AC pilots off their flat pay high horse lol there’s no union cause the pilot group hasn’t been pissed off enough to form one. Does that mean the relationship between employer and employee group is perfect? Of course not. But it’s certainly higher than the industry average up here I’d say. Seeing pilots from other airlines saying it’s terrible that we aren’t unionized are probably at AC working on flat pay, negotiated for them by their union, and I’m sure they love seeing those deductions off their pay every month LOL

Porter is well ahead of AC in terms of lifestyle, not that the bar is set very high by them in that regard. If the company stays true to its yearly benchmarking of salaries I don’t see the pilot group really getting pissed off enough to form a union. As previously stated though there’s definitely attrition to AC from Q captains, not a crazy amount, but steady.

Based on the seniority lists right now they’re short Q captains and E2 FO’s, although they did prioritize training captains on the E2 first, so kinda to be expected especially with the training throughput issues that happened early on, so I’d be expecting the ground schools to have more FO’s for at least the next few classes.

But to answer the original question here, no, you won’t be able to start higher up on the payscale. If the company started doing that then I’d imagine that relationship with the company and the pilot group would become toxic pretty quickly. Again there is 100% a need for Q captains though, so it’d be nice if Porter took the lead in terms of pay scales to attract and retain them, instead of simply benchmarking all these poverty Q pay scales throughout our industry. They used to advertise “walking to work” but with the COL in Toronto that would be a blatant lie at this point unless you’ve got roommates to split rent with.

[arthurt]

Does upgrade works with the seniority too ? For exemple if you enter Porter FO on the Q with 2500 TT and 800h multl PIC turbine you gonna upgrade based on senerioty or you can except a faster upgrade ?

[Teeg]

seniority.
but more senior people may a) not want to upgrade b) cant

[Vanguard]

There is no such thing as a good working relation. Its called blindness and kool-aid drinks that have been quite high there. The porter pilots believe they have a good relationship for years and years but nothing is further from the truth.

I used to think this way too. And you know what…. Until you see the relationship, it’s not easy to comprehend.

Is it perfect? No.

Is it better than being a union? Yes…also NO.

But one thing I can certainly attest to, things change faster here and generally in the positive direction with very little pushing from the pilot group.

Must be nice on your high horse at the “NHL of airlines”.

The bottom line is that Porter pilots are happy with the current arrangement. If they weren’t, they’d change things.

It’s incredibly arrogant to look from the outside and make judgement.

You must be an east coast pilot — those lifers are the only ones happy if that. Most pilots aren’t happy — you all are just stuck in the same arrangement as westjet was for 23yrs and many years at Encore as well. It’s the same story and I’m sure once the blade comes for you most of you will get hurt enough to sign cards.

The NHL of airlines isn’t perfect by any means. We are looking forward to bringing some changes but we were never drinking kool-aid so you can chill with your own high horse of “relationship”. It does not exist and would be nice for you to wake up from your fairytale.

[Vanguard]

There is no such thing as a good working relation. Its called blindness and kool-aid drinks that have been quite high there. The porter pilots believe they have a good relationship for years and years but nothing is further from the truth.

I used to think this way too. And you know what…. Until you see the relationship, it’s not easy to comprehend.

Is it perfect? No.

Is it better than being a union? Yes…also NO.

But one thing I can certainly attest to, things change faster here and generally in the positive direction with very little pushing from the pilot group.

Must be nice on your high horse at the “NHL of airlines”.

The bottom line is that Porter pilots are happy with the current arrangement. If they weren’t, they’d change things.

It’s incredibly arrogant to look from the outside and make judgement.

You must be an east coast pilot — those lifers are the only ones happy if that. Most pilots aren’t happy — you all are just stuck in the same arrangement as westjet was for 23yrs and many years at Encore as well. It’s the same story and I’m sure once the blade comes for you most of you will get hurt enough to sign cards.

The NHL of airlines isn’t perfect by any means. We are looking forward to bringing some changes but we were never drinking kool-aid so you can chill with your own high horse of “relationship”. It does not exist and would be nice for you to wake up from your fairytale.

[Wayans]

I used to think this way too. And you know what…. Until you see the relationship, it’s not easy to comprehend.

Is it perfect? No.

Is it better than being a union? Yes…also NO.

But one thing I can certainly attest to, things change faster here and generally in the positive direction with very little pushing from the pilot group.

Must be nice on your high horse at the “NHL of airlines”.

The bottom line is that Porter pilots are happy with the current arrangement. If they weren’t, they’d change things.

It’s incredibly arrogant to look from the outside and make judgement.

You must be an east coast pilot — those lifers are the only ones happy if that. Most pilots aren’t happy — you all are just stuck in the same arrangement as westjet was for 23yrs and many years at Encore as well. It’s the same story and I’m sure once the blade comes for you most of you will get hurt enough to sign cards.

The NHL of airlines isn’t perfect by any means. We are looking forward to bringing some changes but we were never drinking kool-aid so you can chill with your own high horse of “relationship”. It does not exist and would be nice for you to wake up from your fairytale.

Been at Porter over a decade. Toronto based. I'm happy and I'm not alone in that sentiment. Company has had ups and downs but that is the same anywhere. Right now there is turbulence because of how quickly things are changing. But the management is responding about as quick as it realistically can given the current state of the industry and the need for qualified employees. I don't think a union could do any better at the moment, and I know many pilots here who came from unionized airlines and are happy we aren't tied to the baggage of a union.

Of course that could change in the future, but as already stated - it's in the best interest of the company for it to respond to employee sentiment and make positive changes. Without lengthy negotiations or contract terms, we can change pretty quickly. It isn't perfect, but if pilots wanted/needed a union here, we'd already have it. For now it works well without one.

[khedrei]

I used to think this way too. And you know what…. Until you see the relationship, it’s not easy to comprehend.

Is it perfect? No.

Is it better than being a union? Yes…also NO.

But one thing I can certainly attest to, things change faster here and generally in the positive direction with very little pushing from the pilot group.

Must be nice on your high horse at the “NHL of airlines”.

The bottom line is that Porter pilots are happy with the current arrangement. If they weren’t, they’d change things.

It’s incredibly arrogant to look from the outside and make judgement.

speak for yourself. Making 48k a year as an airline pilot is shameful.

I didnt think they made that much....

[pitottubey]

speak for yourself. Making 48k a year as an airline pilot is shameful.

And so is the first four years of F/O R/P flat pay at AC. But, (from the outside), I’d never judge Porter’s wages and working conditions. It’s their airline.

The only way non-union shops have been able to stay non-union, is to keep the workers happy. When they are not happy, all it takes is one phone call to start a card drive.

and junior pilots aren't happy making so little at AC either. It's an embarrassment to our profession.

[vanislepilot]

There is no such thing as a good working relation. Its called blindness and kool-aid drinks that have been quite high there. The porter pilots believe they have a good relationship for years and years but nothing is further from the truth.

I used to think this way too. And you know what…. Until you see the relationship, it’s not easy to comprehend.

Is it perfect? No.

Is it better than being a union? Yes…also NO.

But one thing I can certainly attest to, things change faster here and generally in the positive direction with very little pushing from the pilot group.

Must be nice on your high horse at the “NHL of airlines”.

The bottom line is that Porter pilots are happy with the current arrangement. If they weren’t, they’d change things.

It’s incredibly arrogant to look from the outside and make judgement.

Excuse my arrogance but,

I think you may be the arrogant one here.
As a former employee I disagree that everyone was happy and peachy. Good company to work for? Yes. Better than other places? No. Period. I wasn’t happy so I left… and others are leaving too. Unions aren’t perfect but it’s much better to have one then not.