AIP is dogshit

[TFTMB heavy]

2 of the 6 ALPA reps didn’t want it actually and thought that going on strike was a better option! This will go through barely I bet and will send a strong message that 40% of the pilots think this contract is bs! We shall see on Friday.

I am sorry but when 2 of 6 say no, there are some red flags.

Those two should have remained quiet and show solidarity to the other reps. REP vote results should never be released, there's no point.

Why not? How else can there be accountability?

Representative democracy is transparent. Or at least it should be. That was one of ACPA’s greatest flaws.

In my opinion the whole MEC should present a united front. It's always best to strive for consensus to start with but if it can't be achieved and you vote against then you fall in line and support the agreement. Makes for better representation and less division for membership. That's my opinion and how we operated when I was a rep.

[Fredsbutt]

The blue Kool Aid is still flowing strong!

[JBI]

2 of the 6 ALPA reps didn’t want it actually and thought that going on strike was a better option! This will go through barely I bet and will send a strong message that 40% of the pilots think this contract is bs! We shall see on Friday.

I am sorry but when 2 of 6 say no, there are some red flags.

Yes there are, the red flags mean that it's time for those two reps to be recalled. I have heard from one of their own mouths directly why they voted no, and 2 of the 3 items weren't a part of the mandate given by the membership. Remember, the union is run bottom up, and when reps vote off their own ideals rather than those of the mandate given by the membership, then it is time to go.

+1

If the TA passes by a pretty big majority the reps that voted No need to take a really long look at whether they are actually listening to what the majority of their pilots want or just the vocal minority.

Just as if the TA fails the standard path is for some or all of the NC or MEC execs to resign.

While dissenting opinions and constructive debate are necessary and welcome, it’s important that they actually represent their pilots and not just their own views.

[Blackdog0301]

TA passed with a 86.9% in favor vote and 95.4% of eligible voters partaking.

[rudder]

TA passed with a 86.9% in favor vote and 95.4% of eligible voters partaking.

Congrats. That is higher than many anticipated.

It certainly validates the TA based on the member survey as well as consistent solidarity amongst the pilot group at large.

Now the task of implementation and enforcement. Good luck!

[Blackdog0301]

Word is that Swoop will not operate beyond its Summer schedule this year... Ending October 28th with no intention of operating beyond that.

[Airbrake]

Word is that Swoop will not operate beyond its Summer schedule this year... Ending October 28th with no intention of operating beyond that.

Alexis held a WO townhall and stated that integration will be complete by Oct with WS.

[bcflyer]

2 of the 6 ALPA reps didn’t want it actually and thought that going on strike was a better option! This will go through barely I bet and will send a strong message that 40% of the pilots think this contract is bs! We shall see on Friday.

I am sorry but when 2 of 6 say no, there are some red flags.

This didn’t age well…..

[Chelsea Handler]

2 of the 6 ALPA reps didn’t want it actually and thought that going on strike was a better option! This will go through barely I bet and will send a strong message that 40% of the pilots think this contract is bs! We shall see on Friday.

I am sorry but when 2 of 6 say no, there are some red flags.

This didn’t age well…..

BCflyer forgot that we are just Canadian pilots.

Anyways, glad we can move forward, more to gain next time around. A step forward, no matter how large or small, is still moving forward and not backwards.

[Romain]

I know there have been lots of positive in the new contract, but regarding the pension plan:
For an $100k income, the company now places $10k instead of $20k previously? I understand that it doesn't need the pilot to put $10k anymore, but I feel that it is a pretty huge step back. Or I don't get it right?

[Dyna]

That is correct, with one important detail missing. The other 10% from the company is added to each pay. It’s not lost, the company still contributes a full 20%. We just get half of it as cash on payday to invest, or spend on liquorice and pop rocks if we so choose.

[Protonpilot]

I know there have been lots of positive in the new contract, but regarding the pension plan:
For an $100k income, the company now places $10k instead of $20k previously? I understand that it doesn't need the pilot to put $10k anymore, but I feel that it is a pretty huge step back. Or I don't get it right?

Question for you.

With this yet to be identified pension plan, is the intent for pilots to contribute the other 8% in order to reach the 18% maximum that many plans have in place? Some plans allow higher than 18% combined but require a 50/50 split, which would mean a 10% contribution from pilots. That's how it works for jointly sponsored plans like the TTC, OPTrust, OMERS, etc.

If you're going to be contributing that much, is that common knowledge among the group?

[dontcallmeshirley]

That is correct, with one important detail missing. The other 10% from the company is added to each pay. It’s not lost, the company still contributes a full 20%. We just get half of it as cash on payday to invest, or spend on liquorice and pop rocks if we so choose.

9.1%

[digits_]

That is correct, with one important detail missing. The other 10% from the company is added to each pay. It’s not lost, the company still contributes a full 20%. We just get half of it as cash on payday to invest, or spend on liquorice and pop rocks if we so choose.

9.1%

100 * 1.10 * 1.09 = 120
100 * 1.20 = 120

[dontcallmeshirley]

That is correct, with one important detail missing. The other 10% from the company is added to each pay. It’s not lost, the company still contributes a full 20%. We just get half of it as cash on payday to invest, or spend on liquorice and pop rocks if we so choose.

9.1%

100 * 1.10 * 1.091 = 120
100 * 1.20 = 120

Edit: The below text in red is incorrect as the 9.1% is added to the salary before the 10% match is calculated. Additionally, the loss is only $900.

The effective amount is 19.1% as the the 10% and 9.1% are added together, not multiplied.

On a $100,000 base salary, you are losing $9000. The benefit is that you're getting $91,000 right away instead of waiting a year for it.

[digits_]

100 * 1.10 * 1.091 = 120
100 * 1.20 = 120

The effective amount is 19.1% as the the 10% and 9.1% are added together, not multiplied.

On a $100,000 base salary, you are losing $9000. The benefit is that you're getting $91,000 right away instead of waiting a year for it.

They are multiplied. You get 9.1% on your salary, and then you get 10% of the total amount in the pension. There were some earlier related posts clarifying that. Unless that info was wrong.

[RockSalty]

9.1%

100 * 1.10 * 1.091 = 120
100 * 1.20 = 120

The effective amount is 19.1% as the the 10% and 9.1% are added together, not multiplied.

On a $100,000 base salary, you are losing $9000. The benefit is that you're getting $91,000 right away instead of waiting a year for it.

You obviously arent a westjet pilot or didnt go to any of the roadshows, because they explained it to us and that 9.1% they added to our rates is indeed multiplied by the 10%.

And just FYI 0.9% of 100k is $900

[cloak]

The contract is done, with high approval rate, largely to do with the demise of Swoop. For all its faults, "the fighter brand" as they liked to call it!, had established itself and seemingly succeeded in guarding the rear and limiting competitors' growth. And time will tell the merits of this contract.

The new contract is not without shortcomings of its own. Raise of 24% over four years barely covers inflation of the last two, let alone what's to come, which is not going to be insignificant if Justin is left in Ottawa. Pension is still unclear, and most "gains" are largely reshuffling. And while it is nice to lock some of the variable compensation under rates of pay, the possibility of a meaningful pay-out at the time of next IPO, is unclear and seemingly untapped.

And now, it is clear that the company has been forced into an "unplanned" road which it is trying to navigate. Time will tell if this contract helps it recruit more pilots. Although it seems unlikely due to its low starting pay and very long upgrade times. In spite of unjustified four years of flat pay, Air Canada is still in the lead in recruitment due to its known growth plans, known pension plan, and various avenues of growth for pilots, especially if "younger".

[dontcallmeshirley]

They are multiplied. You get 9.1% on your salary, and then you get 10% of the total amount in the pension. There were some earlier related posts clarifying that. Unless that info was wrong.

Encore pilot and apparently misinformed.

You obviously arent a westjet pilot or didnt go to any of the roadshows, because they explained it to us and that 9.1% they added to our rates is indeed multiplied by the 10%.

And just FYI 0.9% of 100k is $900

I missed a zero when calculating it.

Thank you both for pointing out my error. I have edited my post in question to prevent further confusion.

[Maxpwr]

They are multiplied. You get 9.1% on your salary, and then you get 10% of the total amount in the pension. There were some earlier related posts clarifying that. Unless that info was wrong.

Encore pilot and apparently misinformed.

You obviously arent a westjet pilot or didnt go to any of the roadshows, because they explained it to us and that 9.1% they added to our rates is indeed multiplied by the 10%.

And just FYI 0.9% of 100k is $900

I missed a zero when calculating it.

Thank you both for pointing out my error. I have edited my post in question to prevent further confusion.

#confidentlyincorrect lol

Again, this was explained previously as well as at the roadshows. It’s basic math and the pilots lost nothing with this move.

100k + 20%= $120k (old system)

100k + 9.1%= $109100 + 10% = $120010 (new system)

$10 more. Yay.

[Romain]

So if I understand, WSP is the pension for 10% and CEP is Cash equivalent payment that will figure on the paystubs for 9.1% and will be taxable right away like source of income?

[Maritimer]

So if I understand, WSP is the pension for 10% and CEP is Cash equivalent payment that will figure on the paystubs for 9.1% and will be taxable right away like source of income?

Nope.

WSP is 10% unmatched under the new contract. Under the old contract it was 20% matched.

Under the new contract, 9.1% of the company's 20% has been added to the hourly rates and leaves 10% unmatched to be contributed by the company.

As has been posted above, 10% added to the higher rate (salary plus 9.1%) is slightly higher but basically the same as 20%.

CEP is the Cash Equivalent Payment, formerly the stock options. Used to be paid once a year, now to be paid on 24 pay periods, equally.

[Commonwealth]

Are the CEP available to new hires? How much are they?

[Aviator12]

FO first year:
81.81 x 77.5 MMG x 12 months = 76 083
X1.1 WSP= 83 691
+$7312 Stock option replacement (CEP) 24 equal payments (assuming 1st year gets it. Old contract was after 1 year on property. Language to follow on this contract)
= $91 003

2 years completed is when the nice big hike comes:

$130 072

Potential additional unknown amounts:
-profit share
-owners performance award

[Nashbandicoot]

Are the CEP available to new hires? How much are they?

After 1 year on property currently.