Negotiations

[CaptDukeNukem]

Abused? No. Oversubscribed? Yes.

what is the difference? if you know you shouldn't be on LTD but decide to stay on, that's abusing the system

That said, it would definitely help take home pay if STD, LTD, and health care were 100% covered by Jazz.

Part of the reason why I left. Deductions were absolutely ludicrous.

[Inverted2]

There are definitely abusers of the system. 100%. Not just a Jazz thing but across all fields of work. It is too lucrative at Jazz for people on STD/LTD. They don’t even bother questioning people anymore. I know of a guy off because the Dash 8 environmental system “gave him asthma”.Well guess what? The Dash 8’s have been gone for 18 months. Is he back to fly something else? Nope.
Another F/O spent 2+ years off. Came back. Did their Captain upgrade. Flew a month and you guessed it. Right back on STD now at a much higher pay rate.

[Inverted2]

“ Abused? No. Oversubscribed? Yes.”

There are people here who are professional scammers who could be doing TED Talk style seminars on how to @#$! the dog and get paid. You’ve been here longer than anyone. You know that!

[Inverted2]

Company should put their nose into the LTD ... It is so expensive and alot are abusing.. Just myself know 3 pilots.. top scale pilots who could come back tomorrow but decide to stay home..

Instead of contributing, they're collecting and it's everyone that pays for those... Benefits are already super expensive, let's not cover those who makes it worst and keep some money in our own pockets

And many of these folks would be perfectly capable of doing IPT or Simulator training if they can’t fly or be retrained into some other line of work within the company.

[hsilgnepilot]

Company should put their nose into the LTD ... It is so expensive and alot are abusing.. Just myself know 3 pilots.. top scale pilots who could come back tomorrow but decide to stay home..

Instead of contributing, they're collecting and it's everyone that pays for those... Benefits are already super expensive, let's not cover those who makes it worst and keep some money in our own pockets

And many of these folks would be perfectly capable of doing IPT or Simulator training if they can’t fly or be retrained into some other line of work within the company.

You absolutely nailed that one on the head. Can’t fly? That’s fine - Off to the training department you go.

[cdnavater]

Company should put their nose into the LTD ... It is so expensive and alot are abusing.. Just myself know 3 pilots.. top scale pilots who could come back tomorrow but decide to stay home..

Instead of contributing, they're collecting and it's everyone that pays for those... Benefits are already super expensive, let's not cover those who makes it worst and keep some money in our own pockets

And many of these folks would be perfectly capable of doing IPT or Simulator training if they can’t fly or be retrained into some other line of work within the company.

You absolutely nailed that one on the head. Can’t fly? That’s fine - Off to the training department you go.

First, there are many already doing this!
Second, our LTD has an own occupation clause.
It’s voluntary but let’s say you could force them back to work, what about the ones who want to fill that role, prevented because of this, not to mention, you are limited to what you can do as a non licenced trainer. The ratio would lean heavily toward licenced pilots filling the role.
There are more on disability than position available and who wants somebody training who was forced there, not a positive environment.
How do we decide who is forced to the training department? A guy fighting cancer, is he off the hook?
You complain about the deductions but I guarantee if you need it your tune will change!

[Man_in_the_sky]

And many of these folks would be perfectly capable of doing IPT or Simulator training if they can’t fly or be retrained into some other line of work within the company.

You absolutely nailed that one on the head. Can’t fly? That’s fine - Off to the training department you go.

First, there are many already doing this!
Second, our LTD has an own occupation clause.
It’s voluntary but let’s say you could force them back to work, what about the ones who want to fill that role, prevented because of this, not to mention, you are limited to what you can do as a non licenced trainer. The ratio would lean heavily toward licenced pilots filling the role.
There are more on disability than position available and who wants somebody training who was forced there, not a positive environment.
How do we decide who is forced to the training department? A guy fighting cancer, is he off the hook?
You complain about the deductions but I guarantee if you need it your tune will change!

Don't put stuff in my mouth.

If you need LTD, for god sake, use it !!
100%, until 65 if required..

I was refering to those abusing the system, that makes the premium higher than it should actually be.

[Fullflaps]

You absolutely nailed that one on the head. Can’t fly? That’s fine - Off to the training department you go.

First, there are many already doing this!
Second, our LTD has an own occupation clause.
It’s voluntary but let’s say you could force them back to work, what about the ones who want to fill that role, prevented because of this, not to mention, you are limited to what you can do as a non licenced trainer. The ratio would lean heavily toward licenced pilots filling the role.
There are more on disability than position available and who wants somebody training who was forced there, not a positive environment.
How do we decide who is forced to the training department? A guy fighting cancer, is he off the hook?
You complain about the deductions but I guarantee if you need it your tune will change!

Don't put stuff in my mouth.

If you need LTD, for god sake, use it !!
100%, until 65 if required..

I was refering to those abusing the system, that makes the premium higher than it should actually be.

Dont put stuff in your mouth ?

[cdnavater]

First, there are many already doing this!
Second, our LTD has an own occupation clause.
It’s voluntary but let’s say you could force them back to work, what about the ones who want to fill that role, prevented because of this, not to mention, you are limited to what you can do as a non licenced trainer. The ratio would lean heavily toward licenced pilots filling the role.
There are more on disability than position available and who wants somebody training who was forced there, not a positive environment.
How do we decide who is forced to the training department? A guy fighting cancer, is he off the hook?
You complain about the deductions but I guarantee if you need it your tune will change!

Don't put stuff in my mouth.

If you need LTD, for god sake, use it !!
100%, until 65 if required..

I was refering to those abusing the system, that makes the premium higher than it should actually be.

Dont put stuff in your mouth ?

Funny, I’m sure he/she/they/them meant “words”

[airway]

It also feels like we are getting into the same sort of scenario that contributed to Collagen Air's crash.

The Colgan crew actually had some experience:

Colgan’s flight records indicated that the captain had accumulated 3,379 hours of total
flying time, including 3,051 hours in turbine airplanes, 1,030 hours as a pilot-in-command (PIC),
and 111 hours on the Q400.

Colgan’s flight records indicated that the first officer had accumulated 2,244 hours of
total flying time, including 774 hours in turbine airplanes and on the Q400.

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Acc ... AR1001.pdf






.

[truedude]

It also feels like we are getting into the same sort of scenario that contributed to Collagen Air's crash.

The Colgan crew actually had some experience:

Colgan’s flight records indicated that the captain had accumulated 3,379 hours of total
flying time, including 3,051 hours in turbine airplanes, 1,030 hours as a pilot-in-command (PIC),
and 111 hours on the Q400.

Colgan’s flight records indicated that the first officer had accumulated 2,244 hours of
total flying time, including 774 hours in turbine airplanes and on the Q400.

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Acc ... AR1001.pdf






.

Captain was a disaster, and shows what happens when companies get desperate to fill left seats. FO also spent the night in the crew room... shows what happens when you pay pilots crap.

[Little Star]

It also feels like we are getting into the same sort of scenario that contributed to Collagen Air's crash.

The Colgan crew actually had some experience:

Colgan’s flight records indicated that the captain had accumulated 3,379 hours of total
flying time, including 3,051 hours in turbine airplanes, 1,030 hours as a pilot-in-command (PIC),
and 111 hours on the Q400.

Colgan’s flight records indicated that the first officer had accumulated 2,244 hours of
total flying time, including 774 hours in turbine airplanes and on the Q400.

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Acc ... AR1001.pdf






.

Captain was a disaster, and shows what happens when companies get desperate to fill left seats. FO also spent the night in the crew room... shows what happens when you pay pilots crap.

Please, be respectful.

They are dead and are not here to defend themselves.

[Nick678]

It is pretty crazy out there, every single person I’ve flown with recently has interviews lined up, has offers for other 705 GS’s, already gave two weeks notice… going south of the border. Crazy out there

[truedude]

It is pretty crazy out there, every single person I’ve flown with recently has interviews lined up, has offers for other 705 GS’s, already gave two weeks notice… going south of the border. Crazy out there

Everything is fine... all part of the plan...

[rudder]

It is pretty crazy out there, every single person I’ve flown with recently has interviews lined up, has offers for other 705 GS’s, already gave two weeks notice… going south of the border. Crazy out there

Everything is fine... all part of the plan...

For those keeping track…..

It has been 252 days since the JAZ MEC bulletin announcing discussions with the company on issues relevant to the CBA and the evolving state of the industry as it affects Jazz.

It has been 21 days since the JAZ MEC bulletin announcing yet another round of discussions related to the aforementioned issues.

I guess the saying “time is of the essence” is not relevant to at least one of the parties.

[Nick678]

It was very clear before Jan 1st that flow was going to be ignored in favour of AC’s commercial interest. Here we are 6-7 months later and I don’t even think the grievance has be filled….

[futboler14]

This thread has averaged 518 views a day since its inception, currently exceeding The Air Canada OTS thread average of 231.

There's a lot of interest in ongoing negotiations.

Unfortunately, this interest in negotiations doesn't mean diddly squat.

[Outlaw58]

The Colgan crew actually had some experience:

Colgan’s flight records indicated that the captain had accumulated 3,379 hours of total
flying time, including 3,051 hours in turbine airplanes, 1,030 hours as a pilot-in-command (PIC),
and 111 hours on the Q400.

Colgan’s flight records indicated that the first officer had accumulated 2,244 hours of
total flying time, including 774 hours in turbine airplanes and on the Q400.

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Acc ... AR1001.pdf






.

Captain was a disaster, and shows what happens when companies get desperate to fill left seats. FO also spent the night in the crew room... shows what happens when you pay pilots crap.

Please, be respectful.

They are dead and are not here to defend themselves.

Thank you. Everyone, pilots, managers, trainers, companies. everyone has something to learn from this tragedy.

Respect indeed.

58

[canadian_aviator_4]

It was very clear before Jan 1st that flow was going to be ignored in favour of AC’s commercial interest. Here we are 6-7 months later and I don’t even think the grievance has be filled….

The grievance is just another piece of leverage the negotiating committee will use to improve conditions for those staying at the expense of those that came to jazz with the intention of going to AC.

[cdnavater]

It was very clear before Jan 1st that flow was going to be ignored in favour of AC’s commercial interest. Here we are 6-7 months later and I don’t even think the grievance has be filled….

The grievance is just another piece of leverage the negotiating committee will use to improve conditions for those staying at the expense of those that came to jazz with the intention of going to AC.

If your intention is to go to AC, go anywhere but here, please and thank you!
The flow experiment failed, it left us with a disgruntled group and a failing company. We need to improve it for those that want to be here and get rid of the flow altogether, maybe shut the portal permanently for new hires and keep those in the q who have already applied. Go back to the way it was when it worked, stayed in the right seat longer but made better money doing it.

[goleafsgo]

It was very clear before Jan 1st that flow was going to be ignored in favour of AC’s commercial interest. Here we are 6-7 months later and I don’t even think the grievance has be filled….

The grievance is just another piece of leverage the negotiating committee will use to improve conditions for those staying at the expense of those that came to jazz with the intention of going to AC.

A unions job should be to improve conditions at the company, not help people leave the company. I’d gladly vote for 0 flow if it meant a generous increase. People should want to come to jazz cause it’s a great place to work, not just as a stepping stone to ac and the union should be fighting to make that happen

[RoAF-Mig21]

A unions job should be to improve conditions at the company, not help people leave the company. I’d gladly vote for 0 flow if it meant a generous increase. People should want to come to jazz cause it’s a great place to work, not just as a stepping stone to ac and the union should be fighting to make that happen

Agreed. I remember how happy I was when I got the job at Jazz back in the day. It was a big big deal. Now I talk to 700 hrs guys that think "Oh, I'll do this too , if I have to"... No different than what I said when I worked the ramp... "I guess it must be done to move on"... It annoys me to see the new generation put down Jazz and the flying we do here. I had one guy go on a rant at how "lame" it was that Jazz pilots flew the Classic Dash.

Anyway... Times have changed, I'm getting old and bitter.

[flyingcanuck]

A unions job should be to improve conditions at the company, not help people leave the company. I’d gladly vote for 0 flow if it meant a generous increase. People should want to come to jazz cause it’s a great place to work, not just as a stepping stone to ac and the union should be fighting to make that happen

Agreed. I remember how happy I was when I got the job at Jazz back in the day. It was a big big deal. Now I talk to 700 hrs guys that think "Oh, I'll do this too , if I have to"... No different than what I said when I worked the ramp... "I guess it must be done to move on"... It annoys me to see the new generation put down Jazz and the flying we do here. I had one guy go on a rant at how "lame" it was that Jazz pilots flew the Classic Dash.

Anyway... Times have changed, I'm getting old and bitter.

eye.... roll, it ain't the current generation who put jazz in this situation

[cdnavater]

A unions job should be to improve conditions at the company, not help people leave the company. I’d gladly vote for 0 flow if it meant a generous increase. People should want to come to jazz cause it’s a great place to work, not just as a stepping stone to ac and the union should be fighting to make that happen

Agreed. I remember how happy I was when I got the job at Jazz back in the day. It was a big big deal. Now I talk to 700 hrs guys that think "Oh, I'll do this too , if I have to"... No different than what I said when I worked the ramp... "I guess it must be done to move on"... It annoys me to see the new generation put down Jazz and the flying we do here. I had one guy go on a rant at how "lame" it was that Jazz pilots flew the Classic Dash.

Anyway... Times have changed, I'm getting old and bitter.

eye.... roll, it ain't the current generation who put jazz in this situation

Just curious, what generation is it that accepted jobs at GGN and SR that put the downward pressure?
And, do you assign any blame to them or just the pilots who voted for a contract that the next generation is happy to accept but then complain incessantly about how hard down by they are?

[RoAF-Mig21]

eye.... roll, it ain't the current generation who put jazz in this situation

I'm not sure why you feel the need to place blame.

I was telling people that not too long ago it was a big deal to get a job at Jazz and one would count him or herself lucky to leave "The North" and have an airline job. That's all I was saying. I was extatic to finally be able to have a schedule, get flight passes and frankly not to have to put on engine tents after a 13+ hour duty day.