Negotiations

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flyinhigh
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Re: Negotiations

Post by flyinhigh »

JoeyBarton wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 7:22 am Funny how ALPA is seen as the messi at mainline. Hasn't produced anything really tangible since 2015 at Jazz..
100% depends on who has volunteered to run ALPA. Remember the MEC chair was the one pushing for the 17 year deal. A change in leadership can right the ship… sometimes.

Look at WJ. The new MEC had complete by in and succeeded, unlike CBA #1.
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rudder
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Re: Negotiations

Post by rudder »

flyinhigh wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 12:14 pm
JoeyBarton wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 7:22 am Funny how ALPA is seen as the messi at mainline. Hasn't produced anything really tangible since 2015 at Jazz..
100% depends on who has volunteered to run ALPA. Remember the MEC chair was the one pushing for the 17 year deal. A change in leadership can right the ship… sometimes.

Look at WJ. The new MEC had complete by in and succeeded, unlike CBA #1.
How do you get that when the objective of over half of the population (and over 80% of new hires) is to leave?

The answer is that you tailor the deal to meet the needs of those coming, those staying, and the parties to the CPA.

Asking for pay rates to be rationalized is not a demand, it is a necessity if Jazz hopes to meet its CPA obligations.

And fixing flow is a critical piece of recruitment and operational stability.

It would be great if Jazz pilots had the relatively straightforward bargaining world of mainline or WJ, but that is not the case. There are (effectively) three or four parties to every agreement that the Jazz pilots must appease.
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digits_
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Re: Negotiations

Post by digits_ »

rudder wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 12:26 pm
It would be great if Jazz pilots had the relatively straightforward bargaining world of mainline or WJ, but that is not the case. There are (effectively) three or four parties to every agreement that the Jazz pilots must satisfy.
Except for quitting. You can decide that all by yourself.
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rudder
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Re: Negotiations

Post by rudder »

digits_ wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 12:29 pm
rudder wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 12:26 pm
It would be great if Jazz pilots had the relatively straightforward bargaining world of mainline or WJ, but that is not the case. There are (effectively) three or four parties to every agreement that the Jazz pilots must satisfy.
Except for quitting. You can decide that all by yourself.
100%. And the frustration over 9 months of futility at the bargaining table(s) had made that the #1 option for many Jazz pilots.
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CaptDukeNukem
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Re: Negotiations

Post by CaptDukeNukem »

digits_ wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 12:29 pm
rudder wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 12:26 pm
It would be great if Jazz pilots had the relatively straightforward bargaining world of mainline or WJ, but that is not the case. There are (effectively) three or four parties to every agreement that the Jazz pilots must satisfy.
Except for quitting. You can decide that all by yourself.
Best decision I ever made. My only regret… is not leaving sooner.
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canadian_aviator_4
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Re: Negotiations

Post by canadian_aviator_4 »

CaptDukeNukem wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 8:01 pm
digits_ wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 12:29 pm
rudder wrote: Fri Jun 30, 2023 12:26 pm
It would be great if Jazz pilots had the relatively straightforward bargaining world of mainline or WJ, but that is not the case. There are (effectively) three or four parties to every agreement that the Jazz pilots must satisfy.
Except for quitting. You can decide that all by yourself.
Best decision I ever made. My only regret… is not leaving sooner.
It’s the only decision to make at jazz.
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Nick678
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Re: Negotiations

Post by Nick678 »

With the planned departure of 120 jazz pilots to AC in the fall and all the others going to other 705 how the hell does jazz plan to do this?
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prop2jet
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Re: Negotiations

Post by prop2jet »

Expect a revised CPA, timeline for reduction of fleet size happening sooner rather than later. Attrition to achieve the required baseline numbers more or less taken care of. Next up is a form of retention... so they will probably throw a bone in to satisfy those who remain...
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kiaszceski
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Re: Negotiations

Post by kiaszceski »

Nick678 wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 9:05 am With the planned departure of 120 jazz pilots to AC in the fall
Who said that? Seems unrealistic since they went from 20 per GS to 10 per GS Jazz pilots lately.
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truedude
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Re: Negotiations

Post by truedude »

kiaszceski wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 9:41 am
Nick678 wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 9:05 am With the planned departure of 120 jazz pilots to AC in the fall
Who said that? Seems unrealistic since they went from 20 per GS to 10 per GS Jazz pilots lately.
AC recently sent out a bunch of GS dates for Jazz pilots leading into the end of the year. Likely an attempt to try and stop a mass exodus. But it will have zero impact on those planing to leave to Westjet from YYC, many of whom never planned to leave prior to this mess.
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link821
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Re: Negotiations

Post by link821 »

kiaszceski wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 9:41 am
Nick678 wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 9:05 am With the planned departure of 120 jazz pilots to AC in the fall
Who said that? Seems unrealistic since they went from 20 per GS to 10 per GS Jazz pilots lately.
40 a month from September to December being scheduled rn. No word on plans for the start of the new year.
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swervin
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Re: Negotiations

Post by swervin »

125 calls going out. Started yesterday. First courses offered are for September.
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Nick678
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Re: Negotiations

Post by Nick678 »

Jazz held the number 1 slot for most cancelled flights world wide this past week…. With those pilots, how is this gonna go without?
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Man_in_the_sky
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Re: Negotiations

Post by Man_in_the_sky »

Why do you worry... Clearly, management know what they're doing! They have a plan! nothing seems to be a surprise to them! still surprised to send candidates to sim eval as only ''wanting'' to be a Jazzguy.. should grant a job offer !
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link821
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Re: Negotiations

Post by link821 »

Honestly though, where the hell is the union?! Over a month since the last communication that negotiations have resumed. How about a status update to the membership you’ve been elected to represent.
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truedude
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Re: Negotiations

Post by truedude »

link821 wrote: Wed Jul 05, 2023 12:26 pm Honestly though, where the hell is the union?! Over a month since the last communication that negotiations have resumed. How about a status update to the membership you’ve been elected to represent.
Maybe there is a good reason for that.
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link821
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Re: Negotiations

Post by link821 »

truedude wrote: Wed Jul 05, 2023 12:30 pm
link821 wrote: Wed Jul 05, 2023 12:26 pm Honestly though, where the hell is the union?! Over a month since the last communication that negotiations have resumed. How about a status update to the membership you’ve been elected to represent.
Maybe there is a good reason for that.
lol there better be.. how much longer do we accept a MEC that isn’t producing result during the one of the greatest periods of pilot leverage this industry has ever seen.
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truedude
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Re: Negotiations

Post by truedude »

link821 wrote: Wed Jul 05, 2023 12:38 pm
truedude wrote: Wed Jul 05, 2023 12:30 pm
link821 wrote: Wed Jul 05, 2023 12:26 pm Honestly though, where the hell is the union?! Over a month since the last communication that negotiations have resumed. How about a status update to the membership you’ve been elected to represent.
Maybe there is a good reason for that.
lol there better be.. how much longer do we accept a MEC that isn’t producing result during the one of the greatest periods of pilot leverage this industry has ever seen.
Can't force the company to pay more. But obviously things aren't working so great for them either.

We will get 1 of 3 updates. Either, we have a deal. Still talking. Or talks have once again ended. Both 1 and 3 will produce a communication. 2 won't. So I figure we are still on 2 in some form.
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GTFA
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Re: Negotiations

Post by GTFA »

link821 wrote: Wed Jul 05, 2023 12:38 pm
truedude wrote: Wed Jul 05, 2023 12:30 pm
link821 wrote: Wed Jul 05, 2023 12:26 pm Honestly though, where the hell is the union?! Over a month since the last communication that negotiations have resumed. How about a status update to the membership you’ve been elected to represent.
Maybe there is a good reason for that.
lol there better be.. how much longer do we accept a MEC that isn’t producing result during the one of the greatest periods of pilot leverage this industry has ever seen.
You are pointing your anger at the wrong target. Who writes our paycheques, hires our pilots, manages the revenue produced by our services?
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link821
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Re: Negotiations

Post by link821 »

GTFA wrote: Thu Jul 06, 2023 7:29 am
link821 wrote: Wed Jul 05, 2023 12:38 pm
truedude wrote: Wed Jul 05, 2023 12:30 pm

Maybe there is a good reason for that.
lol there better be.. how much longer do we accept a MEC that isn’t producing result during the one of the greatest periods of pilot leverage this industry has ever seen.
You are pointing your anger at the wrong target. Who writes our paycheques, hires our pilots, manages the revenue produced by our services?
No I’m mad at those guys too lol
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QKZXKV
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Re: Negotiations

Post by QKZXKV »

GTFA wrote: Thu Jul 06, 2023 7:29 am
link821 wrote: Wed Jul 05, 2023 12:38 pm
truedude wrote: Wed Jul 05, 2023 12:30 pm

Maybe there is a good reason for that.
lol there better be.. how much longer do we accept a MEC that isn’t producing result during the one of the greatest periods of pilot leverage this industry has ever seen.
You are pointing your anger at the wrong target. Who writes our paycheques, hires our pilots, manages the revenue produced by our services?
Not in the slightest! They're working together like old Air Nova/Alliance buddies would do!
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JHR
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Re: Negotiations

Post by JHR »

17 year agreement wasn't such a great idea was it
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Man_in_the_sky
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Re: Negotiations

Post by Man_in_the_sky »

JHR wrote: Thu Jul 06, 2023 12:09 pm 17 year agreement wasn't such a great idea was it
man, everytime i speak about this CA to anyone not aviation related, they jaw breaks !
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CaptDukeNukem
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Re: Negotiations

Post by CaptDukeNukem »

JHR wrote: Thu Jul 06, 2023 12:09 pm 17 year agreement wasn't such a great idea was it
Yup that’s almost half a career for most people.
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rudder
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Re: Negotiations

Post by rudder »

truedude wrote: Wed Jul 05, 2023 1:07 pm
link821 wrote: Wed Jul 05, 2023 12:38 pm
truedude wrote: Wed Jul 05, 2023 12:30 pm

Maybe there is a good reason for that.
lol there better be.. how much longer do we accept a MEC that isn’t producing result during the one of the greatest periods of pilot leverage this industry has ever seen.
Can't force the company to pay more. But obviously things aren't working so great for them either.

We will get 1 of 3 updates. Either, we have a deal. Still talking. Or talks have once again ended. Both 1 and 3 will produce a communication. 2 won't. So I figure we are still on 2 in some form.
34 days. Radio silence from the JAZ MEC.

The letters going out from AC with firm PIT dates for the fall is the first sign that there is at least some form of ‘plan’ going forward, at least as it applies to flow.

As for the rest….. who knows.

Jazz and ALPA seem to have a passive/aggressive largely dysfunctional relationship.

Doing nothing is a strategy. Just not a very effective one.
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