POE Media

[a2btrail]

#Embraer #E2 Incredible Journeys - Episode 8 | Canada

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKACFvUiLB4&t=1s

Wishing the Porter team the very best! The company will literally have to double +1 for their expansion plan to come to reality.

[cjp]

Growth is good, and end of July should be interesting.

[Chaxterium]

end of July should be interesting.

Definitely. I'm hoping for a little bump but it's the FOs on both types that really need a bump.

[carnie]

The CA numbers on the Q side is the real issue here. Last summer we had approx 130 CAs now we are down to mid 60s in YTZ and folks continue to leave.

[CaptDukeNukem]

The CA numbers on the Q side is the real issue here. Last summer we had approx 130 CAs now we are down to mid 60s in YTZ and folks continue to leave.

Pay bump coming. Hopefully it’s enough to retain.

[flyinhigh]

More than a pay bump coming. Having dozens of pilots with a various backgrounds will mean change. No pilot from emirates is staying here to work 18 days a month on our pay.

Among the credit protection, I think we will see some good improvements to everything.

[smooth]

Grooming aircraft has to go. No DEC from other major/legacy airlines are going to put up with pilot grooming aircraft.

More than a pay bump coming. Having dozens of pilots with a various backgrounds will mean change. No pilot from emirates is staying here to work 18 days a month on our pay.

Among the credit protection, I think we will see some good improvements to everything.

[Flyerone]

Grooming aircraft has to go. No DEC from other major/legacy airlines are going to put up with pilot grooming aircraft.

More than a pay bump coming. Having dozens of pilots with a various backgrounds will mean change. No pilot from emirates is staying here to work 18 days a month on our pay.

Among the credit protection, I think we will see some good improvements to everything.

Do E2 pilots groom as well or is it just on the Q ?

[Tbayer2021]

Grooming aircraft has to go. No DEC from other major/legacy airlines are going to put up with pilot grooming aircraft.

More than a pay bump coming. Having dozens of pilots with a various backgrounds will mean change. No pilot from emirates is staying here to work 18 days a month on our pay.

Among the credit protection, I think we will see some good improvements to everything.

Do E2 pilots groom as well or is it just on the Q ?

E2 also. One of their pilots is around these parts saying he has no problem with grooming.

[Hangry]

Douche move

[CaptDukeNukem]

Grooming aircraft has to go. No DEC from other major/legacy airlines are going to put up with pilot grooming aircraft.

Do E2 pilots groom as well or is it just on the Q ?

E2 also. One of their pilots is around these parts saying he has no problem with grooming.

WJ pilots also agreed to this for years. Again, it’s not at all stations. We don’t need to groom at half of outstations and also if the tail is terminating. This is residual from the Q operation. Things are changing… new company growing pains. If crossing a seatbelt is is the dealbreaker then don’t apply. But when it changes, don’t complain you missed out on hundreds of numbers in seniority.

[Fullflaps]

Do E2 pilots groom as well or is it just on the Q ?

E2 also. One of their pilots is around these parts saying he has no problem with grooming.

WJ pilots also agreed to this for years. Again, it’s not at all stations. We don’t need to groom at half of outstations and also if the tail is terminating. This is residual from the Q operation. Things are changing… new company growing pains. If crossing a seatbelt is is the dealbreaker then don’t apply. But when it changes, don’t complain you missed out on hundreds of numbers in seniority.

Grooming is more than crossing a seatbelt lol.. it s picking passengers' garbage, puke or whatever, it s vaccuming, it s empyting trash bins, toilets, etc... and everywhere the E2 goes to have groomers.. frankly, cant believe you guys didnt vote for a union yet.. if porter is cheap enough not to pay for groomers, guess what else are they capable of with that cheap mentality ? Get a union.

[CaptDukeNukem]

E2 also. One of their pilots is around these parts saying he has no problem with grooming.

WJ pilots also agreed to this for years. Again, it’s not at all stations. We don’t need to groom at half of outstations and also if the tail is terminating. This is residual from the Q operation. Things are changing… new company growing pains. If crossing a seatbelt is is the dealbreaker then don’t apply. But when it changes, don’t complain you missed out on hundreds of numbers in seniority.

Grooming is more than crossing a seatbelt lol.. it s picking passengers' garbage, puke or whatever, it s vaccuming, it s empyting trash bins, toilets, etc... and everywhere the E2 goes to have groomers.. frankly, cant believe you guys didnt vote for a union yet.. if porter is cheap enough not to pay for groomers, guess what else are they capable of with that cheap mentality ? Get a union.

Nah man. You’re wrong. The CSR’s do most of the grooming. I’ve never touched a vacuum or cleaned up puke. I’ve only ever crossed belts and folded tray tables down so someone else can clean them easier.

[Chaxterium]

E2 also. One of their pilots is around these parts saying he has no problem with grooming.

I'm going to assume you're talking about me.

I never said I have no problem grooming. In fact my exact words were "it sucks". But I also said that as of right now it's required. And I'm not going to stand by twiddling my thumbs while the flight attendants are grooming and my post-flight duties are complete. This is neither "complacency" nor "apathy"—as you so eloquently put it.

I'm quite certain it will change shortly. I will do what I can to speed up that process. But for now, I will help the FAs whenever I can.

[Chaxterium]

Grooming is more than crossing a seatbelt lol.. it s picking passengers' garbage, puke or whatever, it s vaccuming, it s empyting trash bins, toilets, etc

It's literally crossing seatbelts my dude. It's really not the end of the world. I couldn't even tell you where to get a vacuum.

frankly, cant believe you guys didnt vote for a union yet..

I've worked for a couple airlines with unions. Pros and cons. I've been with Porter for only a few months and I'm looking at a second raise in that time. There is definitely a good relationship between the pilots and management but I can easily see the expansion putting a strain on that. And when you consider that a good portion of the DECs they'll be hiring will be coming from airlines with strong unions it's something I can definitely see popping up. Speaking for myself though I'm quite happy with things the way they are. The company appears to understand that improvements needs to be made and they appear to be doing just that.

[Fullflaps]

Grooming is more than crossing a seatbelt lol.. it s picking passengers' garbage, puke or whatever, it s vaccuming, it s empyting trash bins, toilets, etc

It's literally crossing seatbelts my dude. It's really not the end of the world. I couldn't even tell you where to get a vacuum.

frankly, cant believe you guys didnt vote for a union yet..

I've worked for a couple airlines with unions. Pros and cons. I've been with Porter for only a few months and I'm looking at a second raise in that time. There is definitely a good relationship between the pilots and management but I can easily see the expansion putting a strain on that. And when you consider that a good portion of the DECs they'll be hiring will be coming from airlines with strong unions it's something I can definitely see popping up. Speaking for myself though I'm quite happy with things the way they are. The company appears to understand that improvements needs to be made and they appear to be doing just that.

The union isnt for when a company is expanding and everything is rainbows and unicorns, it s for when there's a downturn, downgrades, paycuts, mmg cuts, crew sched doing whatever they want, expenses cut ( do your own groomings, hotels, perdiums, etc) it s also when your boss decides to sell or retire, aka merges. Who's gonna protect you ? Who's gonna prevent the company from doing WHATEVER they want ? Do not get me wrong, I hate unions, they're like the mob, but Without one, any merges for example will put you in BOTL. Havent any of you learned anything ?? Sure everything is fine now, but when times comes, you ll be running like chickens in a farm. Get a union, otherwise enjoy it now while you can.

[smooth]

Can't agree more, during covid, they gave employees 6 days notice before shutting down the operation. With union, this won't happen. This is a great example you need a union to protect you when shit goes down. FOAG is not a contract, it's a guideline.

Grooming is more than crossing a seatbelt lol.. it s picking passengers' garbage, puke or whatever, it s vaccuming, it s empyting trash bins, toilets, etc

It's literally crossing seatbelts my dude. It's really not the end of the world. I couldn't even tell you where to get a vacuum.

frankly, cant believe you guys didnt vote for a union yet..

I've worked for a couple airlines with unions. Pros and cons. I've been with Porter for only a few months and I'm looking at a second raise in that time. There is definitely a good relationship between the pilots and management but I can easily see the expansion putting a strain on that. And when you consider that a good portion of the DECs they'll be hiring will be coming from airlines with strong unions it's something I can definitely see popping up. Speaking for myself though I'm quite happy with things the way they are. The company appears to understand that improvements needs to be made and they appear to be doing just that.

The union isnt for when a company is expanding and everything is rainbows and unicorns, it s for when there's a downturn, downgrades, paycuts, mmg cuts, crew sched doing whatever they want, expenses cut ( do your own groomings, hotels, perdiums, etc) it s also when your boss decides to sell or retire, aka merges. Who's gonna protect you ? Who's gonna prevent the company from doing WHATEVER they want ? Do not get me wrong, I hate unions, they're like the mob, but Without one, any merges for example will put you in BOTL. Havent any of you learned anything ?? Sure everything is fine now, but when times comes, you ll be running like chickens in a farm. Get a union, otherwise enjoy it now while you can.

[Hangry]

Far too large a percentage of Canadian pilots are clueless. Totally ignoring history. Same old storey again and again.

While these Porter pilots are easy examples it’s hardly a problem unique to them.

[Tbayer2021]

Grooming is more than crossing a seatbelt lol.. it s picking passengers' garbage, puke or whatever, it s vaccuming, it s empyting trash bins, toilets, etc

It's literally crossing seatbelts my dude. It's really not the end of the world. I couldn't even tell you where to get a vacuum.

frankly, cant believe you guys didnt vote for a union yet..

I've worked for a couple airlines with unions. Pros and cons. I've been with Porter for only a few months and I'm looking at a second raise in that time. There is definitely a good relationship between the pilots and management but I can easily see the expansion putting a strain on that. And when you consider that a good portion of the DECs they'll be hiring will be coming from airlines with strong unions it's something I can definitely see popping up. Speaking for myself though I'm quite happy with things the way they are. The company appears to understand that improvements needs to be made and they appear to be doing just that.

You couldn't have put how clueless you really are any clearer. Why don't you ask the Senior E2 Cpts, the ones that were there over 10 years by the time the E2 arrived, what the company did when it came to pay. Think they gave them their YoS? Best they got was if you had over 10 years on the Q, you got year 2 on the E2. Porter seems to be realizing that they must up their WAWCON significantly over the last few months to stay somewhat relevant, which is definitely the correct response to the realities of the market. But showing up exactly during that time and assuming it has always been like this? If there is such a great relationship, as you put it, why do you think Porter has struggled with attraction and retention?

Like others have said, companies can change their tune when the market isn't in their favour. A union is there for when the pilot market is in the company's favour.

[Timetoflyagain]

The union isnt for when a company is expanding and everything is rainbows and unicorns, it s for when there's a downturn, downgrades, paycuts, mmg cuts, crew sched doing whatever they want, expenses cut ( do your own groomings, hotels, perdiums, etc) it s also when your boss decides to sell or retire, aka merges. Who's gonna protect you ? Who's gonna prevent the company from doing WHATEVER they want ? Do not get me wrong, I hate unions, they're like the mob, but Without one, any merges for example will put you in BOTL. Havent any of you learned anything ?? Sure everything is fine now, but when times comes, you ll be running like chickens in a farm. Get a union, otherwise enjoy it now while you can.
[/quote]

Hmmm..wow..well, there’s this thing called the Canada Labour Code that basically covers all of this for the one low price of 0%. What small % of the working population is covered by a union? The rest is covered by labour law. And when you’re covered by a CA you forfeit all of your rights..so if the union doesn’t like you, or decides your grievance isn’t worth fighting for, or is protecting more in the club senior members you’re SOL. ..and yes, the non union mergers are covered by the CLC. A union is only as good as it’s MEC…let’s review…how’s that ALPA “Career Contract We’re not asking” Jazz contract working out? The MEC gave a contract for the top 15% of the list, everyone else simply got paycheck deductions, to say the least. How’s the ALPA Flair contract working out? Bottom feeder worthy. For decades ACPA did exactly what? Flat pay, best fit scheduling, cargo rates..hmmm..the senior driver controlled MEC negotiated everything for the WB senior drivers. Everyone else simply paid and paid. WJPA did the same and helped a smaller portion of the total membership, until there was enough new blood to overthrow them. How’s ALPA swoop vs ALPA WJ working out…some Swoop Capt’s DOA..paid their dues but sorry..too bad..we’re not protecting your seat. Now we’ll have ringside seats as ALPA and Unifor fight over the Sunwing merger. If ALPA was truly for all pilots they would say, for instance, a year 3 737 driver will make $X/hour, Y benefits, Z pension etc. Doesn’t matter what uniform you wear, the colour paint on the tail, legacy, startup whatever. ALPA is a business that collects dues, gives advice, screams safety unless a member did something stupid, and blames the pilots afterwards for voting yes..but don’t worry…we’ll do it all again in a few years..just keep the cash coming for now, and no, you can’t see the MEC’s expenses and accounts. Every non union pilot is protected by the Canadian Labour Code. How many dues paying union members also had no income over covid? Lost all their benefits? Did the union top them up?

[vanislepilot]

The union isnt for when a company is expanding and everything is rainbows and unicorns, it s for when there's a downturn, downgrades, paycuts, mmg cuts, crew sched doing whatever they want, expenses cut ( do your own groomings, hotels, perdiums, etc) it s also when your boss decides to sell or retire, aka merges. Who's gonna protect you ? Who's gonna prevent the company from doing WHATEVER they want ? Do not get me wrong, I hate unions, they're like the mob, but Without one, any merges for example will put you in BOTL. Havent any of you learned anything ?? Sure everything is fine now, but when times comes, you ll be running like chickens in a farm. Get a union, otherwise enjoy it now while you can.

Hmmm..wow..well, there’s this thing called the Canada Labour Code that basically covers all of this for the one low price of 0%. What small % of the working population is covered by a union? The rest is covered by labour law. And when you’re covered by a CA you forfeit all of your rights..so if the union doesn’t like you, or decides your grievance isn’t worth fighting for, or is protecting more in the club senior members you’re SOL. ..and yes, the non union mergers are covered by the CLC. A union is only as good as it’s MEC…let’s review…how’s that ALPA “Career Contract We’re not asking” Jazz contract working out? The MEC gave a contract for the top 15% of the list, everyone else simply got paycheck deductions, to say the least. How’s the ALPA Flair contract working out? Bottom feeder worthy. For decades ACPA did exactly what? Flat pay, best fit scheduling, cargo rates..hmmm..the senior driver controlled MEC negotiated everything for the WB senior drivers. Everyone else simply paid and paid. WJPA did the same and helped a smaller portion of the total membership, until there was enough new blood to overthrow them. How’s ALPA swoop vs ALPA WJ working out…some Swoop Capt’s DOA..paid their dues but sorry..too bad..we’re not protecting your seat. Now we’ll have ringside seats as ALPA and Unifor fight over the Sunwing merger. If ALPA was truly for all pilots they would say, for instance, a year 3 737 driver will make $X/hour, Y benefits, Z pension etc. Doesn’t matter what uniform you wear, the colour paint on the tail, legacy, startup whatever. ALPA is a business that collects dues, gives advice, screams safety unless a member did something stupid, and blames the pilots afterwards for voting yes..but don’t worry…we’ll do it all again in a few years..just keep the cash coming for now, and no, you can’t see the MEC’s expenses and accounts. Every non union pilot is protected by the Canadian Labour Code. How many dues paying union members also had no income over covid? Lost all their benefits? Did the union top them up?
[/quote]


Bro do you have any idea what you’re even talking about? Swoop capts paying their dues? Ya right. I think ALPA did it very fairly. Swoop captains going FO on the 737 at WJ will keep their captain pay until their FO pay scale catches up and takes over. It not longer matters what you wear. Quit spouting nonsense and anti union propaganda when POE is in a major need of a union. Porter peeps, keep fighting! Strength in numbers!!!

[REFPLUS10]

end of July should be interesting.

Definitely. I'm hoping for a little bump but it's the FOs on both types that really need a bump.

+1 compensation for FO's on both fleet's is embarrassing.

Time for a union. Plain and simple. Imagine you walk in and see your doctor mopping the floors before your surgery. That is the same as passenger seeing their pilot pick gum off the seats.

[schnitzel2k3]

end of July should be interesting.

Definitely. I'm hoping for a little bump but it's the FOs on both types that really need a bump.

+1 compensation for FO's on both fleet's is embarrassing.

Time for a union. Plain and simple. The company does whatever they want; whenever they want. They do not have the pilot's best interests at heart, despite what propaganda they push your way. Imagine you walk in and see your doctor mopping the floors before your surgery. That is the same as passenger seeing their pilot pick gum off the seats.

I remember deadheading after a flight on an unrelated carrier and some passenger makes unfortunate eye contact and starts saying 'Sir....sir, there is cum on my seat'.

I was like 'DEFINITELY not my problem bud' as I walked by.

'Sir, please there is gum on my seat, can you move me or clean it'.

After I stopped laughing, I flagged the inflight. I stopped paying attention but they called back a groomer I believe.

Definitely shouldn't be an inflight or flight crews responsibility to clean the interior between turns - ESPECIALLY when those duties are effectively UNPAID.

[pitottubey]

WJ pilots also agreed to this for years. Again, it’s not at all stations. We don’t need to groom at half of outstations and also if the tail is terminating. This is residual from the Q operation. Things are changing… new company growing pains. If crossing a seatbelt is is the dealbreaker then don’t apply. But when it changes, don’t complain you missed out on hundreds of numbers in seniority.

Grooming is more than crossing a seatbelt lol.. it s picking passengers' garbage, puke or whatever, it s vaccuming, it s empyting trash bins, toilets, etc... and everywhere the E2 goes to have groomers.. frankly, cant believe you guys didnt vote for a union yet.. if porter is cheap enough not to pay for groomers, guess what else are they capable of with that cheap mentality ? Get a union.

Nah man. You’re wrong. The CSR’s do most of the grooming. I’ve never touched a vacuum or cleaned up puke. I’ve only ever crossed belts and folded tray tables down so someone else can clean them easier.

Don't forget picking the garbage out from the seat pockets and throwing it out! Gotta get those plastic gloves on first, it's part of the grooming job at Porter. The CSRs generally only do the vacuuming+tray table wiping, and all the garbage and seat belts are handled by the FAs and pilots, at least on the Q. What a joke, it confounds me people are actually defending grooming. I see it as beaten dog syndrome.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Thread drift, this was supposed to be about media. Now we’re talking garbage lol.
Let’s move this discussion to the grooming thread so others can comment on MD’s social media capabilities