Signing bonus of DEC Dash

[higherisbetter]

$25,000 one time signing bonus for Q400 DEC. With YOS respected with previous carrier. Wondering how many Jazz / Pal / Encore captains sending their resume.

[CaptDukeNukem]

$25,000 one time signing bonus for Q400 DEC. With YOS respected with previous carrier. Wondering how many Jazz / Pal / Encore captains sending their resume.

Yup. I can see many coming over for that.

[cdnavater]

$25,000 one time signing bonus for Q400 DEC. With YOS respected with previous carrier. Wondering how many Jazz / Pal / Encore captains sending their resume.

In the other thread, the letter makes it clear the YOS are only for pay, which is great but you are still bottom feeder in the mean time. Also, your top 15 year pay is still less than my current pay, not by much but still less and still lose all my seniority for everything else. You will maybe attract some 5-8 year pilots but above that will be a bit of a sell still.

[CaptDukeNukem]

$25,000 one time signing bonus for Q400 DEC. With YOS respected with previous carrier. Wondering how many Jazz / Pal / Encore captains sending their resume.

In the other thread, the letter makes it clear the YOS are only for pay, which is great but you are still bottom feeder in the mean time. Also, your top 15 year pay is still less than my current pay, not by much but still less and still lose all my seniority for everything else. You will maybe attract some 5-8 year pilots but above that will be a bit of a sell still.

Yes, pilots at jazz hired pre-2015 have for sure a different view on this deal. But personally, I believe this deal to be attractive to many. At the very least porter is doing something to attract talent. This deal also comes with a deadline, so Q pilots gonna have to make a decision next few months.

[TeePeeCreeper]

Am I the only one thinking that 25K once taxed as a “bonus” doesn’t leave very much skin in the game?

Rejoice all you want… but it’s a paltry sum at the end of the day for someone who’s already typed.

Ah Canadian aviation, what a cluster f$&k!

[CaptDukeNukem]

Am I the only one thinking that 25K once taxed as a “bonus” doesn’t leave very much skin in the game?

Rejoice all you want… but it’s a paltry sum at the end of the day for someone who’s already typed.

Ah Canadian aviation, what a cluster f$&k!

Considering this is a first in Canada for something like this,“Cluster f$&k” as it may be in your words… Yes, let’s rejoice. No one else taking this step. Mixed with YOS for pay purposes and possibly not having to commute, It’s a good step forward.

What were you expecting? 100k signing bonuses? Come on.

[TeePeeCreeper]

Am I the only one thinking that 25K once taxed as a “bonus” doesn’t leave very much skin in the game?

Rejoice all you want… but it’s a paltry sum at the end of the day for someone who’s already typed.

Ah Canadian aviation, what a cluster f$&k!

Considering this is a first in Canada for something like this,“Cluster f$&k” as it may be in your words… Yes, let’s rejoice. No one else taking this step. Mixed with YOS for pay purposes and possibly not having to commute, It’s a good step forward.

What were you expecting? 100k signing bonuses? Come on.

A step in the right direction? Sure.

However if we consider how long we’ve languished behind and whored ourselves out… Oups, that’s right! Let’s rejoice in screwing a current employer who typed a candidate by jumping ship for a meager sign in bonus, taxed as such?

Your right. It’s more than a cluster f$&k! It’s a great circle jerk for a paltry sum.

My original comment and this one stands.

(No disrespect towards Team Raccon intended CaptDukeNukem. You guys have a great product and I’ve yet to have had a negative experience with your airline as a pax!)

[CaptDukeNukem]

Am I the only one thinking that 25K once taxed as a “bonus” doesn’t leave very much skin in the game?

Rejoice all you want… but it’s a paltry sum at the end of the day for someone who’s already typed.

Ah Canadian aviation, what a cluster f$&k!

Considering this is a first in Canada for something like this,“Cluster f$&k” as it may be in your words… Yes, let’s rejoice. No one else taking this step. Mixed with YOS for pay purposes and possibly not having to commute, It’s a good step forward.

What were you expecting? 100k signing bonuses? Come on.

A step in the right direction? Sure.

However if we consider how long we’ve languished behind and whored ourselves out… Oups, that’s right! Let’s rejoice in screwing a current employer who typed a candidate by jumping ship for a meager sign in bonus, taxed as such?

Your right. It’s more than a cluster f$&k! It’s a great circle jerk for a paltry sum.

My original comment and this one stands.

(No disrespect towards Team Raccon intended CaptDukeNukem. You guys have a great product and I’ve yet to have had a negative experience with your airline as a pax!)

It is a great product I agree. No offense taken.

I never said it was more than a “cluster f$&k”. You’re saying that yourself lol.

What you’re saying is that loyalty to your employer because they gave you a type rating is more important than WAWCON. Employers have proven to have Zero loyalty to employees more than countless times.

Headhunting exists in all industries. It’s what makes a company better than the others.

I just think there’s better to come than what was once had on Canadian aviation. You’re right, it’s been crap for years. But someone gotta make a move, and hopefully we start figuring it out.

[Dronepiper]

Does porter have an rrsp match program? What is the %?

[braaap Braap]

Does porter have an rrsp match program? What is the %?

4% for the first 4 years, an additional percent/year beyond that up to a max of 9%

[cdnavater]

$25,000 one time signing bonus for Q400 DEC. With YOS respected with previous carrier. Wondering how many Jazz / Pal / Encore captains sending their resume.

In the other thread, the letter makes it clear the YOS are only for pay, which is great but you are still bottom feeder in the mean time. Also, your top 15 year pay is still less than my current pay, not by much but still less and still lose all my seniority for everything else. You will maybe attract some 5-8 year pilots but above that will be a bit of a sell still.

Yes, pilots at jazz hired pre-2015 have for sure a different view on this deal. But personally, I believe this deal to be attractive to many. At the very least porter is doing something to attract talent. This deal also comes with a deadline, so Q pilots gonna have to make a decision next few months.

You will definitely get some close to retirement types who will double dip, you will also get a lot of E175 typed with this new scale, have to admit it has me thinking.
I’m still a bit too close to retirement to risk it, not close enough that I could double dip myself otherwise my next bid would be the Ejet, lol.
You are right about the other thing, there is no loyalty from the mothership, they don’t give a shit about us, if Porter wants to target specific pilots with bonuses, so be it. I noticed PAL has a bond, pardon me, training agreement, so it might be a difficult decision for anyone with a fresh type from them.
I have never heard a hint of Jazz implementing a training bond, but if pilots are willing to go to PAL with one why wouldn’t they come to Jazz. We are still hiring, no one is immediately upgradable and your new deal will very likely poach some more Captains, not sure how Jazz will cop with this. I’m sure the 120 that have their fall course dates are not going anywhere, maybe AC will repeat that with another 120 winter courses shortly.
Maybe AC will buy Jazz and merge operations essentially making all Jazz pilots AC pilots with the list battle to distract from negotiations, that’s what I would do if I was AC.
One thing for sure, if they have a plan to stop the bleeding, they should do it soon!
Last thought, some of the QOL items mentioned by braap braap are concerning, pay scale aside, you guys do have some issues with not having a proper CBA.
You guys should be seriously looking at ALPA, Porter has big plans they won’t risk those with a big battle and with special deals eg; pilots starting at a higher pay scale than some of your current pilots will most definitely cause some strife, now would be a great time to form a proper union.
Good luck

[rudder]

Maybe AC will buy Jazz and merge operations essentially making all Jazz pilots AC pilots with the list battle to distract from negotiations, that’s what I would do if I was AC.

Of all the things that could happen, merging Jazz with mainline is not one of them.

However, a reacquisition of Jazz by AC is certainly possible. Simply a return to pre-CCAA wholly owned subsidiary status.

[cdnavater]

Maybe AC will buy Jazz and merge operations essentially making all Jazz pilots AC pilots with the list battle to distract from negotiations, that’s what I would do if I was AC.

Of all the things that could happen, merging Jazz with mainline is not one of them.

However, a reacquisition of Jazz by AC is certainly possible. Simply a return to pre-CCAA wholly owned subsidiary status.

A gentleman’s bet then, AC acquiring Jazz does nothing to stem the outgoing pilots from leaving, especially if they are not willing to entertain a proper wage increase.
A merging has several benefits to AC, it will reduce the costs associated with separate OCs, the pilots are now AC pilots and wages would be negotiated by one bargaining unit. It also has the effect of distraction, both ALPA MECs will be looking at protecting their members in the merge.
How many Jazz pilots would leave if they were suddenly looking at being on the AC pilot list, my guess is very very few.

[rudder]

Maybe AC will buy Jazz and merge operations essentially making all Jazz pilots AC pilots with the list battle to distract from negotiations, that’s what I would do if I was AC.

Of all the things that could happen, merging Jazz with mainline is not one of them.

However, a reacquisition of Jazz by AC is certainly possible. Simply a return to pre-CCAA wholly owned subsidiary status.

A gentleman’s bet then, AC acquiring Jazz does nothing to stem the outgoing pilots from leaving, especially if they are not willing to entertain a proper wage increase.
A merging has several benefits to AC, it will reduce the costs associated with separate OCs, the pilots are now AC pilots and wages would be negotiated by one bargaining unit. It also has the effect of distraction, both ALPA MECs will be looking at protecting their members in the merge.
How many Jazz pilots would leave if they were suddenly looking at being on the AC pilot list, my guess is very very few.

Up until the latest POE pay/recruitment initiative, one could have argued that there were around 500 active Jazz pilots that were never going to leave. Now that 500 number is no longer realistic. Most can go to POE as DEC and either maintain or increase their pay rate. Many did the same by moving to FLAIR.

Similarly, most of those 500 had the opportunity to go to AC over the years and chose not to. An offer of employment at AC - even via merger- is not what most of them are looking for.

Inserting a merger scenario into any discussion with the mainline pilots is a poison pill. There are many other joint initiatives that would have a far higher possibility of success.

The reality right now is POE is playing offence, AC is playing defence, and Jazz is not even playing. They are sitting in the stands watching the game.

Hope is not a strategy and inaction is a choice.

And while all of this is going on, individual pilots should be making decisions that are best for them selves based on all current available information and circumstances. Certainly things may change, but the game is going on and there is no pause button.

[cdnavater]

Of all the things that could happen, merging Jazz with mainline is not one of them.

However, a reacquisition of Jazz by AC is certainly possible. Simply a return to pre-CCAA wholly owned subsidiary status.

A gentleman’s bet then, AC acquiring Jazz does nothing to stem the outgoing pilots from leaving, especially if they are not willing to entertain a proper wage increase.
A merging has several benefits to AC, it will reduce the costs associated with separate OCs, the pilots are now AC pilots and wages would be negotiated by one bargaining unit. It also has the effect of distraction, both ALPA MECs will be looking at protecting their members in the merge.
How many Jazz pilots would leave if they were suddenly looking at being on the AC pilot list, my guess is very very few.

Up until the latest POE pay/recruitment initiative, one could have argued that there were around 500 active Jazz pilots that were never going to leave. Now that 500 number is no longer realistic. Most can go to POE as DEC and either maintain or increase their pay rate. Many did the same by moving to FLAIR.

Similarly, most of those 500 had the opportunity to go to AC over the years and chose not to. An offer of employment at AC - even via merger- is not what most of them are looking for.

Inserting a merger scenario into any discussion with the mainline pilots is a poison pill. There are many other joint initiatives that would have a far higher possibility of success.

The reality right now is POE is playing offence, AC is playing defence, and Jazz is not even playing. They are sitting in the stands watching the game.

Hope is not a strategy and inaction is a choice.

And while all of this is going on, individual pilots should be making decisions that are best for them selves based on all current available information and circumstances. Certainly things may change, but the game is going on and there is no pause button.

I agree with most of what you say fairly often, I just think this time you might be wrong. The poison pill is exactly why AC could be considering this route, it will divide the groups who will now be looking to protect their members best interest.
As for the 500, I agree, most of them are/were not considering AC because they would have lost too much in any flow/pml scenario. A merger would not be that, it would have to consider all that, we would not be “new hires” and all that goes with that.
I ask you this, with presumably 5 years to go for your retirement and a merger announcement, would you go to Porter or stick it out and see what happens.
How many of the current Jazz pilot roster would leave if they were looking at a seniority number, whatever that looks like or roll the dice with Porter and join AC down the road as a new hire.
I believe at this point the only real option AC has if they want Jazz(aircraft) to remain as a going concern is to buy it and merge it into the operations, the other extremely unlikely option is a wage increase enough to keep pilots on property operating 76/78 seat aircraft. Which scenario is cheaper for AC, that will answer the question of what direction they might be heading.

[TheAlcalde]

The reality right now is POE is playing offence, AC is playing defence, and Jazz is not even playing. They are sitting in the stands watching the game.

Hope is not a strategy and inaction is a choice.

I hope KOB And MS read this.

[truedude]

The reality right now is POE is playing offence, AC is playing defence, and Jazz is not even playing. They are sitting in the stands watching the game.

Hope is not a strategy and inaction is a choice.

I hope KOB And MS read this.

MS's head is so far up his own ass, he hasn't seen daylight for years.

[Transition9er2]

A gentleman’s bet then, AC acquiring Jazz does nothing to stem the outgoing pilots from leaving, especially if they are not willing to entertain a proper wage increase.
A merging has several benefits to AC, it will reduce the costs associated with separate OCs, the pilots are now AC pilots and wages would be negotiated by one bargaining unit. It also has the effect of distraction, both ALPA MECs will be looking at protecting their members in the merge.
How many Jazz pilots would leave if they were suddenly looking at being on the AC pilot list, my guess is very very few.

Up until the latest POE pay/recruitment initiative, one could have argued that there were around 500 active Jazz pilots that were never going to leave. Now that 500 number is no longer realistic. Most can go to POE as DEC and either maintain or increase their pay rate. Many did the same by moving to FLAIR.

Similarly, most of those 500 had the opportunity to go to AC over the years and chose not to. An offer of employment at AC - even via merger- is not what most of them are looking for.

Inserting a merger scenario into any discussion with the mainline pilots is a poison pill. There are many other joint initiatives that would have a far higher possibility of success.

The reality right now is POE is playing offence, AC is playing defence, and Jazz is not even playing. They are sitting in the stands watching the game.

Hope is not a strategy and inaction is a choice.

And while all of this is going on, individual pilots should be making decisions that are best for them selves based on all current available information and circumstances. Certainly things may change, but the game is going on and there is no pause button.

I agree with most of what you say fairly often, I just think this time you might be wrong. The poison pill is exactly why AC could be considering this route, it will divide the groups who will now be looking to protect their members best interest.
As for the 500, I agree, most of them are/were not considering AC because they would have lost too much in any flow/pml scenario. A merger would not be that, it would have to consider all that, we would not be “new hires” and all that goes with that.
I ask you this, with presumably 5 years to go for your retirement and a merger announcement, would you go to Porter or stick it out and see what happens.
How many of the current Jazz pilot roster would leave if they were looking at a seniority number, whatever that looks like or roll the dice with Porter and join AC down the road as a new hire.
I believe at this point the only real option AC has if they want Jazz(aircraft) to remain as a going concern is to buy it and merge it into the operations, the other extremely unlikely option is a wage increase enough to keep pilots on property operating 76/78 seat aircraft. Which scenario is cheaper for AC, that will answer the question of what direction they might be heading.

Cdnaviator, with all due respect I think you’re giving Jazz and the Jazz pilot group way more credit than they have.

I get it, you want a merger with AC to happen real bad, it would be the best case scenario for and everyone still at Jazz. I agree with you and (as an ex Jazz guy) I certainly hope it happens.

Unfortunately, Jazz doesn’t have as much pull as they used to in their relationship with AC and AC is slowly putting distance between them and Jazz. Flow has stalled, negotiations with pay have stalled, reduced flying across the country, LOA’s being offered to FA’s… the list goes on.

I hate to say it, but take the emotion out of the equation and look at the situation through AC’s eyes. It’s doesn’t look good for Jazz.

I could see AC buying Porter long before they even consider buying Jazz. Porter is a direct threat to AC at the moment and AC is actively putting the 220, Max and Rouge on a lot of Jazz routes and bringing that flying in-house.

AC is treating Jazz as a necessary evil, they’re actively cutting them out as quickly as they can.

As I said, I certainly hope I’m wrong and Jazz comes out of this significantly better for it. Unfortunately the reality of the situation is much different when you take the emotion out of it and look at it from a business perspective. AC doesn’t give a sh!t about causing confusion in the pilot ranks, pitting the unions against each other or any other scenario that would disrupt the “pilot group”. All AC cares about is money and the share holders… that’s what drives their decision making.

For anyone considering joining Jazz I hope it is only because you’ve exhausted all other options. Jazz is quickly becoming a dead-end career opportunity and it’ll cause more harm than good.

IMO

Also, this is a Porter thread. Best to bring this conversation back to the appropriate place.

[cdnavater]

Up until the latest POE pay/recruitment initiative, one could have argued that there were around 500 active Jazz pilots that were never going to leave. Now that 500 number is no longer realistic. Most can go to POE as DEC and either maintain or increase their pay rate. Many did the same by moving to FLAIR.

Similarly, most of those 500 had the opportunity to go to AC over the years and chose not to. An offer of employment at AC - even via merger- is not what most of them are looking for.

Inserting a merger scenario into any discussion with the mainline pilots is a poison pill. There are many other joint initiatives that would have a far higher possibility of success.

The reality right now is POE is playing offence, AC is playing defence, and Jazz is not even playing. They are sitting in the stands watching the game.

Hope is not a strategy and inaction is a choice.

And while all of this is going on, individual pilots should be making decisions that are best for them selves based on all current available information and circumstances. Certainly things may change, but the game is going on and there is no pause button.

I agree with most of what you say fairly often, I just think this time you might be wrong. The poison pill is exactly why AC could be considering this route, it will divide the groups who will now be looking to protect their members best interest.
As for the 500, I agree, most of them are/were not considering AC because they would have lost too much in any flow/pml scenario. A merger would not be that, it would have to consider all that, we would not be “new hires” and all that goes with that.
I ask you this, with presumably 5 years to go for your retirement and a merger announcement, would you go to Porter or stick it out and see what happens.
How many of the current Jazz pilot roster would leave if they were looking at a seniority number, whatever that looks like or roll the dice with Porter and join AC down the road as a new hire.
I believe at this point the only real option AC has if they want Jazz(aircraft) to remain as a going concern is to buy it and merge it into the operations, the other extremely unlikely option is a wage increase enough to keep pilots on property operating 76/78 seat aircraft. Which scenario is cheaper for AC, that will answer the question of what direction they might be heading.

Cdnaviator, with all due respect I think you’re giving Jazz and the Jazz pilot group way more credit than they have.

I get it, you want a merger with AC to happen real bad, it would be the best case scenario for and everyone still at Jazz. I agree with you and (as an ex Jazz guy) I certainly hope it happens.

Unfortunately, Jazz doesn’t have as much pull as they used to in their relationship with AC and AC is slowly putting distance between them and Jazz. Flow has stalled, negotiations with pay have stalled, reduced flying across the country, LOA’s being offered to FA’s… the list goes on.

I hate to say it, but take the emotion out of the equation and look at the situation through AC’s eyes. It’s doesn’t look good for Jazz.

I could see AC buying Porter long before they even consider buying Jazz. Porter is a direct threat to AC at the moment and AC is actively putting the 220, Max and Rouge on a lot of Jazz routes and bringing that flying in-house.

AC is treating Jazz as a necessary evil, they’re actively cutting them out as quickly as they can.

As I said, I certainly hope I’m wrong and Jazz comes out of this significantly better for it. Unfortunately the reality of the situation is much different when you take the emotion out of it and look at it from a business perspective. AC doesn’t give a sh!t about causing confusion in the pilot ranks, pitting the unions against each other or any other scenario that would disrupt the “pilot group”. All AC cares about is money and the share holders… that’s what drives their decision making.

For anyone considering joining Jazz I hope it is only because you’ve exhausted all other options. Jazz is quickly becoming a dead-end career opportunity and it’ll cause more harm than good.

IMO

Also, this is a Porter thread. Best to bring this conversation back to the appropriate place.

Agreed, just to say that I am not using emotional thinking, I’m thinking logically and with over 30 years of industry experience for my personal analysis.
However, your thought on replacing Jazz with the 220s, look to the south, why are they paying so much more to keep the small jets going? Why pay that if they don’t serve a purpose? Why not just let them die on their own, the part you haven’t or aren’t considering is AC is in a predicament, they can’t pay us 20-30% more while they are trying to keep you from attaining those same gains.
With the plans Porter has for its growth and new terminal, I sincerely doubt it’s for sale and if it were, it won’t be cheap.
But, I’ll continue this in the Jazz thread

[rudder]

I agree with most of what you say fairly often, I just think this time you might be wrong. The poison pill is exactly why AC could be considering this route, it will divide the groups who will now be looking to protect their members best interest.
As for the 500, I agree, most of them are/were not considering AC because they would have lost too much in any flow/pml scenario. A merger would not be that, it would have to consider all that, we would not be “new hires” and all that goes with that.
I ask you this, with presumably 5 years to go for your retirement and a merger announcement, would you go to Porter or stick it out and see what happens.
How many of the current Jazz pilot roster would leave if they were looking at a seniority number, whatever that looks like or roll the dice with Porter and join AC down the road as a new hire.
I believe at this point the only real option AC has if they want Jazz(aircraft) to remain as a going concern is to buy it and merge it into the operations, the other extremely unlikely option is a wage increase enough to keep pilots on property operating 76/78 seat aircraft. Which scenario is cheaper for AC, that will answer the question of what direction they might be heading.

Cdnaviator, with all due respect I think you’re giving Jazz and the Jazz pilot group way more credit than they have.

I get it, you want a merger with AC to happen real bad, it would be the best case scenario for and everyone still at Jazz. I agree with you and (as an ex Jazz guy) I certainly hope it happens.

Unfortunately, Jazz doesn’t have as much pull as they used to in their relationship with AC and AC is slowly putting distance between them and Jazz. Flow has stalled, negotiations with pay have stalled, reduced flying across the country, LOA’s being offered to FA’s… the list goes on.

I hate to say it, but take the emotion out of the equation and look at the situation through AC’s eyes. It’s doesn’t look good for Jazz.

I could see AC buying Porter long before they even consider buying Jazz. Porter is a direct threat to AC at the moment and AC is actively putting the 220, Max and Rouge on a lot of Jazz routes and bringing that flying in-house.

AC is treating Jazz as a necessary evil, they’re actively cutting them out as quickly as they can.

As I said, I certainly hope I’m wrong and Jazz comes out of this significantly better for it. Unfortunately the reality of the situation is much different when you take the emotion out of it and look at it from a business perspective. AC doesn’t give a sh!t about causing confusion in the pilot ranks, pitting the unions against each other or any other scenario that would disrupt the “pilot group”. All AC cares about is money and the share holders… that’s what drives their decision making.

For anyone considering joining Jazz I hope it is only because you’ve exhausted all other options. Jazz is quickly becoming a dead-end career opportunity and it’ll cause more harm than good.

IMO

Also, this is a Porter thread. Best to bring this conversation back to the appropriate place.

Agreed, just to say that I am not using emotional thinking, I’m thinking logically and with over 30 years of industry experience for my personal analysis.
However, your thought on replacing Jazz with the 220s, look to the south, why are they paying so much more to keep the small jets going? Why pay that if they don’t serve a purpose? Why not just let them die on their own, the part you haven’t or aren’t considering is AC is in a predicament, they can’t pay us 20-30% more while they are trying to keep you from attaining those same gains.
With the plans Porter has for its growth and new terminal, I sincerely doubt it’s for sale and if it were, it won’t be cheap.
But, I’ll continue this in the Jazz thread

What is happening down south is a ‘bridge’. It is a reversal of the divestiture of flying from mainline to regional.

Ultimately, mainline will repatriate what ever flying it thinks that it can do. Gauge will increase. Frequency will decrease. Same block hours will move more pax, or less block hours required to move current pax levels.

AC will never have a problem finding pilots. Neither will any US legacy carrier, so long as they are the highest paid. The same cannot be said for the regionals.

[Inverted2]

Well if they offer YOS and a signing bonus for the E2 it might push me over the edge and leave Jizz.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Well if they offer YOS and a signing bonus for the E2 it might push me over the edge and leave Jizz.

Not gonna happen. At least for a long time.

However, I’m already making more than double what I used to make on the E1. But signing bonuses and YOS for the jet is not in the cards are the moment. If you can get in DEC, I’d say jump in sooner than later. But I understand everything is a risk.

[Inverted2]

I’m on the old (good) pension so it’s really tough for me to give that up so I’m sticking it out for now but it is very tempting.

[CaptDukeNukem]

I’m on the old (good) pension so it’s really tough for me to give that up so I’m sticking it out for now but it is very tempting.

Yea no doubt. All these things need to factor into a pilot’s decision to jump ship.