Negotiations

[mmm...bacon]

If AC’s strategy is to have the feds preempt a strike before it even starts like 2012, then it is flawed. That is very clearly unconstitutional. Any intervention would happen after the strike was in progress which is a little muddier. For this to be their strategy likely means enduring a strike for a few weeks. Then trying to ram a mediators report down our throat like the port of Vancouver. That playbook leaves a lot of uncertainty on future bookings for an extended time.

IMHO, unlikely that the Government will intervene in a strike for quite some period of time. They didn’t move on the longshoremen for ?3 or so?weeks, and then only to threaten; I’d argue that heavy freight movement is more valuable to the economy than a passenger airline..

[CaptDukeNukem]

If AC’s strategy is to have the feds preempt a strike before it even starts like 2012, then it is flawed. That is very clearly unconstitutional. Any intervention would happen after the strike was in progress which is a little muddier. For this to be their strategy likely means enduring a strike for a few weeks. Then trying to ram a mediators report down our throat like the port of Vancouver. That playbook leaves a lot of uncertainty on future bookings for an extended time.

IMHO, unlikely that the Government will intervene in a strike for quite some period of time. They didn’t move on the longshoremen for ?3 or so?weeks, and then only to threaten; I’d argue that heavy freight movement is more valuable to the economy than a passenger airline..

I personally disagree.. Tons of business gets done with in person face to face meetings, people gotta fly to get this done efficiently. Especially with AC who deals with the premium business travelers more so than other airlines. Not being able to travel quickly from location to location has the ability to harm the economy quite badly.

While freight is a big part of aviation, much much more gets moved by rail and sea than by air.

[throwawaycorporate]

I personally disagree.. Tons of business gets done with in person face to face meetings, people gotta fly to get this done efficiently. Especially with AC who deals with the premium business travelers more so than other airlines. Not being able to travel quickly from location to location has the ability to harm the economy quite badly.

While freight is a big part of aviation, much much more gets moved by rail and sea than by air.

"Sorry guys, flight's cancelled. Let's do this meeting over zoom"

[QKZXKV]

If AC’s strategy is to have the feds preempt a strike before it even starts like 2012, then it is flawed. That is very clearly unconstitutional. Any intervention would happen after the strike was in progress which is a little muddier. For this to be their strategy likely means enduring a strike for a few weeks. Then trying to ram a mediators report down our throat like the port of Vancouver. That playbook leaves a lot of uncertainty on future bookings for an extended time.

IMHO, unlikely that the Government will intervene in a strike for quite some period of time. They didn’t move on the longshoremen for ?3 or so?weeks, and then only to threaten; I’d argue that heavy freight movement is more valuable to the economy than a passenger airline..

They will if it causes public outrage. Our current govt is on life support in the polls and everything they do is to help with their leader's goal for winning a popularity contest. If they think it'll help in the polls, they'll legislate.

[CaptDukeNukem]

I personally disagree.. Tons of business gets done with in person face to face meetings, people gotta fly to get this done efficiently. Especially with AC who deals with the premium business travelers more so than other airlines. Not being able to travel quickly from location to location has the ability to harm the economy quite badly.

While freight is a big part of aviation, much much more gets moved by rail and sea than by air.

"Sorry guys, flight's cancelled. Let's do this meeting over zoom"

Yes that is an alternative. But a lot of business gets done in person. The big wigs love to write off a round of golf at fancy courses.

[Transition9er2]

I personally disagree.. Tons of business gets done with in person face to face meetings, people gotta fly to get this done efficiently. Especially with AC who deals with the premium business travelers more so than other airlines. Not being able to travel quickly from location to location has the ability to harm the economy quite badly.

While freight is a big part of aviation, much much more gets moved by rail and sea than by air.

"Sorry guys, flight's cancelled. Let's do this meeting over zoom"

“Sorry guys, AC pilots are striking. I guess we have to fly on WestJet, Flair, Lynx, Porter, Encore or Jazz to get to our meeting”.

If AC was the only airline in the country, I would agree with you. The simple fact that every customer has multiple options to get to their destination completely removes the “essential service” argument.

Take a look around every apron in Canada, there’s multiple airlines hanging around.

[Fanblade]

If AC’s strategy is to have the feds preempt a strike before it even starts like 2012, then it is flawed. That is very clearly unconstitutional. Any intervention would happen after the strike was in progress which is a little muddier. For this to be their strategy likely means enduring a strike for a few weeks. Then trying to ram a mediators report down our throat like the port of Vancouver. That playbook leaves a lot of uncertainty on future bookings for an extended time.

IMHO, unlikely that the Government will intervene in a strike for quite some period of time. They didn’t move on the longshoremen for ?3 or so?weeks, and then only to threaten; I’d argue that heavy freight movement is more valuable to the economy than a passenger airline..

I personally disagree.. Tons of business gets done with in person face to face meetings, people gotta fly to get this done efficiently. Especially with AC who deals with the premium business travelers more so than other airlines. Not being able to travel quickly from location to location has the ability to harm the economy quite badly.

While freight is a big part of aviation, much much more gets moved by rail and sea than by air.

The Harper days of labour intervention based on economics was deemed unconstitutional.

The CIRB has been very clear. They will not interfere based on economics. There is no such labor legislation that makes something essential to the economy. The only thing is essential service, and on that front they have been very clear. Life and limb need to be in jeopardy.

You are suggesting that the government will act in an unconstitutional manner so that elite business passengers don’t have to endure regular cabin seating on other airlines? Or so they don’t have to go through Denver if that seat is so important to them?

Your economic angle is not only unconstitutional it is also not real. The options once you consider bouncing through the US back to a Canadian destination are plentiful. If they want a face to face they can do it. It’s a complete non issue.

With that said aviation is different than a port or rail strike in that it impacts voters immediately. The other two take a little time to start impacting the supply chain enough to impact voters.

We will have the right to strike. But there likely will be more upfront pressure on the government from voters. The question of how long before interference is a question mark. But probably at least a few weeks

[Morg]

Just looking at AC Timetable that goes through sked change to November 12 at the end of October AC will do all SAN,SFO and DEN our of YVR so the only flying I can see for YVR is XE,QR,ZF looks like 319 doing some XY we will do one XY a day and one WG a day turn not sure which base will do EG- SFO but it's going to get grim looking at YC I can't figure out if they have any local flying at all this is why AC doesn't want to pay to keep pilots they just want to shrink Jazz but we'll see its only on paper for now.

[Morg]

No problem hiring pilots

https://ca-finance-yahoo-com.cdn.amppro ... 00401.html

[Fanblade]

No problem hiring pilots

https://ca-finance-yahoo-com.cdn.amppro ... 00401.html

It’s spin. The shortage is Captains or quickly upgradable. Yes Jazz can attract people just out of college. As soon as they have enough hours they too will move on.

[Morg]

Exactly ! stock getting hammered today down to 2.80 the market is not happy with Jazz. The share price won't go up till dividend reintroduced which won't happen they need that money to pay for the leasing company they bought.

[rudder]

There is another shoe that will drop. Not sure when. Not sure what.

And yet another member survey. Does not exactly inspire confidence in leadership decision making.

[kiaszceski]

No problem hiring pilots

https://ca-finance-yahoo-com.cdn.amppro ... 00401.html

Everything is going as planned

[QKZXKV]

IMHO, unlikely that the Government will intervene in a strike for quite some period of time. They didn’t move on the longshoremen for ?3 or so?weeks, and then only to threaten; I’d argue that heavy freight movement is more valuable to the economy than a passenger airline..

I personally disagree.. Tons of business gets done with in person face to face meetings, people gotta fly to get this done efficiently. Especially with AC who deals with the premium business travelers more so than other airlines. Not being able to travel quickly from location to location has the ability to harm the economy quite badly.

While freight is a big part of aviation, much much more gets moved by rail and sea than by air.

The Harper days of labour intervention based on economics was deemed unconstitutional.

The CIRB has been very clear. They will not interfere based on economics. There is no such labor legislation that makes something essential to the economy. The only thing is essential service, and on that front they have been very clear. Life and limb need to be in jeopardy.

"You are suggesting that the government will act in an unconstitutional manner"

Fanblade where ya been in the last 3 yrs with this govt? The vaccine mandates are all you need for an example of that!

The way the Canadian political system works, the government can and will do anything it wants to win a popularity contest!

[QKZXKV]

Just looking at AC Timetable that goes through sked change to November 12 at the end of October AC will do all SAN,SFO and DEN our of YVR so the only flying I can see for YVR is XE,QR,ZF looks like 319 doing some XY we will do one XY a day and one WG a day turn not sure which base will do EG- SFO but it's going to get grim looking at YC I can't figure out if they have any local flying at all this is why AC doesn't want to pay to keep pilots they just want to shrink Jazz but we'll see its only on paper for now.

You can expect a YYC reduction/closure in 2 weeks without any doubt!

[Inverted2]

Or they’ll just keep deadheading YYC crews out east. I don’t know if they could afford to lose that many more pilots. YYZ is already short with YYC coming here to fly.

[QKZXKV]

Or they’ll just keep deadheading YYC crews out east. I don’t know if they could afford to lose that many more pilots. YYZ is already short with YYC coming here to fly.

Well I've been told by temp based pilots that they haven't posted any for Sept like they were supposed to. No idea if this is accurate.

[truedude]

Or they’ll just keep deadheading YYC crews out east. I don’t know if they could afford to lose that many more pilots. YYZ is already short with YYC coming here to fly.

Well I've been told by temp based pilots that they haven't posted any for Sept like they were supposed to. No idea if this is accurate.

The August Bid results wouldn't be known until Sept 1st. And even if they shut down a base or something drastic, which they won't, it wouldn't mean YYZ suddenly has more pilots.

[Inverted2]

If they have a bid at all…. I don’t think they’ve got training and staffing completed from the last bid. Plus with all the resignations there wouldn’t be much in the way of reductions for anyone.

[QKZXKV]

The lack of departures out of YYC this fall hardly justify a base. As it is, the mainline FAs are worried about a YYC reduction.

[truedude]

The lack of departures out of YYC this fall hardly justify a base. As it is, the mainline FAs are worried about a YYC reduction.

Justified or not, there are pilots there. The vast majority of which won't move or commute.

[QKZXKV]

The lack of departures out of YYC this fall hardly justify a base. As it is, the mainline FAs are worried about a YYC reduction.

Justified or not, there are pilots there. The vast majority of which won't move or commute.

We've continually talked about how management isn't aware or doesn't seem to care about those realities... Honest question, do you think they will take that into consideration? because I sure don't!

[truedude]

The lack of departures out of YYC this fall hardly justify a base. As it is, the mainline FAs are worried about a YYC reduction.

Justified or not, there are pilots there. The vast majority of which won't move or commute.

We've continually talked about how management isn't aware or doesn't seem to care about those realities... Honest question, do you think they will take that into consideration? because I sure don't!

Yes, I do. Maybe not before. But they don't have pilots to lose, and they know this. Those temp bases have also chased people away, so it might be worthwhile to stop that too.

[CaptDukeNukem]

The lack of departures out of YYC this fall hardly justify a base. As it is, the mainline FAs are worried about a YYC reduction.

Justified or not, there are pilots there. The vast majority of which won't move or commute.

I’m curious if there was a base closure or reduction if porter would fire up a western base sooner than later.

[truedude]

Or they’ll just keep deadheading YYC crews out east. I don’t know if they could afford to lose that many more pilots. YYZ is already short with YYC coming here to fly.

Well I've been told by temp based pilots that they haven't posted any for Sept like they were supposed to. No idea if this is accurate.

Well now know why there are no September temp bases. The company received a massive penalty for using them improperly.