704 PIC

[Me262]

Is it possible to get PIC with only a CPL? Or is a 704 operation (eg. Beech 1900) requires ATPL to be PIC?

[digits_]

I think Perimeter operates certain Metros 704 with captains that don't hold an ATPL. It's quite rare though.

[North Shore]

Take a seminar/course, Study, write one; study, write the second. We’ve all done it..

[digits_]

Take a seminar/course, Study, write one; study, write the second. We’ve all done it..

That won't help you if you don't have the required hours though

[BeaverDreamer]

Lots of DHC6 under 704 being flown by CPLs. I was a 704 Captain on a 1900 before I had my ATPL.

[Me262]

Take a seminar/course, Study, write one; study, write the second. We’ve all done it..

That won't help you if you don't have the required hours though

Exactly

Lots of DHC6 under 704 being flown by CPLs. I was a 704 Captain on a 1900 before I had my ATPL.

So an ATPL is only required for 705 operations unless a company decides in their COM to require an ATPL for 704 aircrafts? (<19k lbs; <20pax)

If so, wouldn't these be operated under single pilot (DHC6, 1900), therefore the co-pilot shouldn't be able to log time?

[digits_]

Take a seminar/course, Study, write one; study, write the second. We’ve all done it..

That won't help you if you don't have the required hours though

Exactly

Lots of DHC6 under 704 being flown by CPLs. I was a 704 Captain on a 1900 before I had my ATPL.

So an ATPL is only required for 705 operations unless a company decides in their COM to require an ATPL for 704 aircrafts? (<19k lbs; <20pax)

If so, wouldn't these be operated under single pilot (DHC6, 1900), therefore the co-pilot shouldn't be able to log time?

No, there's more to it. For the metro example, some metro types are only certified for 2 crew. For those 704 planes you would need an ATPL.
If there are 704 planes that are single crew certified (such as some 1900 and some king airs), you could possibly fly them without an ATPL. But companies might have different requirements, depending on certain deals (opspecs) they make with TC.

[Heavy Rayn]

My general understanding is if the aircraft requires two crew the PIC must hold an ATPL. If it’s operated under 704 and does not require two crew the PIC must have 1200 hours. If the aircraft is single pilot certified the co pilot may still log the time of the AOC states the aircraft is operated in a two crew operation.

Get a letter from your CP when you go to sign off your A’s just to ensure there are no hiccups validating your right seat time in a single pilot aircraft. Also the ATPL exams aren’t difficult, take an aerocourse and have them done in two weeks.

[Me262]

My general understanding is if the aircraft requires two crew the PIC must hold an ATPL. If it’s operated under 704 and does not require two crew the PIC must have 1200 hours. If the aircraft is single pilot certified the co pilot may still log the time of the AOC states the aircraft is operated in a two crew operation.

Get a letter from your CP when you go to sign off your A’s just to ensure there are no hiccups validating your right seat time in a single pilot aircraft. Also the ATPL exams aren’t difficult, take an aerocourse and have them done in two weeks.

But if the AOC states that the aircraft is operated in a two crew operation, wouldn't that result in the PIC needing to hold an ATPL? If it's operated under 704 and does not require two crew, why would a 2nd crew (co-pilot) be allowed to log any co-pilot time in the logbook?

Or is the ATPL only for 705 operation "airline", hence "Airplane Transport Pilot licence", thus any 704 operations can have a CPL holder as PIC? And if the AOC states a 1900 is operated as two crew, both can be CPL holders?

And regarding "just get a ATPL", it's not the exams, but the hour requirements that is the limit.

[BTD]

The type certificate for the aircraft is what determines if you need an ATPL.

The operating certificate for airline is what determines whether the co-pilot can credit time towards the ATPLs.

Example - King air 100 certified single pilot , but company ops requires 2 pilots. No atpl needed and the copilot can log time.

Metro 3/23 - In Canada certified 2 pilot. PIC needs an ATPL, and ops certificate will require 2 pilots therefore copilot logs time.

Caravan - certified single pilot, and ops certificate says single pilot, but company allows a cpl who works the ramp to sit right seat to get experience. No ATPL for pic required and copilot cannot log time.

Weather it’s 705 or 704 is mostly irrelevant.

[Heavy Rayn]

BTD is spot on. Whether an ATPL is required is based off the airplane certification. Keep in mind private jets operated under 604 often require two crew based off the aircraft certification and thus the PIC of a 604 operation will need an ATPL, meaning ATPL is not just for 705 ops.

The AOC stating the company operates the aircraft in a two crew or single pilot environment determines whether the co pilot may log time. It does not matter if the aircraft is single pilot certified if the AOC states it is operated two crew.

I understand you don’t have the hours for an ATPL yet, I was just saying when you do, if you have not written the exams that I recommend aerocourse.