Negotiations

[Inverted2]

Also don’t forget this is the same MEC sold us on the 17 year crap contract like it was the best thing since sliced bread.

60% flow through, sole CPA provider, fleet guarantees that likely won’t be kept.

[Rowdy]

Its pretty simple.

We won't vote for anything that gives up a milimeter. We won't vote yes for anything LESS than 35% AND a pile of improvements to working conditions.

Even then, it will only stop the bleeding out. It'll need to be north of 60% to attract anyone qualified to be a captain.

You want some 'lets'.. Better turn the pay up to 70% and improve the working conditions.

Also.. Could care less about flow. Clearly AC doesn't

[canadian_aviator_4]

Prepare to be disappointed.

[RoAF-Mig21]

...Now they’re seeing their quality of life deteriorate with 7-8 year captains not holding a block anymore...

A good number of F/Os will not upgrade becasue it makes no financial sense to do so.

Many are commuters and the only way they can make it work is to have a schedule that minimizes their commute from home to their respective base. Any upgrade that puts them at the bottom of the captain seniority list, means their schedule will be severly impacted. If you're flying from Halifax to YYZ, or have to drive more than 2 hrs to work, it's just not practical. One or two day pairings are a nightmare for commuters, as are early starts and late finishes. Most preffer 4 day pairings, which requires them to do their travel to 4 times a month (on average).

If you end up on reserve, it's impossible to make it work without a crashpad or having some sort of arrangement to live near your base. By the time you factor that cost in, plus the hectic schedule, less per-diems, the higher tax bracket, etc. one would ask 'Why would I upgrade at this point?"

The housing crisis affects everyone in this country, not just those that work in aviation. For some (dual citizens), the only option is to leave Canada.

[flyinhigh]

Prepare to be disappointed.

Yup, I know I was with our huge announcement of work rule changes at PD. Pay is nice but they severely missed the mark on work rules.

[QKZXKV]

...Now they’re seeing their quality of life deteriorate with 7-8 year captains not holding a block anymore...

A good number of F/Os will not upgrade becasue it makes no financial sense to do so.

Many are commuters and the only way they can make it work is to have a schedule that minimizes their commute from home to their respective base. Any upgrade that puts them at the bottom of the captain seniority list, means their schedule will be severly impacted. If you're flying from Halifax to YYZ, or have to drive more than 2 hrs to work, it's just not practical. One or two day pairings are a nightmare for commuters, as are early starts and late finishes. Most preffer 4 day pairings, which requires them to do their travel to 4 times a month (on average).

If you end up on reserve, it's impossible to make it work without a crashpad or having some sort of arrangement to live near your base. By the time you factor that cost in, plus the hectic schedule, less per-diems, the higher tax bracket, etc. one would ask 'Why would I upgrade at this point?"

The housing crisis affects everyone in this country, not just those that work in aviation. For some (dual citizens), the only option is to leave Canada.

Loads on flights are horrendous now too. Not as much frequency and too many misconnecting paid passengers messing up loads.

[Curiousflyer]

The two biggest factors of the 17 year deal were flow and sole CPA. Those are both gone now. Unless Jazz gets both of those back, WITH punitive language for not maintaining flow and sole CPA, then what is the point of even considering a new deal?

They didn’t hold up their end of the bargain on the last deal, how anyone in their right mind can go make a new deal without first rectifying the first is insanity.

Best of luck, but there’s no way this deal that might come is anywhere close to good enough for Jazz pilots.

[QKZXKV]

Genuine curiosity... does the JAZ MEC say "no" and let AC negotiate first? My gut says they will/should because it might be more of a benefit than to flinch first.

[RoAF-Mig21]

Loads on flights are horrendous now too. Not as much frequency and too many misconnecting paid passengers messing up loads.

You mean it's hard to get a seat on a plane, right? I agree. It makes it very stressful for a pilot to find his or her way to/from work.

[truedude]

Genuine curiosity... does the JAZ MEC say "no" and let AC negotiate first? My gut says they will/should because it might be more of a benefit than to flinch first.

They won't, and they shouldn't.

[QKZXKV]

Loads on flights are horrendous now too. Not as much frequency and too many misconnecting paid passengers messing up loads.

You mean it's hard to get a seat on a plane, right? I agree. It makes it very stressful for a pilot to find his or her way to/from work.

Yeah I've looked at ETS a bunch this summer with "what ifs" got stressed just thinking about commuting.

[Morg]

Wow this sounds familiar no contract no pilots!

Release #: ATI 23.09
August 16, 2023

ATI Fails Yet Again to Fill Vacancies for Captain Upgrades

WASHINGTON—For the second consecutive month, Air Transport International (ATI) has been unable to fill the captain vacancies left by staggering pilot resignations. Year to date, ATI has accepted 155 resignations, representing 29 percent of the pilot group.

Even after awarding captain upgrades to new hires with little or no Boeing 767 flight experience, ATI still missed the mark by more than 33 percent filling only 67 percent of available captain vacancies (this number does not include pilots who have already elected to withdraw from the vacancy award). The ATI pilot union warns that this inability to upgrade first officers while experienced captains leave the company in droves, if unaddressed, will likely lead to a staffing crisis.

“Management’s failure to deliver a contract on par with the industry standard has driven many of our highly experienced and hardworking pilots out the door,” said Capt. Mike Sterling, chair of the ATI Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA) Master Executive Council. “Add in that our pilots are being squeezed harder and harder each month with more day/night transitions, higher block times, shorter layovers, and an overall fatiguing environment that has so far been ignored by upper management and you have a recipe for even more attrition and no appetite for pilots to begin a career at ATI.”

ATI and ALPA have been in contract negotiations for more than three years and entered into mediation earlier this year. ATI and parent company Air Transport Services Group (ATSG) have not made any meaningful progress on big ticket issues including compensation and retirement. When asked about ATI pilot negotiations during ATSG’s second quarter earnings call, CEO Rich Corrado stated that he “doesn’t expect the CBA to be settled prior to 2024.”

“After negotiating for more than three years, it’s disheartening to hear that ATSG is not serious about reaching an agreement. The sluggish mentality of ATSG leadership is driving pilots away from what was once a destination airline. ATI has already seen its pipeline of U.S. military pilots disintegrate as they discover that ATI is not well-suited to professional progression and the other traditional pilot pipeline—regional jet airlines—is drying up as those candidates seek carriers with stronger pay/retirement packages and less fatiguing work rules. Delivering a contract with much-needed improvements in pay, retirement, and work rules will allow ATI to attract and retain experienced pilots and may polish ATI’s currently tarnished reputation within the industry,” concluded Sterling.

-###-

CONTACT: ALPA Media, 703-481-4440 or Media@alpa.org

[canadian_aviator_4]

What is ATI pay at for captains?

[KenoraPilot]

Genuine curiosity... does the JAZ MEC say "no" and let AC negotiate first? My gut says they will/should because it might be more of a benefit than to flinch first.

Doing so puts ALL your trust in ACA and praying they don’t screw Jazz pilots in the process of their own negotiations. I wouldn’t blame them if they did….they have to look out for themselves first. The failed TA about a year back was just that, an attempt to circumnavigate Jazz issues with a cheap Air Canada pilot solution. Thankfully it was so “devoid” of $$$ that the AC pilots turned it down.

[Fanblade]

https://www.archyde.com/air-canada-canc ... of-pilots/

Nearly a month before the arrival of fall, Air Canada is canceling all of its direct flights to the South departing from the Quebec City airport, for “operational” reasons.

Shortage of pilots

These cancellations are caused in particular by a “shortage of pilots on the regional markets”, as well as by “the persistent problems of the supply chain”, explains the spokesperson for Air Canada, Christophe Hennebelle, by email.

[truedude]

https://www.archyde.com/air-canada-canc ... of-pilots/

Nearly a month before the arrival of fall, Air Canada is canceling all of its direct flights to the South departing from the Quebec City airport, for “operational” reasons.

Shortage of pilots

These cancellations are caused in particular by a “shortage of pilots on the regional markets”, as well as by “the persistent problems of the supply chain”, explains the spokesperson for Air Canada, Christophe Hennebelle, by email.

What it should really say is "these flights are being canceled because we had our heads up our collective asses, and our arrogance, combined with our stubbornness and gross incompetence, created a situation in which all of our regional pilots quit on mass."

[CaptDukeNukem]

https://www.archyde.com/air-canada-canc ... of-pilots/

Nearly a month before the arrival of fall, Air Canada is canceling all of its direct flights to the South departing from the Quebec City airport, for “operational” reasons.

Shortage of pilots

These cancellations are caused in particular by a “shortage of pilots on the regional markets”, as well as by “the persistent problems of the supply chain”, explains the spokesperson for Air Canada, Christophe Hennebelle, by email.

What it should really say is "these flights are being canceled because we had our heads up our collective asses, and our arrogance, combined with our stubbornness and gross incompetence, created a situation in which all of our regional pilots quit on mass."

+1

[rudder]

https://www.archyde.com/air-canada-canc ... of-pilots/

Nearly a month before the arrival of fall, Air Canada is canceling all of its direct flights to the South departing from the Quebec City airport, for “operational” reasons.

Shortage of pilots

These cancellations are caused in particular by a “shortage of pilots on the regional markets”, as well as by “the persistent problems of the supply chain”, explains the spokesperson for Air Canada, Christophe Hennebelle, by email.

Last time I checked, ‘pilots on the regional markets’ (Express) don’t fly to Cancun or the DR.

This is all smoke and mirrors.

[Mrs. Andry]

https://www.archyde.com/air-canada-canc ... of-pilots/

Nearly a month before the arrival of fall, Air Canada is canceling all of its direct flights to the South departing from the Quebec City airport, for “operational” reasons.

Shortage of pilots

These cancellations are caused in particular by a “shortage of pilots on the regional markets”, as well as by “the persistent problems of the supply chain”, explains the spokesperson for Air Canada, Christophe Hennebelle, by email.

Last time I checked, ‘pilots on the regional markets’ (Express) don’t fly to Cancun or the DR.

This is all smoke and mirrors.

When the planes that are supposed to fly to Cancun or the DR are redeployed to YQT/YQM/YFC/YSJ/YQY, it's not a stretch to say that it's a result of the situation at the Express carrier(s).

[bob99]

https://www.archyde.com/air-canada-canc ... of-pilots/

Nearly a month before the arrival of fall, Air Canada is canceling all of its direct flights to the South departing from the Quebec City airport, for “operational” reasons.

Shortage of pilots

These cancellations are caused in particular by a “shortage of pilots on the regional markets”, as well as by “the persistent problems of the supply chain”, explains the spokesperson for Air Canada, Christophe Hennebelle, by email.

Last time I checked, ‘pilots on the regional markets’ (Express) don’t fly to Cancun or the DR.

This is all smoke and mirrors.

Have you not seen how much Jazz flying has gone to Rouge and the 220?

[swervin]

Have you not seen how much Jazz flying has gone to Rouge and the 220?
[/quote]

We used to run 850 flights a day. Now it’s less than 400..

[Fanblade]

https://www.archyde.com/air-canada-canc ... of-pilots/

Nearly a month before the arrival of fall, Air Canada is canceling all of its direct flights to the South departing from the Quebec City airport, for “operational” reasons.

Shortage of pilots

These cancellations are caused in particular by a “shortage of pilots on the regional markets”, as well as by “the persistent problems of the supply chain”, explains the spokesperson for Air Canada, Christophe Hennebelle, by email.

Last time I checked, ‘pilots on the regional markets’ (Express) don’t fly to Cancun or the DR.

This is all smoke and mirrors.

No it's not smoke and mirrors.

They are moving mainline metal to cover regional flying.

As they move mainline metal, mainline routes get abandoned. Same thing has been happening in YYC.

AC has been abandoning mainline routes for a while now to shore up regional routes in YVR YYZ and YUL

It is why I have been adamant that this can not last for very long. That there is a line in the sand where AC will decide enough is enough and cut a deal. You won't know where the line is until you trip over it.

[hsilgnepilot]

https://www.archyde.com/air-canada-canc ... of-pilots/

Nearly a month before the arrival of fall, Air Canada is canceling all of its direct flights to the South departing from the Quebec City airport, for “operational” reasons.

Shortage of pilots

These cancellations are caused in particular by a “shortage of pilots on the regional markets”, as well as by “the persistent problems of the supply chain”, explains the spokesperson for Air Canada, Christophe Hennebelle, by email.

Last time I checked, ‘pilots on the regional markets’ (Express) don’t fly to Cancun or the DR.

This is all smoke and mirrors.

I agree with you on 99.99% of the stuff you say on here and consider you to have a very good reputation, but this is absolutely a direct result of the lack of pilots at Jazz. Ceding a huge south market like YQB is wild, Transat and Sunwing are licking their lips.

[tango308]

Have you not seen how much Jazz flying has gone to Rouge and the 220?

We used to run 850 flights a day. Now it’s less than 400..
[/quote]

I know Jazz is just a shadow of what it used to be but the exact number flights daily is in the high 400s. 483 today, 478 tomorrow.

[Fanblade]

https://www.archyde.com/air-canada-canc ... of-pilots/

Nearly a month before the arrival of fall, Air Canada is canceling all of its direct flights to the South departing from the Quebec City airport, for “operational” reasons.

Shortage of pilots

These cancellations are caused in particular by a “shortage of pilots on the regional markets”, as well as by “the persistent problems of the supply chain”, explains the spokesperson for Air Canada, Christophe Hennebelle, by email.

Last time I checked, ‘pilots on the regional markets’ (Express) don’t fly to Cancun or the DR.

This is all smoke and mirrors.

I agree with you on 99.99% of the stuff you say on here and consider you to have a very good reputation, but this is absolutely a direct result of the lack of pilots at Jazz. Ceding a huge south market like YQB is wild, Transat and Sunwing are licking their lips.

Over the last 18 months AC has pulled out of most of the YYC trans border/ Sun market as they moved mainline metal to shore up Jazz routes out of YVR.

Like the Jazz base in YYC, the mainline flight attendant base is concerned it could close. So far AC management has been passing on the same message to the YYC flight attendants that was quoted in the article above. The route cancellation is due to a regional pilot shortage and is temporary.

They are ceding market because they don’t want to pay market rates to regional pilots. They believe the situation is temporary because they have a bunch of A220’s on order and AC doesn’t have a hiring or retention issue. They believe they can wait out the A220 arrivals by ceding market. They believe this will be cheaper in the end.

This is why they believe the shortage ( or spin the message) that the shortage is temporary.

Their thinking is flawed. They will cede market share and still have to pay market rates in the end. The sooner they accept reality the sooner they can get back to fighting the competition rather than its pilots.

However in the mean time, while AC stays focused on not paying pilots, it can’t be predicted how much pain AC management is willing to endure. There is a line somewhere. It’s too late for winter 2023/2024. They are currently closing in on a line in the sand for summer 2024.

This is just my opinion. I don’t think they will let this spread into summer 2024. But I’m guessing.