Negotiations

[cdnavater]

Last time I checked, ‘pilots on the regional markets’ (Express) don’t fly to Cancun or the DR.

This is all smoke and mirrors.

I agree with you on 99.99% of the stuff you say on here and consider you to have a very good reputation, but this is absolutely a direct result of the lack of pilots at Jazz. Ceding a huge south market like YQB is wild, Transat and Sunwing are licking their lips.

Over the last 18 months AC has pulled out of most of the YYC trans border/ Sun market as they moved mainline metal to shore up Jazz routes out of YVR.

Like the Jazz base in YYC, the mainline flight attendant base is concerned it could close. So far AC management has been passing on the same message to the YYC flight attendants that was quoted in the article above. The route cancellation is due to a regional pilot shortage and is temporary.

They are ceding market because they don’t want to pay market rates to regional pilots. They believe the situation is temporary because they have a bunch of A220’s on order and AC doesn’t have a hiring or retention issue. They believe they can wait out the A220 arrivals by ceding market. They believe this will be cheaper in the end.

This is why they believe the shortage ( or spin the message) that the shortage is temporary.

Their thinking is flawed. They will cede market share and still have to pay market rates in the end. The sooner they accept reality the sooner they can get back to fighting the competition rather than its pilots.

However in the mean time, while AC stays focused on not paying pilots, it can’t be predicted how much pain AC management is willing to endure. There is a line somewhere. It’s too late for winter 2023/2024. They are currently closing in on a line in the sand for summer 2024.

This is just my opinion. I don’t think they will let this spread into summer 2024. But I’m guessing.

I’m hearing the line has been found, both groups are in final stages of a deal, we might hear something this coming week.
Of course it’s a rumour and my source has a source so we are talking third hand information, supposedly a good source though, shall see.

[CaptDukeNukem]

I agree with you on 99.99% of the stuff you say on here and consider you to have a very good reputation, but this is absolutely a direct result of the lack of pilots at Jazz. Ceding a huge south market like YQB is wild, Transat and Sunwing are licking their lips.

Over the last 18 months AC has pulled out of most of the YYC trans border/ Sun market as they moved mainline metal to shore up Jazz routes out of YVR.

Like the Jazz base in YYC, the mainline flight attendant base is concerned it could close. So far AC management has been passing on the same message to the YYC flight attendants that was quoted in the article above. The route cancellation is due to a regional pilot shortage and is temporary.

They are ceding market because they don’t want to pay market rates to regional pilots. They believe the situation is temporary because they have a bunch of A220’s on order and AC doesn’t have a hiring or retention issue. They believe they can wait out the A220 arrivals by ceding market. They believe this will be cheaper in the end.

This is why they believe the shortage ( or spin the message) that the shortage is temporary.

Their thinking is flawed. They will cede market share and still have to pay market rates in the end. The sooner they accept reality the sooner they can get back to fighting the competition rather than its pilots.

However in the mean time, while AC stays focused on not paying pilots, it can’t be predicted how much pain AC management is willing to endure. There is a line somewhere. It’s too late for winter 2023/2024. They are currently closing in on a line in the sand for summer 2024.

This is just my opinion. I don’t think they will let this spread into summer 2024. But I’m guessing.

I’m hearing the line has been found, both groups are in final stages of a deal, we might hear something this coming week.
Of course it’s a rumour and my source has a source so we are talking third hand information, supposedly a good source though, shall see.

Hopefully something respectable. It’s been far too long of a wait

[cdnavater]

Yes, far too long, thanks!
The number being tossed around seems a little too good to be true so I’m tempering my optimism.

[rudder]

MEMORANDUM of SETTLEMENT NO.7 (MOS-7)

FOR MODIFICATIONS TO COLLECTIVE AGREEMENT No. 5 BETWEEN Jazz Aviation LP (the “Company”)

and the

Airline Pilots in the service of JAZZ AVIATION LP

as represented by the

AIR LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION, INTERNATIONAL (“ALPA”)

WHEREAS the parties wish to make certain changes to Collective Agreement No 5; and, WHEREAS the obligations specified in this MOS-7 shall be incorporated into the Collective Agreement at a future opportunity.

NOW THEREFORE the parties hereby agree:

The above recitals are true and form part of this agreement.

1) Pay Rates

a. Hourly Pay Rates for Small Body Aircraft contained in Section 10-9 (PAY RATES) shall be modified as per Appendix 1 of this agreement, and includes the addition of CA YOS 19 on July 1, 2028, and CA YOS 20 on July 1, 2029.

2) Loss of Licence Offset Premium (LOLOP)

a. The Company agrees to provide a Loss of License Offset Premium (LOLOP) payment to equate to the Company paying one hundred percent (100%) of benefit premiums, excluding an amount equal to Short-Term Disability (STD) premiums which shall continue to be paid one hundred percent (100%) by the Pilots.

b. The provision above shall supersede the language of MOS-2, point 11.

3) Training Pilot Compensation

a.Section 7-10.19 shall be amended as follows:

Training Pilots holding Check A authority shall be paid years of service at the Captain rate in accordance with Section 10 (PAY) plus a premium of ten percent (10%) fifteen percent (15%) top Captain rate.



b. Section 7-10.20 shall be amended as follows:
Training Pilots whose seniority would allow them to hold any Captains Position shall be paid years of service at the Captain rate in accordance with Section 10 (PAY) plus a premium of five percent (5%) ten percent (10%) top Captain rate.

c. Section 7-10.21 shall be amended as follows:

Training Pilots whose seniority would not allow them to hold a Captains Position on any type shall be paid F/O top of scale in accordance with Section 10 (PAY) plus a premium of five percent (5%) ten percent (10%) top Captain rate.

d. Section 7-10.23 shall be amended to reflect the following premiums for line pilots conducting training duties:

i) Thirty-one dollars and fourteen cents ($31.14) per Credit for the Duty Period in which a LC occurs.

ii) Twenty-eight dollars and forty-three cents ($28.43) per Credit for the Duty Period in which LI occurs.

4) Early Retirement Program

LOU No. 27 EARLY RETIREMENT PROGRAM Payment
Calculation shall be amended to specify that basic salary shall be calculated using eighty-five (85) credits as a standard month. The hourly rate shall be based on the pre-ratification pay scales, inclusive of the planned annual 2% increases and addition of the planned 18 YOS scale July 1, 2025.

5) Long Service Award

Upon successful ratification of this agreement, the Company shall pay a one-time long-service award to Pilots on the following YOS scales:

YOS Award
13 $ 2000
14 $ 2000
15 $ 2000
16 $ 4000
17 $ 6000

6) Pilot Movement to Air Canada


a. b.
All Pilots on the Pilot System Seniority List at the time of ratification of this agreement shall maintain all rights and privileges of Section 3-14 (Pilot Movement to Air Canada).
Notwithstanding Section 3-14 (Pilot Movement to Air Canada), all Pilots hired post- ratification of this agreement shall be offered no less than thirty percent (30%) of Air Canada’s new hire positions on an annual basis to Pilots on the Pilot System Seniority List who have applied.

c. The parties shall meet following ratification of this MOS-

7 agreement to establish protocols for coordination of simultaneous pre- and post-ratification Pilots moving to Air Canada. Any failure to agree on a protocol shall be advanced directly to Arbitration.

7) Freezes

A Pilot on the Air Canada hiring list who is within the projected flow rate for the following twelve (12) months may be restricted from training for a different Equipment assignment or upgrade for up to twelve (12) months from their awarded Effective date. Bypass pay provisions are applicable. A Pilot removing themselves from the Air Canada hiring list shall be trained respecting their original Effective date, or within thirty (30) days if that date is passed.

Increase in Maximum Scheduled Credits

a. The Company shall have an allotment of six (6) Credits per Position which may be used in the Bid Periods of October to December 2023 to increase Maximum Scheduled Credits above eighty-five (85). A maximum of two (2) Credits may be used in any given Position per Bid Period. These credits shall not be combined with the existing provisions of 8-30.07. Any use of these additional scheduled Credits shall generate a Time Bank deposit of two (2) Credits for all Pilots in the affected Position, to be deposited into the Pilots’ Time Bank once the monthly schedule is published.

b. The Company shall have an allotment of eight (8) Credits per Position which may be used in the Bid Periods of January to December 2024 to increase Maximum Scheduled Credits above eighty-five (85). A maximum of two (2) Credits may be used in any given Position per Bid Period. These credits shall not be combined with the existing provisions of 8-30.07. Any use of these additional scheduled Credits shall generate a Time Bank deposit of two (2) Credits for all Pilots in the affected Position, to be deposited into the Pilots’ Time Bank once the monthly schedule is published.

9) Letter of Understanding No. 58 – Contract Trainers

LOU 58 - CONTRACT TRAINERS shall take effect upon successful ratification of this MOS-7 agreement and run concurrently with the Collective Agreement.

10) Training Pilot Applicant Denials

Pilots on the Pilot System Seniority List who apply to be a Training Pilot but are denied a Training Pilot position shall be reviewed jointly by the Vice-President Flight Operations and the MEC Chair. Any unresolved dispute shall be referred directly to Arbitration.



11) Minimum Jazz Fleet – Air Canada CPA

ALPA acknowledges that the Company and Air Canada have positioned to advance the retirement of the CRJ-200 fleet type from 2025 to 2024. The Company and Air Canada commit that the CRJ-200 aircraft type will not be operated in Canada with an AC codeshare, under a Capacity Purchase Agreement, or any other means carrying Air Canada passengers.

This agreement is subject to ALPA’s ratification procedures. If successfully ratified this agreement shall become effective September 1, 2023.

All other provisions of the Jazz-ALPA Collective Agreement shall apply, except as expressly set out herein. This Memorandum of Settlement may only be modified with the written agreement of all parties.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, the parties hereto have signed this AGREEMENT on the 19th day of August 2023, in Toronto, Ontario. This Agreement may be signed in counterpart and electronically.

[hithere]

To be fair, you should also post the Chairman’s message that this MOS was attached to,rudder. It speaks volumes

[canadian_aviator_4]

What is the pay increase supposed to be at? Also, the decreasing flow to %30 is meaningless. They didn’t even reach that.

[truedude]

I'm voting for it. Feels a bit thin, but decent enough.

[rudder]

Chairman Message

Memorandum of Settlement No. 7

Fellow Pilots,

Further to last week’s communication, the MEC reconvened today to decide on the Company’s latest proposal. The MEC voted to submit the proposal for membership ratification.

The proposal, Memorandum of Settlement No. 7, is not a traditional “negotiated” agreement, largely because of the nature of the CPA business model. After over a year of negotiating, and countless instances of the MEC telling the Company “no” on your behalf, MOS-7 simply represents the maximum amount that the Company has told us Air Canada is willing to pay.

The proposal represents substantial monetary value in pay and benefits premiums. That value is tied to some items that the Company believes they require to recover the operation. The MOS does not meet the MEC’s expectations and the MEC is not convinced the MOS will meet the Company’s objectives either. However, at this juncture, the MEC has decided it would be irresponsible not to give you the opportunity to decide.

There are, of course, pros and cons to this proposal. Given the context of our Company, industry, and the wider economy, the future is difficult to predict. We do not know if this proposal represents one step in successive gains, or the total sum of what is possible. We do not know if rejecting the proposal leads to another opportunity to bargain, or forces Air Canada to enact further network contingencies. Everyone will need to decide for themselves based on the value of this proposal and their own personal situation, beliefs, risk tolerance, etc.

A webpage will be opened with documents, ratification resources, Q&A, etc. There will not be a roadshow or open house series. We plan to run a “Contact” later this week. For those unfamiliar with “The Contact” semi-live format, individuals from the Negotiating Committee, MEC Executive, ALPA staff, etc. gather in-person to answer questions submitted via the MEC website during the defined times. Answers are posted as they are written, and all questions are answered on the same day. Timings will be communicated later this week.

The MOS-7 document is attached to this email for your consideration. The ratification ballot will open early this week and close Monday, August 28. Instructions will be sent tomorrow once finalized.

In solidarity,

Claude

[Dronepiper]

Ok but what is the new payscale? Thats what really matters

[CaptDukeNukem]

Over the last 18 months AC has pulled out of most of the YYC trans border/ Sun market as they moved mainline metal to shore up Jazz routes out of YVR.

Like the Jazz base in YYC, the mainline flight attendant base is concerned it could close. So far AC management has been passing on the same message to the YYC flight attendants that was quoted in the article above. The route cancellation is due to a regional pilot shortage and is temporary.

They are ceding market because they don’t want to pay market rates to regional pilots. They believe the situation is temporary because they have a bunch of A220’s on order and AC doesn’t have a hiring or retention issue. They believe they can wait out the A220 arrivals by ceding market. They believe this will be cheaper in the end.

This is why they believe the shortage ( or spin the message) that the shortage is temporary.

Their thinking is flawed. They will cede market share and still have to pay market rates in the end. The sooner they accept reality the sooner they can get back to fighting the competition rather than its pilots.

However in the mean time, while AC stays focused on not paying pilots, it can’t be predicted how much pain AC management is willing to endure. There is a line somewhere. It’s too late for winter 2023/2024. They are currently closing in on a line in the sand for summer 2024.

This is just my opinion. I don’t think they will let this spread into summer 2024. But I’m guessing.

I’m hearing the line has been found, both groups are in final stages of a deal, we might hear something this coming week.
Of course it’s a rumour and my source has a source so we are talking third hand information, supposedly a good source though, shall see.

Hopefully something respectable. It’s been far too long of a wait

lol. I hate to quote myself . But Christ, that latest offer is horrific. Or as Shaquille O’Neil once said, that’s horrawful, horrendous and awful at the same time.

[CaptDukeNukem]

I'm voting for it. Feels a bit thin, but decent enough.

A little thin? Just like that $27 smoked meat sandwich at the closest $15 Uber ride restaurant in YUL? Comes with a pickle. Hope you like it.

[QKZXKV]

The proposal represents substantial monetary value in pay and benefits premiums. That value is tied to some items that the Company believes they require to recover the operation. The MOS does not meet the MEC’s expectations and the MEC is not convinced the MOS will meet the Company’s objectives either. However, at this juncture, the MEC has decided it would be irresponsible not to give you the opportunity to decide.

That would make the decision for me right there if I were still there!

[truedude]

I'm voting for it. Feels a bit thin, but decent enough.

A little thin? Just like that $27 smoked meat sandwich at the closest $15 Uber ride restaurant in YUL? Comes with a pickle. Hope you like it.

It is a 30% pay raise for some. I am sorry, but hard not to say that is a pretty good deal. And if it doesn't work, they will be back. But a 30% pay raise, more benefits covered... I just don't understand how anyone an say no to that.

[Dronepiper]

Ok but what is the new payscale??

[QKZXKV]

I'm voting for it. Feels a bit thin, but decent enough.

A little thin? Just like that $27 smoked meat sandwich at the closest $15 Uber ride restaurant in YUL? Comes with a pickle. Hope you like it.

And if it doesn't work, they will be back...

So then why not say "no" in a vote and then have them come back another time? If they feel this will fix the operation as Claude points out in the email. Then they'll need to try to "fix the operation" further if it's turned down.

[Full Ins]

$65 to start sounds like a good bump. And benefit costs for us reduced is big

[CaptDukeNukem]

Ok but what is the new payscale??

[Witolow]

In my opinion it still falls short on what we are fighting for. I am not trusting of the new minimum 30% flow agreement. Is it far fetched to say AC may ignore this % when it’s convenient for them to do so again? What power do we have to hold them accountable to this? Nothing.

The issue of OTS hires being taken before Jazz pilots over the last year is still not addressed. Jazz pilots who are still waiting to flow have missed out on hundreds of seniority numbers. This is directly linked to the inability for Jazz to attract and retain pilots because of the their payscale being the lowest in the country. Not the fault of the pilots waiting to flow, however they are the ones to suffer.

The pay increase is ok, we are still going to lag behind the E2 payscale at Porter by $21 per hour for first years FO’s. The Porter jump in payscale is impressive. 2nd year FO at Porter is $100 an hour… while the new proposed agreement would increase 1st year FO’s pay of $64.95 to 2nd year $67.90 per hour. That’s embarrassing.

I’m somewhat in agreement with Claude saying that everyone should decide if this really is what works for you. In my opinion it falls short.

[truedude]

A little thin? Just like that $27 smoked meat sandwich at the closest $15 Uber ride restaurant in YUL? Comes with a pickle. Hope you like it.

And if it doesn't work, they will be back...

So then why not say "no" in a vote and then have them come back another time? If they feel this will fix the operation as Claude points out in the email. Then they'll need to try to "fix the operation" further if it's turned down.

Not a gamble I am prepared to take. They also have a line in the sand for how much they are prepared to give, and simply live with the consequences if it isn't accepted. I don't know where that threshold exists, but I know they have it.

[Loading...]

It's a 50% increase for 1st yr FO. Pretty good deal tbh

[CaptDukeNukem]

And if it doesn't work, they will be back...

So then why not say "no" in a vote and then have them come back another time? If they feel this will fix the operation as Claude points out in the email. Then they'll need to try to "fix the operation" further if it's turned down.

Not a gamble I am prepared to take. They also have a line in the sand for how much they are prepared to give, and simply live with the consequences if it isn't accepted. I don't know where that threshold exists, but I know they have it.

It’s probably not at the first offer the company would make, but hey, life is a gamble as you said. Who knows… if you say no, maybe it’s worse, maybe it’s better. Mediocrity is how unions collect their dues.

[canadian_aviator_4]

Vote no. The pay scale doesn’t even reach 20 year until the end of this decade. Pretty much a free pay increase for jazz to give. Plus the note on %30 hiring or any % hiring to ac is meaningless.

[truedude]

So then why not say "no" in a vote and then have them come back another time? If they feel this will fix the operation as Claude points out in the email. Then they'll need to try to "fix the operation" further if it's turned down.

Not a gamble I am prepared to take. They also have a line in the sand for how much they are prepared to give, and simply live with the consequences if it isn't accepted. I don't know where that threshold exists, but I know they have it.

It’s probably not at the first offer the company would make, but hey, life is a gamble as you said. Who knows… if you say no, maybe it’s worse, maybe it’s better. Mediocrity is how unions collect their dues.

This isn't the first offer they have made. They have made several, and all have been turned down by the union. If you want to bet on the next one being better, feel free. Not a bet I will take.

Like I said, AC has a line in the sand, and level of surviablity they are prepared to endure if we ask to much. I think this is pretty close. And if it doesn't work, they come back. But the one thing they can't do, is blame us for it not working.

Vote yes!

[rudder]

Porter will be thrilled by the Jazz MOS. This deal will not prevent a single E-jet pilot from leaving. Probably won’t prevent Q400 defections either.

Whether this will pass or fail is a crap shoot. Given no MEC support and no road show it may tilt towards rejection.

This deal would be lucky to maintain the Jazz active line pilot population at 1000. That may also be a reason for the reduction to 30% AC flow.

It appears little or no actual rational was given to the precise terms of the MOS. It is just spaghetti being thrown against the wall.

Sad result after 12+ months of (wasted) effort. This was a so-so deal a year ago. Circa August 2023, this is not even competitive.

[truedude]

Porter will be thrilled by the Jazz MOS. This deal will not prevent a single E-jet pilot from leaving. Probably won’t prevent Q400 defections either.

Whether this will pass or fail is a crap shoot. Given no MEC support and no road show it may tilt towards rejection.

This deal would be lucky to maintain the Jazz active line pilot population at 1000. That may also be a reason for the reduction to 30% AC flow.

It appears little or no actual rational was given to the precise terms of the MOS. It is just spaghetti being thrown against the wall.

Sad result after 12+ months of (wasted) effort. This was a so-so deal a year ago. Circa August 2023, this is not even competitive.

And if it doesn't work. They will be back. But they won't be able to take it out on us. And I think that is important, because we are dealing with people, who are irrational. If we reject this, they will be looking for places to lay blame, and I am sure there are levels of surviabilty they are prepared to endure that we might not like.