Do not set the bar low again

[Fullflaps]

You guys were doing good. Keep it up and do not set the bar low for all Canadian pilots. Air canada pilots said no, westjet got a sweet deal, this isnt one. Vote yes and you ll remain AC's bottom feeders, bread crumbs eaters. Who the heck calls an airline Jazz anyways lol ?

[truedude]

You guys were doing good. Keep it up and do not set the bar low for all Canadian pilots. Air canada pilots said no, westjet got a sweet deal, this isnt one. Vote yes and you ll remain AC's bottom feeders, bread crumbs eaters. Who the heck calls an airline Jazz anyways lol ?

We aren't here to raise the bar for eveyrone else. And we aren't going to jepordize our existence for others. If this doesnt fix the issues, no one will come to jazz, and they will be back with more. If AC pilots want to help us raise the bar, they can put language back into their contract that states Jazz is the only teir 2 operator. That will give us the power to move things along.

[cdnavater]

You guys were doing good. Keep it up and do not set the bar low for all Canadian pilots. Air canada pilots said no, westjet got a sweet deal, this isnt one. Vote yes and you ll remain AC's bottom feeders, bread crumbs eaters. Who the heck calls an airline Jazz anyways lol ?

Yet another post made from complete ignorance, first we did not lower the bar, we followed the bar down into the gutter!
We also are not in a position of negotiating, the company approached the union over a year ago and wanted to increase the pay but only at the bottom, since in their minds, no one hired before 2015 was going to leave no matter what.
The union said NO, we fix all or nothing, here we are a year later with a proposal that is less than was already agreed to because Air Canada, who pays the wages, said NO.
We do not have the ability to renegotiate unless there is a willingness on their part, I am not a gambler, not going to roll the dice!
If you want to have a proper discussion about this, post where you work first, so we can be open with each other!

[flhfxd]

Jazz isn't an airline in the proper sense. It is a subcontractor which is managed by mainline through a firewall management team. Nothing more than that. Jazz pilots hands are tied in any negots because they have to go through the "middleman" first and this creates nothing but delay tactics and various other communication related issues. So if Jazz pilots want to capitalize on instant free money...good on them. If this plan doesn't work, there will be more offered later. Or they'll wind it up...whatever.

[Alkasultzer]

To sum up views above:

- Jazz isn't an airline

- The US model of capacity purchase agreements (CPAs) is completely different and they never whipsawed regionals off each down there. They simply got good wages by saying Yes to everything

- Say "Yes" to save Jazz from poor management of allowing their airline to be gutted. They can't afford to pay the industry wage of a King Air Captain

[Canadaflyer46]

The US regionals got their pay increases because of the 1500 rule creating a huge shortage. Transport won’t ever entertain that here because they’re too useless, and only show up to work a few hours a week anyway. Isn’t gonna happen here, they’d rather wind down the regional model as we’re seeing at Encore with half the amount of pilots as a couple of years ago and the fleet being sold off.

[unionism101]

US Regionals got their pay raises because they DEMANDED THEM

Full Stop

They recognized the environment and didn't budge

I love the excuses though

[Curiousflyer]

The pressure on AC management is starting to mount. Cancelling routes due to regional pilots shortage will get investors asking questions, it no doubt has dragged heavily on the stock already. It’s unfortunate that this vote was rushed, as an industry we’ve only seen poor decisions come from “urgent” votes. Jazz MEC should know better and should have given the membership appropriate time to view this agreement.

[JHR]

I think the downward spiral at Jazz started when the pilots agreed to become the lowest paid 757 drivers on the planet. Big mistake chasing that metal. Also a big mistake voting in a 17yr deal. Hopefully you can turn the place around. Good luck with whichever way you vote!

[hithere]

Ahh the revisionist historian. The amount of salary paid by Thomas Cook as a whole to the Jazz pilots was not the lowest on the planet, it was in line with what they paid for their other contracts. But what JAZ MEC at the time was, in order to preserve the status pay system, was distribute the money amongst all pilots on all types at Jazz.
Secondly, I’m pretty sure you guys have the lowest paid wide body FOs on the planet right now.

[Canpilot7]

Not sure I'd agree WestJet got a sweet deal considering they were in an actual contract negotiation and strike position. If their deal is sweet, dumping on this offer that's not to replace an expired contract seems like a double standard

[MontrealCanucks]

Secondly, I’m pretty sure you guys have the lowest paid wide body FOs on the planet right now.

The lowest paid Q400 pilots need to feed to the lowest paid wide body FOs

It's the Air Canada way. All while the executives take huge raises and laugh their way to the bank

[Canadaflyer46]

Not sure I'd agree WestJet got a sweet deal considering they were in an actual contract negotiation and strike position. If their deal is sweet, dumping on this offer that's not to replace an expired contract seems like a double standard

I agree. A 15% pay rise (7% when projected inflation is considered) is hardly a ‘sweet deal’. Despite capturing scope, it fell far short of the battle cries the union was making on the picket line.

[Curiousflyer]

Not sure I'd agree WestJet got a sweet deal considering they were in an actual contract negotiation and strike position. If their deal is sweet, dumping on this offer that's not to replace an expired contract seems like a double standard

I agree. A 15% pay rise (7% when projected inflation is considered) is hardly a ‘sweet deal’. Despite capturing scope, it fell far short of the battle cries the union was making on the picket line.

Uhh, perhaps you haven’t seen the pay scales but a 12 year WJ CA makes $50k more a year than AC. With a better contract in nearly every article, AC has maybe 3 articles out of 28 that are better than WJ.

[JHR]

Ahh the revisionist historian. The amount of salary paid by Thomas Cook as a whole to the Jazz pilots was not the lowest on the planet, it was in line with what they paid for their other contracts. But what JAZ MEC at the time was, in order to preserve the status pay system, was distribute the money amongst all pilots on all types at Jazz.
Secondly, I’m pretty sure you guys have the lowest paid wide body FOs on the planet right now.

Spin it how you want with the status pay argument. It doesn't matter what TC was paying Jazz. It matters what Jazz paid the 757 Captains..which was lower than any airline in the world at the time.
And yes, AC does have the lowest paid widebody FOs in the world. It's the Canadian way and it is disgraceful. Every once in a while there is a glimmer of hope that it will change but it never does. WJ is a prime example. Stale turds thrown into the pilot group and they ate it up and said it's the best tasting steak they ever had!

[cdnavater]

Ahh the revisionist historian. The amount of salary paid by Thomas Cook as a whole to the Jazz pilots was not the lowest on the planet, it was in line with what they paid for their other contracts. But what JAZ MEC at the time was, in order to preserve the status pay system, was distribute the money amongst all pilots on all types at Jazz.
Secondly, I’m pretty sure you guys have the lowest paid wide body FOs on the planet right now.

Spin it how you want with the status pay argument. It doesn't matter what TC was paying Jazz. It matters what Jazz paid the 757 Captains..which was lower than any airline in the world at the time.
And yes, AC does have the lowest paid widebody FOs in the world. It's the Canadian way and it is disgraceful. Every once in a while there is a glimmer of hope that it will change but it never does. WJ is a prime example. Stale turds thrown into the pilot group and they ate it up and said it's the best tasting steak they ever had!

Again, you don’t seem to understand what status pay is!
It was the going rate for a 757 pilot in both seats, then they took that difference from our current rates and divided up for all 1500 pilots, I don’t remember the exact amount of the increase but the funny thing was, after the 57s went away the pay didn’t go back down.
That was the net benefit, if we had a separate pay scale for the 57 and they left the fleet, those pilots would go back to the smaller fleet pay scale and those wages would be gone, so I’ll call that a win!

[SmokinJoe]

MEC UPDATE: Unity in the Air Canada Network August 24, 2023
Fellow pilots, Unity within our own pilot group continues to grow every day. This instills our MEC and Negotiating Committee with the resolve required to achieve the world-class contract that our pilot group rightfully deserves. Thank you for your continued support and engagement - it is critical while we are in bargaining.

Pilot unity within the Canadian pilot profession as a whole is becoming a force to be reckoned with, as more and more pilot groups join ALPA. The latest Canadian pilot group to certify with ALPA is Pascan Aviation which was preceded by the Keewatin and Lynx pilot groups. We are proud to be in the same union as 95% of our fellow unionized Canadian aviators. It is not lost on us that what we agree to as Air Canada pilots has ripple effects on the entire piloting profession within Canada. This is why our current contract negotiation is so vital to our profession. Now that we all are in the same union, it is imperative that as professional Canadian pilots, we all come together and keep repeating to our respective employers – the discount on professional Canadian pilot labour is over.

Unity means standing together with our fellow professional pilot colleagues in Canada and putting a stop to the whipsaw that has plagued our profession, north of the 49th parallel, for far too long. It is one of the reasons this pilot group chose to merge with ALPA – to show unity with our fellow professionals in Canada and North America. It is why we stood shoulder to shoulder with our colleagues at WestJet in their fight for their Collective Agreement #2, and why our Negotiating Committee has opened the lines of communication with their counterparts at Air Transat. Our MEC is committed to stopping the age-old management tactic of pitting one pilot group against another, by dangling promises of flying and airplanes, while their primary scheme is to collect a discount on our valuable pilot skillset.

Our Company has exploited the divisions in our own pilot group for far too long – junior versus senior, widebody versus narrowbody, mainline versus rouge, DB versus CWIPP, base versus base, and the list unfortunately goes on and on. Air Canada has also skillfully deployed this tactic by trying to pit mainline pilots versus regional pilots.

As many of you are aware, the Jazz MEC recently sent Memorandum of Settlement (MoS) #7 to their pilot group for ratification. The pilot attraction and retention issues at our regional, Jazz Aviation, are too large to keep ignoring. It was mentioned during Air Canada’s Q2 announcement and is making waves in the media, as these issues directly affect our network capacity and structure, not to mention the advancement and quality of life of Air Canada pilots. As Air Canada stated in the Q2 results news release: “We are increasing our efforts to protect the customer journey from disruption, regardless of the cause. This includes using any influence we have, in such instances as pilot attrition at our principal regional partner…”.

Many Jazz pilots are no longer waiting to flow to Air Canada, and are instead seeking greener pastures by going to WestJet, Porter, and any other airline where the pay rates are substantially higher. The current flow through rate of 60% from Jazz to Air Canada was not met last year. The pilot pipeline is clearly broken.

Air Canada has a problem that requires a solution, and even though the Jazz pilots are not in an open bargaining cycle, there is a deal before them that management believes may solve this problem. This brings up memories of our own Memorandum of Agreement (MOA) that was sent out for ratification while we were still in a closed contract during the fall of last year.

Your Air Canada MEC established a relationship with the Jazz MEC based on open communication, transparency, and started sowing the seeds of trust at the beginning of the year. Both MECs realize our greatest strength is leveraging our unity for significant gains for our respective pilot groups. It is your MEC’s job to represent and protect all Air Canada pilots to the best of our ability and leverage all opportunities. The Jazz MEC Executive has kept your MEC Executive informed while they have been in negotiations with their employer, Jazz Aviation, for almost a year. Many of our pilots who are former Jazz pilots are well aware of the struggles of working under a Capacity Purchase Agreement (CPA). The Jazz pilot group negotiating a substantial wage increase, helps in our endeavor to do the same for our pilot group. Afterall, the rising tide lifts all ships, but our employers tend to poke holes in any ships that may be rising.

Your MEC recognizes the Jazz MEC is in a difficult position and understands why they chose to share this deal with their pilot group without a recommendation, as there is no clarity on the future of our profession in Canada. While our own negotiations are still in the initial stages, and the Jazz pilot group is well ahead of ours, these two bargaining tables do not occur in isolation. The Jazz MEC has been attempting to extract as much value as possible for their pilots for over a year, as they explain in their communication to their membership: “The proposal represents substantial monetary value in pay and benefits premiums. That value is tied to some items that the Company believes they require to recover the operation.The MOS does not meet the MEC’s expectations and the MEC is not convinced the MOS will meet the Company’s objectives either. However, at this juncture, the MEC has decided it would be irresponsible not to give you the opportunity to decide.”

There is value in this deal – the question before the Jazz pilots is a rather simple one – is it enough value?

As we saw south of the border, wages increased substantially at the regionals to attract and retain talent. The massive pay increases we have seen in the United States began at the regional level because, as the Financial Times article states, “We created our own problem,” Darby said. “It’s like eating your own young.”

This Air Canada ALPA MEC is committed to stopping the whipsaw between pilot groups. Our employers have a significant problem they need to solve when it comes to our regional flying and to our overall network. To solve pilot supply problems in our current economic environment requires a significant financial investment from all stakeholders. Your MEC is committed to working closely with the Jazz pilots and ensuring that these issues are addressed in our negotiation.

If ever there was a time for solidarity and unity, now is that moment. As Air Canada pilots, we have tremendous contractual needs that must be properly addressed for this airline to maintain its pilot ranks and world class status. We are at a unique crossroads in time where your MEC believes we can achieve the improvements needed, but it will take the proverbial village of airline pilots coming together to succeed. We are confident that working with the Jazz pilots and others will lift all boats and ensure that this pilot group leaves the industry better than we found it.

Fly Safe & Stay Engaged,
Your Air Canada MEC

[rudder]

Good bulletin. But these are platitudes. Easy to write words. But if you want to get the attention of the decision makers then actions speak louder than words.

Coordinated bargaining. Mutual assistance. Integrated committees.

Let’s see if it just words or action.

[Babar350]

Good bulletin. But these are platitudes. Easy to write words. But if you want to get the attention of the decision makers then actions speak louder than words.

Coordinated bargaining. Mutual assistance. Integrated committees.

Let’s see if it just words or action.

Have you ever seen this kind of communication with the ACPA? I think that's a good start. Now let's see how the vote goes.

[cdnavater]

Good bulletin. But these are platitudes. Easy to write words. But if you want to get the attention of the decision makers then actions speak louder than words.

Coordinated bargaining. Mutual assistance. Integrated committees.

Let’s see if it just words or action.

Have you ever seen this kind of communication with the ACPA? I think that's a good start. Now let's see how the vote goes.

Absolutely, would love to see the relationship change and if we had some assurance that the AC negotiations would include a minimum pay for regional lift that is more than this current offer, it’s just sentiment, nothing more.