TUI style

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DHC-1 Jockey
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Re: TUI style

Post by DHC-1 Jockey »

cdnavater wrote: Sun Aug 20, 2023 4:02 pm it is good for the company not the pilots, simple really.
Of course it's good for the company. A company (ANY company) isn't going to hurt itself by carrying extra staff it doesn't need. And, you're saying it's "not good for the pilots," but it looks like you actually mean it's "not good for the theoretical pilots who aren't on staff but could be." You're advocating for theoretical people who aren't even employed at Flair. Flair, or any company for that matter has no obligation to those it does not currently employ.

Here's another example. My best friend is a partner in a medium-sized boutique accounting firm that deals with high net-wealth individuals. For most of the year, they have "X" number of accountants on staff. They work a lot, but the firm has decided that "X" is an appropriate number to run their operation and make a nice profit without the costs of excess staff. However, come tax season they do bring on extra staff to assist with the busy season.

By your logic, it would be akin to an accountant taking to the web and decrying that "Smith, Jones and Harris (not their real name) should hire and employ more accountants year-round! It doesn't matter that they have a seasonal aspect to their work. By not keeping excess accountants on staff all year, they're depressing accounting wages nation wide!"

Do you now see the flawed logic in your argument? I can only imagine the laugh my buddy would have if I told him he should hire more accountants year-round just to augment their busy tax season in the spring. Or, if I told him that buy not hiring more accountants, it's only good for the company and he's driving down the wages of accountants in the area. He'd say I'm crazy.

Lastly, if it works for the pilots at Flair as it does for the pilots at Sunwing, who are you to complain on their behalf? If they're happy with the work terms and conditions associated with this type of seasonal work, that should be the end of your argument. I always found it funny those pilots who didn't work for Sunwing and didn't "get" the program who used to talk it down, even after I explained it to them. Which was fine, and is why I and a lot of Sunwing pilots called the deployment program the "greatest hidden secret in Canadian aviation." I can tell you a lot of them are sad that it's ending with the WestJet merger.
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Apestogetherstrong
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Re: TUI style

Post by Apestogetherstrong »

Flair is bleeding pilots right now. Told you guys to make year 1 FO salary 89k. You guys going to wait till 2025? There’s still time to retain experienced pilots and make it attractive for people to leave Porter and come to Flair. Tick tock :smt040
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cdnavater
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Re: TUI style

Post by cdnavater »

DHC-1 Jockey wrote: Sun Aug 20, 2023 4:57 pm
cdnavater wrote: Sun Aug 20, 2023 4:02 pm it is good for the company not the pilots, simple really.
Of course it's good for the company. A company (ANY company) isn't going to hurt itself by carrying extra staff it doesn't need. And, you're saying it's "not good for the pilots," but it looks like you actually mean it's "not good for the theoretical pilots who aren't on staff but could be." You're advocating for theoretical people who aren't even employed at Flair. Flair, or any company for that matter has no obligation to those it does not currently employ.

Here's another example. My best friend is a partner in a medium-sized boutique accounting firm that deals with high net-wealth individuals. For most of the year, they have "X" number of accountants on staff. They work a lot, but the firm has decided that "X" is an appropriate number to run their operation and make a nice profit without the costs of excess staff. However, come tax season they do bring on extra staff to assist with the busy season.

By your logic, it would be akin to an accountant taking to the web and decrying that "Smith, Jones and Harris (not their real name) should hire and employ more accountants year-round! It doesn't matter that they have a seasonal aspect to their work. By not keeping excess accountants on staff all year, they're depressing accounting wages nation wide!"

Do you now see the flawed logic in your argument? I can only imagine the laugh my buddy would have if I told him he should hire more accountants year-round just to augment their busy tax season in the spring. Or, if I told him that buy not hiring more accountants, it's only good for the company and he's driving down the wages of accountants in the area. He'd say I'm crazy.

Lastly, if it works for the pilots at Flair as it does for the pilots at Sunwing, who are you to complain on their behalf? If they're happy with the work terms and conditions associated with this type of seasonal work, that should be the end of your argument. I always found it funny those pilots who didn't work for Sunwing and didn't "get" the program who used to talk it down, even after I explained it to them. Which was fine, and is why I and a lot of Sunwing pilots called the deployment program the "greatest hidden secret in Canadian aviation." I can tell you a lot of them are sad that it's ending with the WestJet merger.
Look, your example still falls short of airline reality, you’re talking about accountants who are not required to undergo training and checking every 6 months, they simply sit down at their desks and put their skills to use, so if they accept temporary employment every tax season, that’s their choice. I also doubt it’s fully certified accountants doing this, likely someone with finance training or just out of school accountants hoping to be kept on at the end.
I don’t care about Flair and their cost savings measures, pilots need to look out for pilots, when pilots allow their companies to drive the industry down, it affects all. Look at how far Jazz has had to come down for that very reason, pilots took jobs for much less for the same work(Swoop, SR, GGN) driving the wages down or stagnating them for years. When one company drives it down, we all feel it.
Just because Sunwing and Flair pilots accept it, doesn’t mean the rest of have to, again, what if AC did this with Quantas, we all ok with that? 10% of the AC fleet supplemented would be significant, it’s not just two aircraft, it’s the beginning!
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SPR
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Re: TUI style

Post by SPR »

DHC-1 Jockey wrote: Sun Aug 20, 2023 4:57 pm However, come tax season they do bring on extra staff to assist with the busy season.
Does your buddy hire Canadian accountants, or does he bring in foreign workers?
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DHC-1 Jockey
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Re: TUI style

Post by DHC-1 Jockey »

SPR wrote: Mon Aug 21, 2023 7:44 am
DHC-1 Jockey wrote: Sun Aug 20, 2023 4:57 pm However, come tax season they do bring on extra staff to assist with the busy season.
Does your buddy hire Canadian accountants, or does he bring in foreign workers?
Definitely not foreign workers. They hire Canadians.
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SPR
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Re: TUI style

Post by SPR »

DHC-1 Jockey wrote: Mon Aug 21, 2023 8:25 am Definitely not foreign workers. They hire Canadians.
And therein lies the difference. Flair won't be hiring seasonal Canadian workers, they'll be bringing in Australian employees. How does that benefit Canadian pilots?
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afterburner&smoke
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Re: TUI style

Post by afterburner&smoke »

Would Flair consider a deal with TUI to deploy pilots both in winter and summer? Winter going to Australia and summer to Europe?
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boeingboy
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Re: TUI style

Post by boeingboy »

afterburner&smoke wrote: Thu Aug 31, 2023 6:40 am Would Flair consider a deal with TUI to deploy pilots both in winter and summer? Winter going to Australia and summer to Europe?
No. Why would they?

You would also have to ask yourself why would TUI do it? It has to be a reciprocal agreement so if Flair doesn't have enough business to keep all the planes here in the winter - why would they lease TUI aircraft to come here? Flair also cant afford to send planes to Europe in the summer either - so there is no point to any of it.
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Aviator12
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Re: TUI style

Post by Aviator12 »

https://australianaviation.com.au/2023/ ... are-spare/

Doesn’t look like we will see Bonza planes anytime soon in Canada. I wonder if the Flair aircraft will be staying in Australia for now to help Bonza expand…
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Aviator12
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Re: TUI stylegg

Post by Aviator12 »

https://www.bay939.com.au/local-news/ho ... t-flights/

Seems the Flair agreement with Bonza is off to a rough start…unanticipated regulatory delays.
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