Making 200k+ and going to AC for 55k?

[Vanguard]

It is sad that they had to do this and embarrassment for our pilot group in general which we will address this new contract, however as perspective in our last company bid...the most junior A220 CA was hired November 2023.

Nov 2023? I love futurama.

What is the actual date?

haha my bad. It was 2022 edited*

[YYZshill]

Nobody should be applying at AC right now unless it is your first job out of school

I got rejected with 750hrs for FO, but you go for it. Meanwhile I'm eyeing Jazz and Encore

Have you tried getting 1250 more hours?

[Canpilot7]

Interestingly, flat pay is the part of the contract that always gets the most attention, but it's the other parts of the contract that I find fall way below Canadian industry standard (let alone global).

Scheduling, credit protection, reserve rules and credit, vacation.... Those are all things that when I hear stories it gives me goosebumps. At least you get off flat pay, all those other parts of the contract stay for your career. Hopefully lots of good things coming in the new deal (good time for pilots at AC to spend time looking at other contracts, NOT staring just at pay grids that tell half the story). Pay grids are nice, but keep in mind the best day at work is one where you're getting paid time and a half to sit at home because your contract was made well

[Me262]

Nobody should be applying at AC right now unless it is your first job out of school

I got rejected with 750hrs for FO, but you go for it. Meanwhile I'm eyeing Jazz and Encore

Have you tried getting 1250 more hours?

Buddy just hit 1500 and got his ATPL. AC said come back when you have 2000 (as per their page). Sure doesn't seem like AC main is hurting too much.

Interestingly, flat pay is the part of the contract that always gets the most attention, but it's the other parts of the contract that I find fall way below Canadian industry standard (let alone global).

Global as in pretty much the US? EASA is paying even more peanuts than Canada. UK is not any better.

[Blueontop]

Can anyone post what the upgrade times are for the 220, 319, and the 737 are?

[flyingcanuck]

Can anyone post what the upgrade times are for the 220, 319, and the 737 are?

1-2 years basically

[IKEA_Monkey]

1-2 years until it's not. Somewhere out there is the next 10 year FO. Will it be you?

[YYZshill]

I got rejected with 750hrs for FO, but you go for it. Meanwhile I'm eyeing Jazz and Encore

Have you tried getting 1250 more hours?

Buddy just hit 1500 and got his ATPL. AC said come back when you have 2000 (as per their page). Sure doesn't seem like AC main is hurting too much.

Interestingly, flat pay is the part of the contract that always gets the most attention, but it's the other parts of the contract that I find fall way below Canadian industry standard (let alone global).

Global as in pretty much the US? EASA is paying even more peanuts than Canada. UK is not any better.

"Nobody should be applying at AC right now unless it is your first job out of school"

I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic since AC pays the lowest right now, other than PAL. AC requires are hard minimum of 2000, Idk what you guys were expecting applying without the hours required?

[acornot]

Thanks everyone. I appreciate all the replies.

I have decided not to join AC. Even though my current financial situation is great (zero debts, no ex wife, no kids), I cannot justify slashing my income by 4 or 5. Long term, I will have some regrets surely. I would sure love to fly a widebody and layover in Europe etc, but I really enjoy my financial freedom and all the things I can do (including travelling) on my free time.

Thanks all.

[Man_in_the_sky]

I mean, takes some of your 200k, buy confirmed tickets and go enjoy it more than 24 hours

[Canpilot7]

I got rejected with 750hrs for FO, but you go for it. Meanwhile I'm eyeing Jazz and Encore

Have you tried getting 1250 more hours?

Buddy just hit 1500 and got his ATPL. AC said come back when you have 2000 (as per their page). Sure doesn't seem like AC main is hurting too much.

Interestingly, flat pay is the part of the contract that always gets the most attention, but it's the other parts of the contract that I find fall way below Canadian industry standard (let alone global).

Global as in pretty much the US? EASA is paying even more peanuts than Canada. UK is not any better.

Referring to quality of life in the contract, not pay

[Me262]

Thanks everyone. I appreciate all the replies.

I have decided not to join AC. Even though my current financial situation is great (zero debts, no ex wife, no kids), I cannot justify slashing my income by 4 or 5. Long term, I will have some regrets surely. I would sure love to fly a widebody and layover in Europe etc, but I really enjoy my financial freedom and all the things I can do (including travelling) on my free time.

Thanks all.

You are a CA, as in Certified Accountant?

[FL030]

Thanks everyone. I appreciate all the replies.

I have decided not to join AC. Even though my current financial situation is great (zero debts, no ex wife, no kids), I cannot justify slashing my income by 4 or 5. Long term, I will have some regrets surely. I would sure love to fly a widebody and layover in Europe etc, but I really enjoy my financial freedom and all the things I can do (including travelling) on my free time.

Thanks all.

Good for you. Not accepting the current contract is the right choice.

[Dias]

October blocks already out. So it is possible. They're afraid.

[Blueontop]

October blocks already out. So it is possible. They're afraid.

What is possible?

[Dry Guy]

What is possible?

Usually you don't get your monthly schedule until a few days before the start of the month. So if you have days off at the beginning of the month they're basically useless because you can't plan to do anything ahead of time. Suddenly, with negotiations started, we got our schedule 1-2 weeks earlier than normal.

[daedalusx]

European carriers by EASA law are force to publish their schedule 14 days in advance, and I think some of the American majors had it in their last contract to be more than that but I can’t recall which one(s).

Personally I think it should be 4-6 weeks ahead.

[Canpilot7]

European carriers by EASA law are force to publish their schedule 14 days in advance, and I think some of the American majors had it in their last contract to be more than that but I can’t recall which one(s).

Personally I think it should be 4-6 weeks ahead.

This would be another "the government doesn't tax it" benefit to have in the next contract. Seems to be in nearly zero contracts, would love to see it start to spread and normalize.

[DanWEC]

What is possible?

Usually you don't get your monthly schedule until a few days before the start of the month. So if you have days off at the beginning of the month they're basically useless because you can't plan to do anything ahead of time. Suddenly, with negotiations started, we got our schedule 1-2 weeks earlier than normal.

Seriously? Is there not a hard date in your CBA for schedule release?

[Curiousflyer]

What is possible?

Usually you don't get your monthly schedule until a few days before the start of the month. So if you have days off at the beginning of the month they're basically useless because you can't plan to do anything ahead of time. Suddenly, with negotiations started, we got our schedule 1-2 weeks earlier than normal.

Seriously? Is there not a hard date in your CBA for schedule release?

There is no hard date for schedule release in the collective agreement.

[DanWEC]

There is no hard date for schedule release in the collective agreement.

That's surprising. I've only worked for 2 705's but both had established publication dates. Thought that was the norm. When does the sked typically come out?

I've always hated this aspect. The company knows the flights months ahead, with just minimal changes. I suppose with sked-or-better rigs, advance schedules could cost the company a small amount.

Who lobbied EASA to include the 14 day requirement? This NEEDS to happen here.

[NovaBoy]

Even PAL has a schedule release date in their CBA

[Daniel Cooper]

Even PAL has a schedule release date in their CBA

Well PAL is ALPA

[Curiousflyer]

There is no hard date for schedule release in the collective agreement.

That's surprising. I've only worked for 2 705's but both had established publication dates. Thought that was the norm. When does the sked typically come out?

I've always hated this aspect. The company knows the flights months ahead, with just minimal changes. I suppose with sked-or-better rigs, advance schedules could cost the company a small amount.

Who lobbied EASA to include the 14 day requirement? This NEEDS to happen here.

Typically schedules come out quite late, but October schedules are available already. Generally pilot schedules come out around the 25th of the month, plus or minus a couple of days.

The delay for pilot schedules being released is very advantageous for the company, as it allows them to modify aircraft types on routes. There are arguably 5 narrow bodies and 3 wide bodies, all require new pilot schedules if the company wants to upgauge or downguage an aircraft. At a company like WestJet, they can be much more flexible without needing new crew by changing from a -700,-800, or MAX-8.

[Exactive22]

In Europe you also have a legal minimum of 20 paid days of vacation, not including stat holidays. Europeans average 25-30 vacation days a year. Meanwhile you get 10 in Canada and everyone is fighting for that extra pay that you will be taxed on 50%... Hope you guys will find a way out of this without being blinded by the $$.