Crashed on Takeoff Thread

[pelmet]

From TSB...

C-FKXY, a privately registered GC-1B (Globe Swift), was conducting a VFR flight from
Plattsville/Lubitz Flying Field (CLB2), ON, to Guelph Airport (CNC4), ON, with two pilots on board.
After takeoff from runway 25, a 1980' x 75' grass runway, the aircraft did not accelerate as
expected. Without sufficient runway to reject the takeoff, the pilot attempted to gather speed while
remaining in ground effect, but once the aircraft was over the corn field at the end of the runway
the ground effect was diminished, and the aircraft began to decelerate. The pilot lowered the nose
and landed in the cornfield. Both main landing gear collapsed, and there was also damage to the
nose and leading edges of the wings. The ELT did activate following the emergency landing, there
were no injuries.

[Eric Janson]

Forced landing straight ahead was the correct option in this case imho.

Here's what happens when you try to keep going:-

https://youtu.be/e633FqBoDh8

Hard to believe these things still happen.

[lownslow]

Forced landing straight ahead was the correct option in this case imho.

Having seen pics of the aftermath, this could not have been handled any better than it was. Some days you just get forced to pick the best bad option.

[pelmet]

Forced landing straight ahead was the correct option in this case imho.

Having seen pics of the aftermath, this could not have been handled any better than it was. Some days you just get forced to pick the best bad option.

It would be interesting to know the runway conditions. Interesting about losing the ground effect because of the of the corn.

[lownslow]

Interesting about losing the ground effect because of the of the corn.

I wasn’t there, but it was apparently witnessed by at least one TSB investigator (or TC inspector? You know how people get mixed up on details). Stating corn killed ground effect is pretty bold for a preliminary, more likely the airplane was observed to slow down or sink for reasons as yet unknown.

[goldeneagle]

Interesting about losing the ground effect because of the of the corn.

I wasn’t there, but it was apparently witnessed by at least one TSB investigator (or TC inspector? You know how people get mixed up on details). Stating corn killed ground effect is pretty bold for a preliminary, more likely the airplane was observed to slow down or sink for reasons as yet unknown.

A more accurate description is likely 'the aircraft slowed as it climbed out of ground effect to avoid hitting the corn'. The corn didn't kill the ground effect, it forced the airplane to climb out of ground effect.

[fleet16b]

The reality of the incident
The new owner of the aircraft had only 2 familiarization flights in right seat and had never done even one landing
The flight to Lubitz Field was her first time left seat
. There was an experienced pilot in the right seat but he had no time in type .
Both were advised against the flight but elected to go anyway.
On arrival at Lubitz , the aircraft almost went off the end of the runway on landing. This should have been a warning sign.
The field is 1980ft grass , short for a Swift with full fuel and two people
The aircraft had full power on take off but did not have a pilot with sufficient experience on type and the field was too short.
The aircraft never got out of ground effect and mushed into the corn. It had no choice .
Factors:
The field is short and grass , it was a warm day , full fuel two people. The Globe Swift is a bit of a dog even on pavement. Even a 2000 ft paved runway would be short for an inexperienced pilot like the owner is.
Totally avoidable accident .

[digits_]

Both were advised against the flight but elected to go anyway.

For what reason? By whom?

On arrival at Lubitz , the aircraft almost went off the end of the runway on landing. This should have been a warning sign.
The field is 1980ft grass , short for a Swift with full fuel and two people
The aircraft had full power on take off but did not have a pilot with sufficient experience on type and the field was too short.
The aircraft never got out of ground effect and mushed into the corn. It had no choice .
Factors:
The field is short and grass , it was a warm day , full fuel two people. The Globe Swift is a bit of a dog even on pavement. Even a 2000 ft paved runway would be short for an inexperienced pilot like the owner is.
Totally avoidable accident .

Yikes... That's a shame... Pretty ballsy move to do short field take offs and landings on your first PIC flight...

[pelmet]

The reality of the incident
The new owner of the aircraft had only 2 familiarization flights in right seat and had never done even one landing
The flight to Lubitz Field was her first time left seat
. There was an experienced pilot in the right seat but he had no time in type .
Both were advised against the flight but elected to go anyway.
On arrival at Lubitz , the aircraft almost went off the end of the runway on landing. This should have been a warning sign.
The field is 1980ft grass , short for a Swift with full fuel and two people
The aircraft had full power on take off but did not have a pilot with sufficient experience on type and the field was too short.
The aircraft never got out of ground effect and mushed into the corn. It had no choice .
Factors:
The field is short and grass , it was a warm day , full fuel two people. The Globe Swift is a bit of a dog even on pavement. Even a 2000 ft paved runway would be short for an inexperienced pilot like the owner is.
Totally avoidable accident .

This is a reason why I post these accidents from the TSB. In the hope that people in the know will post more details and allow better analysis with info that the TSB does not provide.

Assuming all is true, we now have much more detail. Perhaps ten years from now, an inexperienced pilot will read through this forum and learn from it.

Curious to know the total experience of the PIC and whether that person was known fairly sharp pilot or a weaker pilot. Also of there was a particular reason for choosing to go to this airfield as a first destination.

[fleet16b]

Both were advised against the flight but elected to go anyway.

For what reason? By whom?

On arrival at Lubitz , the aircraft almost went off the end of the runway on landing. This should have been a warning sign.
The field is 1980ft grass , short for a Swift with full fuel and two people
The aircraft had full power on take off but did not have a pilot with sufficient experience on type and the field was too short.
The aircraft never got out of ground effect and mushed into the corn. It had no choice .
Factors:
The field is short and grass , it was a warm day , full fuel two people. The Globe Swift is a bit of a dog even on pavement. Even a 2000 ft paved runway would be short for an inexperienced pilot like the owner is.
Totally avoidable accident .

Yikes... That's a shame... Pretty ballsy move to do short field take offs and landings on your first PIC flight...

They owner and her copilot asked a pilot at their home field (who himself had only flown the aircraft 4 times) if they should take the aircraft to Lubitz . He advised them to stay at the home base and practice takeoffs and landings in order to become familiar with the capabilities of the aircraft.
As we know they went against the advice

They were not attempting short fiend landings or take offs , they just didn’t know the airplane plain and simple

[fleet16b]

The reality of the incident
The new owner of the aircraft had only 2 familiarization flights in right seat and had never done even one landing
The flight to Lubitz Field was her first time left seat
. There was an experienced pilot in the right seat but he had no time in type .
Both were advised against the flight but elected to go anyway.
On arrival at Lubitz , the aircraft almost went off the end of the runway on landing. This should have been a warning sign.
The field is 1980ft grass , short for a Swift with full fuel and two people
The aircraft had full power on take off but did not have a pilot with sufficient experience on type and the field was too short.
The aircraft never got out of ground effect and mushed into the corn. It had no choice .
Factors:
The field is short and grass , it was a warm day , full fuel two people. The Globe Swift is a bit of a dog even on pavement. Even a 2000 ft paved runway would be short for an inexperienced pilot like the owner is.
Totally avoidable accident .

This is a reason why I post these accidents from the TSB. In the hope that people in the know will post more details and allow better analysis with info that the TSB does not provide.

Assuming all is true, we now have much more detail. Perhaps ten years from now, an inexperienced pilot will read through this forum and learn from it.

Curious to know the total experience of the PIC and whether that person was known fairly sharp pilot or a weaker pilot. Also of there was a particular reason for choosing to go to this airfield as a first destination.

I cannot comment on the PiC/ Swift owners total hours but the person , a rather new CPL recently landed a job as a right seat on a Q400.
Not that means anything . In this and age it seems like any low time CPL can get an airline job.

The PIC had owned the airplane less that 3 weeks and wanted to take it to an aviation event happening at Lubitz Field.

I won’t comment publicly on the strengths or weaknesses of said pilot

[digits_]

That's an interesting human factors case. Thanks for sharing!

[pelmet]

The reality of the incident
The new owner of the aircraft had only 2 familiarization flights in right seat and had never done even one landing
The flight to Lubitz Field was her first time left seat
. There was an experienced pilot in the right seat but he had no time in type .
Both were advised against the flight but elected to go anyway.
On arrival at Lubitz , the aircraft almost went off the end of the runway on landing. This should have been a warning sign.
The field is 1980ft grass , short for a Swift with full fuel and two people
The aircraft had full power on take off but did not have a pilot with sufficient experience on type and the field was too short.
The aircraft never got out of ground effect and mushed into the corn. It had no choice .
Factors:
The field is short and grass , it was a warm day , full fuel two people. The Globe Swift is a bit of a dog even on pavement. Even a 2000 ft paved runway would be short for an inexperienced pilot like the owner is.
Totally avoidable accident .

This is a reason why I post these accidents from the TSB. In the hope that people in the know will post more details and allow better analysis with info that the TSB does not provide.

Assuming all is true, we now have much more detail. Perhaps ten years from now, an inexperienced pilot will read through this forum and learn from it.

Curious to know the total experience of the PIC and if there was a particular reason for choosing to go to this airfield as a first destination.

I cannot comment on the PiC/ Swift owners total hours but the person , a rather new CPL recently landed a job as a right seat on a Q400.
Not that means anything . In this and age it seems like any low time CPL can get an airline job.

The PIC had owned the airplane less that 3 weeks and wanted to take it to an aviation event happening at Lubitz Field.

Thanks, I think we have all the info we need and now it makes sense as to why they were going to this airport in the first place. It didn’t quite make sense at first as to why they would go to a short strip like this.

We all can make mistakes.

Having gotten bored of renting aircraft at local airports to see the same old thing, I decided a few years ago to instead to switch to renting on layovers or vacations. This has lead to a lot more interesting flying.

A few weeks ago, I was with an instructor in a two-seat LSA equivalent going to a grass strip. Neither of us had been to this airport before. I did mention that it is a good idea to phone ahead and get runway conditions in a situation like this but that was not done. He did show me a picture of it from the internet and it looked reasonably long. The fuel was noted on the pre-flight to be a bit low but on the other hand, it was only about a 25 minute flight each way. It was decided to fuel up and he topped off the tanks.

When we got there, I saw on final that the runway had a displaced threshold, looked somewhat short and had 50 foot trees to descend over. An overshoot was done and we came back for a better approach with a side slip to get down fast after the trees. After landing, it became more apparent to me that the 50 foot trees completely surround the airport. This means we have a concern getting out of the place. The reality is that once I became aware of the shorter than expected runway, I became focused on getting into the airport safely, but did not make any consideration prior to going in about if there could be a problem getting out. The weather was sunny, twenty three degrees, and no wind with likely max takeoff weight. In addition, heavy rains from the previous week meant that while the ground was not overly soft, it was certainly not dry and the grass while not long, was not nice and short.

I mentioned my concern to the instructor with the big question in my mind, should I stay behind at the airport so that he can takeoff alone. We talked to the person giving airport advisories about whether we would be allowed to use what I would guess was 7-800 feet prior to the displaced threshold for takeoff. The answer is that it is not allowed but no one reports such a thing. We were also told that although we could not see it from our position, there is a cutout in the trees on the left side of the runway near the end and most aircraft would get airborne and then do an immediate left turn before the end of the runway and climb out over the river.

The airport was actually fairly busy and the aircraft were using the full length for takeoff. After watching a Piper Cherokee with four people in it takeoff and do the turnout(he would not have cleared the trees straight ahead) and another aircraft of the same type as us(but single person and unknown fuel level) get airborne with room to spare, I felt much better.

All worked out but I felt like I made insufficient considerations that could have resulted in a takeoff issue.

[pelmet]

From TSB....

C-FNEH, a privately registered Cessna 140, registration C-FNEH, collided with two parked aircraft
at Ottawa/Rockcliffe Airport (CYRO), ON, while attempting to takeoff from a taxiway. An individual
was in the process of stealing the aircraft. As a result of the collision, the emergency locator
transmitter (ELT) activated. The Rockcliffe Flying Club reported the occurrence to the Ottawa
Police Services who responded with EMS. The sole occupant received minor injuries, was taken
into custody and transported to a local hospital. There was extensive damage to the nose and left
wing. The ELT activated.


https://skiesmag.com/news/ottawa-police ... e-airport/

[pdw]

From TSB...

”once the aircraft was over the corn field at the end of the runway the ground effect was diminished, and the aircraft began to decelerate. The pilot lowered the nose …”

It was airborne over the corn and it decelerated over it. The pilot lowered the nose after that. The diminished ground effect ascending close over the corn was in addition to reduced lift of the higher density altitude above the high-moisture emission of the plants.

It was 20years ago Aug 14 2003 at the same time of day also with 2000ft on rwy 24 at Iroquois Ontario, where a CYSN- based Cherokee Six stalled during takeoff well past the end over dense vegetation.

The wet lush growth of a tall green corn field in this case would have very moist air above it, similar effect as dense forest/swampy-bush (gmaps) after the rwy end at Iroquois at the time, in an afternoon sun with high-rate evaporation and transpiration. Once the aircraft cuts into that air towards 100RH it takes extra angle of attack (induces more drag) than at same speed with 50RH when still over the airfield (in both instances), and the engine then consumes that same reduced-density / very-humid air for guaranteed slightly lesser power.

[smallwheelintheback]

Only $38k and it can now be yours to rebuild!

https://www.facebook.com/groups/aircraf ... 485753203/

Don't worry, prop strike was at idle

[pelmet]

From TSB...

C-GGHB, a Cessna 172N, which was privately registered to the Salmon Arm Flying Club, was
being flown in the circuit at the Salmon Arm Airport (CZAM), BC, with only the pilot on board. After
touching down approximately 750 feet past the threshold of Runway 32, the pilot configured the
aircraft and applied full power for the next takeoff. The aircraft lifted off at 55 knots and, when it
was climbing through approximately 15 feet above ground level, the pilot felt the aircraft was
descending. The pilot reduced power and attempted to land on the remaining runway. The aircraft
floated along the runway and then touched down near the end of the runway. Runway 32 has a
1.9% downslope for the first 1400 feet. Brakes were applied but the aircraft departed the end of the
runway, crossed the gravel, and entered the brush approximately 270 feet past the end of Runway
32. The aircraft nosed over and came to rest inverted. The pilot egressed and had minor injuries.
The aircraft was substantially damaged. The aircraft sustained damage to the nose, both wings, and the tail. It was recovered and moved to
a hangar where it will be assessed for repairs.