FLAIR NOT PAYING PILOTS FOR WORK

[Apestogetherstrong]

My friends tell me that Flair is not following the contract. Recently there was a lot of commotion about pilots not getting paid correctly and the ALPA reps deleted the internal chat group due to a lot of negativity within the pilot group. Apparently pilots are not paid according to the contract when it comes to multi day pairings where pilots have a layover. They only get the credit for day 1 and day 4 but day 2 and 3 (which involves a layover) are not paid. The ALPA reps have done nothing about it for the last couple months are pilots are speaking out.

Cojoe I’m glad you didnt select me cuz I wouldnt have accepted working for free. Transport Canada is also investigating Flair’s fatiguing scheds. 18 days of work and lowest paid pilots. Wow

[the_new_guy]

My friends tell me that Flair is not following the contract. Recently there was a lot of commotion about pilots not getting paid correctly and the ALPA reps deleted the internal chat group due to a lot of negativity within the pilot group. Apparently pilots are not paid according to the contract when it comes to multi day pairings where pilots have a layover. They only get the credit for day 1 and day 4 but day 2 and 3 (which involves a layover) are not paid. The ALPA reps have done nothing about it for the last couple months are pilots are speaking out.

Cojoe I’m glad you didnt select me cuz I wouldnt have accepted working for free. Transport Canada is also investigating Flair’s fatiguing scheds. 18 days of work and lowest paid pilots. Wow

I'm all for saying when shit is not right, and it isn't.

That said there was a pairing stretched 4 days in a bid package but that was rectified BUT you're right in saying there's a little bit of a dispute right now where management has a funny interpretation of a day of work.

Example: you're operating on the first day early morning ykf - yvr, start off day 0600lt (ykf) and they have you operate a red eye back that lands in ykf on the third day at 0530lt. So say September 1st to 3rd. It is very much so a 3 day pairing, and you should get 12 credits but you get 9.7 credits because they say it's less than 48 hours total. Which of it were defined that way in the contract (based on 24h periods) that would be ok. But it's not. The contract defines a day of work by calendar day from 0000 to 2359.

[TPP]

Sounds like you guys need to either vote in new leadership or hold your current union reps accountable.

My suspicion is your current reps are in bed with management if they are letting your company get away with this.

[TFTMB heavy]

My friends tell me that Flair is not following the contract. Recently there was a lot of commotion about pilots not getting paid correctly and the ALPA reps deleted the internal chat group due to a lot of negativity within the pilot group. Apparently pilots are not paid according to the contract when it comes to multi day pairings where pilots have a layover. They only get the credit for day 1 and day 4 but day 2 and 3 (which involves a layover) are not paid. The ALPA reps have done nothing about it for the last couple months are pilots are speaking out.

Cojoe I’m glad you didnt select me cuz I wouldnt have accepted working for free. Transport Canada is also investigating Flair’s fatiguing scheds. 18 days of work and lowest paid pilots. Wow

I'm all for saying when shit is not right, and it isn't.

That said there was a pairing stretched 4 days in a bid package but that was rectified BUT you're right in saying there's a little bit of a dispute right now where management has a funny interpretation of a day of work.

Example: you're operating on the first day early morning ykf - yvr, start off day 0600lt (ykf) and they have you operate a red eye back that lands in ykf on the third day at 0530lt. So say September 1st to 3rd. It is very much so a 3 day pairing, and you should get 12 credits but you get 9.7 credits because they say it's less than 48 hours total. Which of it were defined that way in the contract (based on 24h periods) that would be ok. But it's not. The contract defines a day of work by calendar day from 0000 to 2359.

You don't have a trip rig?

[the_new_guy]

My friends tell me that Flair is not following the contract. Recently there was a lot of commotion about pilots not getting paid correctly and the ALPA reps deleted the internal chat group due to a lot of negativity within the pilot group. Apparently pilots are not paid according to the contract when it comes to multi day pairings where pilots have a layover. They only get the credit for day 1 and day 4 but day 2 and 3 (which involves a layover) are not paid. The ALPA reps have done nothing about it for the last couple months are pilots are speaking out.

Cojoe I’m glad you didnt select me cuz I wouldnt have accepted working for free. Transport Canada is also investigating Flair’s fatiguing scheds. 18 days of work and lowest paid pilots. Wow

I'm all for saying when shit is not right, and it isn't.

That said there was a pairing stretched 4 days in a bid package but that was rectified BUT you're right in saying there's a little bit of a dispute right now where management has a funny interpretation of a day of work.

Example: you're operating on the first day early morning ykf - yvr, start off day 0600lt (ykf) and they have you operate a red eye back that lands in ykf on the third day at 0530lt. So say September 1st to 3rd. It is very much so a 3 day pairing, and you should get 12 credits but you get 9.7 credits because they say it's less than 48 hours total. Which of it were defined that way in the contract (based on 24h periods) that would be ok. But it's not. The contract defines a day of work by calendar day from 0000 to 2359.

You don't have a trip rig?

Minimum credits is 4 per day. The only definition for Day we have is calendar 0000-2359. There's no wording on multi day pairings, no wording based on periods (hours) of work that applies.

[TFTMB heavy]

I'm all for saying when shit is not right, and it isn't.

That said there was a pairing stretched 4 days in a bid package but that was rectified BUT you're right in saying there's a little bit of a dispute right now where management has a funny interpretation of a day of work.

Example: you're operating on the first day early morning ykf - yvr, start off day 0600lt (ykf) and they have you operate a red eye back that lands in ykf on the third day at 0530lt. So say September 1st to 3rd. It is very much so a 3 day pairing, and you should get 12 credits but you get 9.7 credits because they say it's less than 48 hours total. Which of it were defined that way in the contract (based on 24h periods) that would be ok. But it's not. The contract defines a day of work by calendar day from 0000 to 2359.

You don't have a trip rig?

Minimum credits is 4 per day. The only definition for Day we have is calendar 0000-2359. There's no wording on multi day pairings, no wording based on periods (hours) of work that applies.

Looks like the company is using a 1 in 6 trip rig. Has it always been that way or they just started doing that?

[co-joe]

...
Cojoe I’m glad you didnt select me cuz I wouldnt have accepted working for free. ...

I have no idea what this sentence means, but I'm happy that I live rent free in your head.

[the_new_guy]

You don't have a trip rig?

Minimum credits is 4 per day. The only definition for Day we have is calendar 0000-2359. There's no wording on multi day pairings, no wording based on periods (hours) of work that applies.

Looks like the company is using a 1 in 6 trip rig. Has it always been that way or they just started doing that?

It's a somewhat new thing at flair that we get layovers. So in that regard it's new. And if they use a 1/6 rig, that's just lovely but I'd like for them to point in the contract where that is agreed to.

The fact is they signed a contract, so did the pilots (it's unfortunate that it is a substandard one) and they're now having a jolly time with interpretations while our union is not moving on this. While I say this, I'd like to add that "interpretations" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here because there's nothing even resembling their take on this. And we're talking months of this and months of pilots reporting this issue. Our contract is available online and I'd very much like to see anyone finding a reference to trip rig or any reference to multiday pairings that even remotely approximate management's view on this.

I like flair, but if I could talk to managerial folks I'd very much like to tell them to get their heads out of their ass, what they're doing is costing us pilots slowly but surely. FOs and skippers alike.

But hey, let's not sell our tickets 5$ more than actual prices and pay the correct credits for our pilots. Instead, let's not pay them their dues, ask them not to drink to much water because that's where all the money goes and let's lose 4 cheap planes while we're at it.

If a pilot scews up, he's met by management in the next few days. If the Ceo fucks up, we lose planes. Except for a "heartfelt" apology, no firing.

That's all folks, business as usual. Way to make this a career airline.

[TFTMB heavy]

Minimum credits is 4 per day. The only definition for Day we have is calendar 0000-2359. There's no wording on multi day pairings, no wording based on periods (hours) of work that applies.

Looks like the company is using a 1 in 6 trip rig. Has it always been that way or they just started doing that?

It's a somewhat new thing at flair that we get layovers. So in that regard it's new. And if they use a 1/6 rig, that's just lovely but I'd like for them to point in the contract where that is agreed to.

The fact is they signed a contract, so did the pilots (it's unfortunate that it is a substandard one) and they're now having a jolly time with interpretations while our union is not moving on this. While I say this, I'd like to add that "interpretations" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here because there's nothing even resembling their take on this. And we're talking months of this and months of pilots reporting this issue. Our contract is available online and I'd very much like to see anyone finding a reference to trip rig or any reference to multiday pairings that even remotely approximate management's view on this.

I like flair, but if I could talk to managerial folks I'd very much like to tell them to get their heads out of their ass, what they're doing is costing us pilots slowly but surely. FOs and skippers alike.

But hey, let's not sell our tickets 5$ more than actual prices and pay the correct credits for our pilots. Instead, let's not pay them their dues, ask them not to drink to much water because that's where all the money goes and let's lose 4 cheap planes while we're at it.

If a pilot scews up, he's met by management in the next few days. If the Ceo fucks up, we lose planes. Except for a "heartfelt" apology, no firing.

That's all folks, business as usual. Way to make this a career airline.

I feel for you guys. I found your 2018-2021 CBA on line but the new one isn't showing up. In the old one the min 4 credits per day is clear.

[indieadventurer]

Here's the current one.

[TFTMB heavy]

Here's the current one.

Thanks!

[TFTMB heavy]

Minimum credits is 4 per day. The only definition for Day we have is calendar 0000-2359. There's no wording on multi day pairings, no wording based on periods (hours) of work that applies.

Looks like the company is using a 1 in 6 trip rig. Has it always been that way or they just started doing that?

It's a somewhat new thing at flair that we get layovers. So in that regard it's new. And if they use a 1/6 rig, that's just lovely but I'd like for them to point in the contract where that is agreed to.

The fact is they signed a contract, so did the pilots (it's unfortunate that it is a substandard one) and they're now having a jolly time with interpretations while our union is not moving on this. While I say this, I'd like to add that "interpretations" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here because there's nothing even resembling their take on this. And we're talking months of this and months of pilots reporting this issue. Our contract is available online and I'd very much like to see anyone finding a reference to trip rig or any reference to multiday pairings that even remotely approximate management's view on this.

I like flair, but if I could talk to managerial folks I'd very much like to tell them to get their heads out of their ass, what they're doing is costing us pilots slowly but surely. FOs and skippers alike.

But hey, let's not sell our tickets 5$ more than actual prices and pay the correct credits for our pilots. Instead, let's not pay them their dues, ask them not to drink to much water because that's where all the money goes and let's lose 4 cheap planes while we're at it.

If a pilot scews up, he's met by management in the next few days. If the Ceo fucks up, we lose planes. Except for a "heartfelt" apology, no firing.

That's all folks, business as usual. Way to make this a career airline.

21.4.2 A Pilot who reports to work shall be credited for any Day worked by the greater of:

a) A minimum of four (4.0) Credit Hours per Day, including Reserve;
b) Scheduled Flight Hours;
c) Actual Flight hours flown;
d) The calculated ratio of one (1) Credit Hour for every two (2) hours of Duty time in each Duty Period, excluding days involving Deadheading only.

There's no trip rig in that list. Even if there was a 1 in 6 rig the "greater of" would supersede it. Even your DH days are minimum 4 credits

Pretty clear explanation of how credits are paid. Too bad you have to fight for it.

[the_new_guy]

Looks like the company is using a 1 in 6 trip rig. Has it always been that way or they just started doing that?

It's a somewhat new thing at flair that we get layovers. So in that regard it's new. And if they use a 1/6 rig, that's just lovely but I'd like for them to point in the contract where that is agreed to.

The fact is they signed a contract, so did the pilots (it's unfortunate that it is a substandard one) and they're now having a jolly time with interpretations while our union is not moving on this. While I say this, I'd like to add that "interpretations" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here because there's nothing even resembling their take on this. And we're talking months of this and months of pilots reporting this issue. Our contract is available online and I'd very much like to see anyone finding a reference to trip rig or any reference to multiday pairings that even remotely approximate management's view on this.

I like flair, but if I could talk to managerial folks I'd very much like to tell them to get their heads out of their ass, what they're doing is costing us pilots slowly but surely. FOs and skippers alike.

But hey, let's not sell our tickets 5$ more than actual prices and pay the correct credits for our pilots. Instead, let's not pay them their dues, ask them not to drink to much water because that's where all the money goes and let's lose 4 cheap planes while we're at it.

If a pilot scews up, he's met by management in the next few days. If the Ceo fucks up, we lose planes. Except for a "heartfelt" apology, no firing.

That's all folks, business as usual. Way to make this a career airline.

21.4.2 A Pilot who reports to work shall be credited for any Day worked by the greater of:

a) A minimum of four (4.0) Credit Hours per Day, including Reserve;
b) Scheduled Flight Hours;
c) Actual Flight hours flown;
d) The calculated ratio of one (1) Credit Hour for every two (2) hours of Duty time in each Duty Period, excluding days involving Deadheading only.

There's no trip rig in that list. Even if there was a 1 in 6 rig the "greater of" would supersede it. Even your DH days are minimum 4 credits

Pretty clear explanation of how credits are paid. Too bad you have to fight for it.

Yes I thought it was pretty clear as well. Also if you look up the definition of a day it is pretty clear too.

But hey, I guess reading is not everyone's strength.

Maybe the next MEC will do something about it, who knows. In the meantime I'd like to encourage people that apply for the job to read up the current contract, and know that on top of being substantially less in total comp, protection and valuable sched articles, management is not honouring their part 100%.

You should also consider new policies implemented left and right without consultation with MEC or membership and out of CA.

At this stage, I can't say I'd recommend flair to a friend looking for work on a jet. It's too bad because I know it could be so much better. It just might start to be after the votes are counted. There's hope yet.

[Apestogetherstrong]

Maybe @tbalyx could respond on this matter

[Jumbo744]

My friends tell me that Flair is not following the contract. Recently there was a lot of commotion about pilots not getting paid correctly and the ALPA reps deleted the internal chat group due to a lot of negativity within the pilot group. Apparently pilots are not paid according to the contract when it comes to multi day pairings where pilots have a layover. They only get the credit for day 1 and day 4 but day 2 and 3 (which involves a layover) are not paid. The ALPA reps have done nothing about it for the last couple months are pilots are speaking out.

Cojoe I’m glad you didnt select me cuz I wouldnt have accepted working for free. Transport Canada is also investigating Flair’s fatiguing scheds. 18 days of work and lowest paid pilots. Wow

So many lies it what you just wrote, but whatever. I am just curious, you come to avcanada and post about a subject "a friend" told you about. Don't you have anything better to do, like having a life? a girlfriend? You sound so bitter, I am sure the psychometric and personality tests flagged your personality disorder and now you're offended you didn't get the job.

Pilot group chats will always be what they are, no matter the company, just a bunch of people complaining because they are bored.

18 days of work? max I have worked was 14 and that included a lot of overtime. if anyone works 18 days a month at Flair, it's because they chose to work on GDOs.

Why do you even care if you don't work at Flair?

Life is pretty sweet at Flair for me anyways

[330heavy]

My friends tell me that Flair is not following the contract. Recently there was a lot of commotion about pilots not getting paid correctly and the ALPA reps deleted the internal chat group due to a lot of negativity within the pilot group. Apparently pilots are not paid according to the contract when it comes to multi day pairings where pilots have a layover. They only get the credit for day 1 and day 4 but day 2 and 3 (which involves a layover) are not paid. The ALPA reps have done nothing about it for the last couple months are pilots are speaking out.

Cojoe I’m glad you didnt select me cuz I wouldnt have accepted working for free. Transport Canada is also investigating Flair’s fatiguing scheds. 18 days of work and lowest paid pilots. Wow

So many lies it what you just wrote, but whatever. I am just curious, you come to avcanada and post about a subject "a friend" told you about. Don't you have anything better to do, like having a life? a girlfriend? You sound so bitter, I am sure the psychometric and personality tests flagged your personality disorder and now you're offended you didn't get the job.

Pilot group chats will always be what they are, no matter the company, just a bunch of people complaining because they are bored.

18 days of work? max I have worked was 14 and that included a lot of overtime. if anyone works 18 days a month at Flair, it's because they chose to work on GDOs.

Why do you even care if you don't work at Flair?

Life is pretty sweet at Flair for me anyways

Them/they is a bitter troll, trolling at most of the companies that wouldn't hire them/they, and we can see why. Ignore the ape in the room.

[вести70]

My friends tell me that Flair is not following the contract. Recently there was a lot of commotion about pilots not getting paid correctly and the ALPA reps deleted the internal chat group due to a lot of negativity within the pilot group. Apparently pilots are not paid according to the contract when it comes to multi day pairings where pilots have a layover. They only get the credit for day 1 and day 4 but day 2 and 3 (which involves a layover) are not paid. The ALPA reps have done nothing about it for the last couple months are pilots are speaking out.

Cojoe I’m glad you didnt select me cuz I wouldnt have accepted working for free. Transport Canada is also investigating Flair’s fatiguing scheds. 18 days of work and lowest paid pilots. Wow

Sadly it's true. there is 4 day and 5 day pairings with the layovers spanning over 24 hours without pay. It started with red eyes that spanned over 3 and you'd get 2 days pay and both union and company have been arguing for the past year on it. Union had a huge fallout with its group and the entire group is stepping down, i think just one guy that hasnt gotten the hint is running again. Mean while company group chat was shut down due to too much friction between pilots. If it all gets fixed is anyone's guess since Any new mec will need time to get settled and company loves to exploit the lower experience.

You can have a 18 day month with 65 to 72 credits and could go from OT to just min cred quite easily. With the mass exodus of pilots, the 17 to 18days a month normal block and the lack of future plans for planes.. and everything else I hear often doesn't make think flair a good long term plan. For the seniors they have no choice, lots are close to retiremnt as expats and some even have good schedules of 14 days a month. But there are always senior pilots in every company that are insulated from the problems or management making comments on avcanada as damage control.

As the ceo said with loads of 90%+ they are losing lots
of money, yxx and yow closing. Future plans of 4 planes in 2024 dropped to 2 then to 1 then zero in just a couple weeks and bills pilling up again flair is doing its best to maintain what they have.

Will flair fail? Maybe.. but the consensus right now is that they are trying their best to clean their books to go public in hope of paying off the 300 million at 18% to 777 and merging with lynx.(but that's a water cooler talk only).

Lots of things have improved and just as many gone downhill over the last 2 years.

My recommendation is to look for a bit more stability when choosing an airline. But really Who knows for sure . Goodluck everyone.

[Apestogetherstrong]

My friends tell me that Flair is not following the contract. Recently there was a lot of commotion about pilots not getting paid correctly and the ALPA reps deleted the internal chat group due to a lot of negativity within the pilot group. Apparently pilots are not paid according to the contract when it comes to multi day pairings where pilots have a layover. They only get the credit for day 1 and day 4 but day 2 and 3 (which involves a layover) are not paid. The ALPA reps have done nothing about it for the last couple months are pilots are speaking out.

Cojoe I’m glad you didnt select me cuz I wouldnt have accepted working for free. Transport Canada is also investigating Flair’s fatiguing scheds. 18 days of work and lowest paid pilots. Wow

Sadly it's true. there is 4 day and 5 day pairings with the layovers spanning over 24 hours without pay. It started with red eyes that spanned over 3 and you'd get 2 days pay and both union and company have been arguing for the past year on it. Union had a huge fallout with its group and the entire group is stepping down, i think just one guy that hasnt gotten the hint is running again. Mean while company group chat was shut down due to too much friction between pilots. If it all gets fixed is anyone's guess since Any new mec will need time to get settled and company loves to exploit the lower experience.

You can have a 18 day month with 65 to 72 credits and could go from OT to just min cred quite easily. With the mass exodus of pilots, the 17 to 18days a month normal block and the lack of future plans for planes.. and everything else I hear often doesn't make think flair a good long term plan. For the seniors they have no choice, lots are close to retiremnt as expats and some even have good schedules of 14 days a month. But there are always senior pilots in every company that are insulated from the problems or management making comments on avcanada as damage control.

As the ceo said with loads of 90%+ they are losing lots
of money, yxx and yow closing. Future plans of 4 planes in 2024 dropped to 2 then to 1 then zero in just a couple weeks and bills pilling up again flair is doing its best to maintain what they have.

Will flair fail? Maybe.. but the consensus right now is that they are trying their best to clean their books to go public in hope of paying off the 300 million at 18% to 777 and merging with lynx.(but that's a water cooler talk only).

Lots of things have improved and just as many gone downhill over the last 2 years.

My recommendation is to look for a bit more stability when choosing an airline. But really Who knows for sure . Goodluck everyone.

Thanks for this. This shows jumbo744 is a company guy and will lie about WAWCONS at Flair. Will wait for tbaylx to respond!

[Jumbo744]

Thanks for this. This shows jumbo744 is a company guy and will lie about WAWCONS at Flair. Will wait for tbaylx to respond!

Oh noooo, a company guy oh noooo, what an insult I know your type, that's you favourite insult. like highschool kids

I am just a pilot who doesn't live a toxic life, when I am not happy somewhere, I just leave and don't come blaming the whole world on the internet. So far, Flair has been an amazing job for me, I'd be happy to compare how many hours I've worked Versus how much I've made. I think this will be hard to beat. The day Flair doesn't suit me anymore, guess what? I won't insult anyone, I won't blame anyone, I'll just find another job. Life is amazing.

[Apestogetherstrong]

Thanks for this. This shows jumbo744 is a company guy and will lie about WAWCONS at Flair. Will wait for tbaylx to respond!

Oh noooo, a company guy oh noooo, what an insult I know your type, that's you favourite insult. like highschool kids

I am just a pilot who doesn't live a toxic life, when I am not happy somewhere, I just leave and don't come blaming the whole world on the internet. So far, Flair has been an amazing job for me, I'd be happy to compare how many hours I've worked Versus how much I've made. I think this will be hard to beat. The day Flair doesn't suit me anymore, guess what? I won't insult anyone, I won't blame anyone, I'll just find another job. Life is amazing.

If everything was so great at Flair, why are your pilots leaving to Porter?

[GRK2]

The CFO's resignation IS likely a red flag. Porter lost a major lawsuit earlier this year and is on the hook to pay JP Morgan about $130 million. Porter has also been doing sale/leasebacks on their Q400s to raise cash. The fact that Porter hired Seabury out of NYC as a placement agent for E190 sale/leasebacks suggests leasing companies are not competing for Porter's business. Aircraft leasing rates have increased significantly over the last couple years, and with Porter's (up to) $270 million LEEFF facility at increasingly unfavourable interest rates (in each subsequent year), unanticipated increases in pilot costs, and other unforeseen costs associated with rapid expansion, all these factors are putting considerable financial pressure on Porter. The CFO resigned from Porter to work at Chartwell Retirement Residences.
---------- ADS -----------

This is from the Porter thread, Apeman, you tell me... Looks to me like they might have a pretty big problem raising the funds for paying off that suit. So will you now say that Porter is a bad place to work? The few that left were likely chasing a buck and wanted it now. It's a slippery slope believing what you want to by listening to your buddy, (who has so far given you a ton of bad information.) The facts are never what you post, although you do manage to get close occasionally, but never actually accurate. I certainly understand the concern over some CBA issues that a number of Flair pilots have, many pilot has those same concerns at other airlines. Just to be clear, those issues don't get fixed with the snap of the fingers. I wish they could, but the fact is, they don't. It takes time to even organize a meeting where the parties are available and the problems can be addressed. The change takes time.

Stop poking the bear is my advice, it can be a painful experience when the bear bites back.

[Apestogetherstrong]

The CFO's resignation IS likely a red flag. Porter lost a major lawsuit earlier this year and is on the hook to pay JP Morgan about $130 million. Porter has also been doing sale/leasebacks on their Q400s to raise cash. The fact that Porter hired Seabury out of NYC as a placement agent for E190 sale/leasebacks suggests leasing companies are not competing for Porter's business. Aircraft leasing rates have increased significantly over the last couple years, and with Porter's (up to) $270 million LEEFF facility at increasingly unfavourable interest rates (in each subsequent year), unanticipated increases in pilot costs, and other unforeseen costs associated with rapid expansion, all these factors are putting considerable financial pressure on Porter. The CFO resigned from Porter to work at Chartwell Retirement Residences.
---------- ADS -----------

This is from the Porter thread, Apeman, you tell me... Looks to me like they might have a pretty big problem raising the funds for paying off that suit. So will you now say that Porter is a bad place to work? The few that left were likely chasing a buck and wanted it now. It's a slippery slope believing what you want to by listening to your buddy, (who has so far given you a ton of bad information.) The facts are never what you post, although you do manage to get close occasionally, but never actually accurate. I certainly understand the concern over some CBA issues that a number of Flair pilots have, many pilot has those same concerns at other airlines. Just to be clear, those issues don't get fixed with the snap of the fingers. I wish they could, but the fact is, they don't. It takes time to even organize a meeting where the parties are available and the problems can be addressed. The change takes time.

Stop poking the bear is my advice, it can be a painful experience when the bear bites back.

Ape can fight the bear. Bring it on!

That’s all I’m saying. You guys are not paying pilots properly and it needs to be addressed. Also posting this info so pilots can make the right decision when choosing where to work. You say porter has financial problems? Well Porter pilots can wipe their tears with the fat paycheck they get. Cant say the same about Flair pilots.

[JakeLRS]

Ape can fight the bear. Bring it on!

That’s all I’m saying. You guys are not paying pilots properly and it needs to be addressed. Also posting this info so pilots can make the right decision when choosing where to work. You say porter has financial problems? Well Porter pilots can wipe their tears with the fat paycheck they get. Cant say the same about Flair pilots.

Heh, I like how a few short months ago everyone was praising Flair pilots for setting the bar higher. Now WS and Porter both raised the bar even further and all of the sudden Flair is the bad guy.

[Tbayer2021]

Ape can fight the bear. Bring it on!

That’s all I’m saying. You guys are not paying pilots properly and it needs to be addressed. Also posting this info so pilots can make the right decision when choosing where to work. You say porter has financial problems? Well Porter pilots can wipe their tears with the fat paycheck they get. Cant say the same about Flair pilots.

Heh, I like how a few short months ago everyone was praising Flair pilots for setting the bar higher. Now WS and Porter both raised the bar even further and all of the sudden Flair is the bad guy.

I don't know where you're getting your information from but most here voiced their disapproval of Flair pilots for voting in a garbage contract. Unless you're only reading tbaylx and his side kick co-joe's comments.

[Jumbo744]

If everything was so great at Flair, why are your pilots leaving to Porter?

are you joking? you think this applies only to Flair? there is so much movement between companies right now, too many options for pilots. They jump around until they find a good fit. I work for a smaller Flair base and I only know 3 pilots that have left since the beginning of the year. And I can see why Porter would be a good alternative, especially for Captains they can go as DEC and make good money. Where else do you want them to go ? FO at AC, Transat, Westjet, Jazz, Cargojet? give me a break, they will make half what they make right now.

Rumors inside the company is that we can expect a good raise soon. I repeat, RUMORS.

By the way, you mind telling us who you work for? I am so curious to know why you are so concerned about what is going on at Flair