Sky regional 2.0

[rudder]

I see Jazz is having to cover what should be PAL flying. What a stroke of genius that was... Who ever says AC has a plan, is completely out to lunch. The only plan AC has is "don't pay pilots appropriately" and shrink to accomplish that goal.

And PAL is having to cancel their own flying, in an attempt to cover the AC flying... what a bargain for them.

The short sighted thinking on display continues to be impressive!

Maybe PAL is GGN 2.0?

[Inverted2]

Unless you are from the Eastern Bloc provinces and don’t want to commute to the big smoke, why would you work for PAL? The pay is not good at all and while I know everyone loves to bash Jazz, we have a very good contract (excluding pay).

[runway29]

I see Jazz is having to cover what should be PAL flying. What a stroke of genius that was... Who ever says AC has a plan, is completely out to lunch. The only plan AC has is "don't pay pilots appropriately" and shrink to accomplish that goal.

And PAL is having to cancel their own flying, in an attempt to cover the AC flying... what a bargain for them.

The short sighted thinking on display continues to be impressive!

Maybe PAL is GGN 2.0?

Not quite. PAL's bread and butter are mining charter flights and they have had a presence in Northern Labrador & Quebec for decades now. In addition, the AC agreement only covers flights out of Halifax and does not have any relation to the sked flights already run within NFLD.

[NovaBoy]

From what I’ve heard PAL turned down AC’s first offer. So it’s not going to the lowest bidder. Who else has Q400’s that can do this flying other than JAZZ. Don’t think AC had a lot of options, with regards to having another outfit pick up the flying.
PAL isn’t in this to lose money, that’s for sure.

[Rowdy]

So it’s not going to the lowest bidder.

PAL management tried to under cut jazz.. That would indeed make them the lowest bidder.

[CaptDukeNukem]

From what I’ve heard PAL turned down AC’s first offer. So it’s not going to the lowest bidder. Who else has Q400’s that can do this flying other than JAZZ. Don’t think AC had a lot of options, with regards to having another outfit pick up the flying.
PAL isn’t in this to lose money, that’s for sure.

Porter??

Jk. I don’t think that would ever happen.

[truedude]

So it’s not going to the lowest bidder.

PAL management tried to under cut jazz.. That would indeed make them the lowest bidder.

Everything about the PAL thing stinks. And what I enjoy the most, is that PAL knowingly entered into and agreement while AC was violating its agreement with Jazz. Why would you want to do business with a company that has no respect for contracts and just does what it wants?

[cggnl]

CMA will have Q4s and crews trained within a year. PAL = East. CMA = West. JZA = Central.
Full circle, mission complete by the mothership.
AKA back where it all started approx 25 years ago having multiple carriers doing regional lift for AC.

[truedude]

CMA will have Q4s and crews trained within a year. PAL = East. CMA = West. JZA = Central.
Full circle, mission complete by the mothership.
AKA back where it all started approx 25 years ago having multiple carriers doing regional lift for AC.

CMA can't crew anything at the moment... it is laughable to think they will crew something for AC. Even PAL can't cover the flying for AC they are under contract to do.

[QKZXKV]

The point is (as Truedude keeps pointing out) is that tier of operator, regardless of who it is, cannot staff their roster at all. Jazz, CMA, PAL, Encore, Pasco ... Porter is grabbing a whack load of QUALIFIED pilots and the rest are skipping that tier of operator all together. There's no way any of the mentioned ones will properly displace Jazz for regional flying. The A220 will take care of that and Jazz will be smaller than ever as AC's regional. The PAL experiment has failed before it's really even started.

I capitalized "qualified" because that's still where this is... No ATPL candidates. Most have figured things out and are sticking put at their higher paying 703/04s and not bothering with regionals anymore. Even the college folks are starting to wise up and notice that it's expensive to work towards an ATPL at a low paying 705 regional when they can fly at a smaller operator, get paid to log the hours and make more money after a certain point.

[rudder]

The point is (as Truedude keeps pointing out) is that tier of operator, regardless of who it is, cannot staff their roster at all. Jazz, CMA, PAL, Encore, Pasco ... Porter is grabbing a whack load of QUALIFIED pilots and the rest are skipping that tier of operator all together. There's no way any of the mentioned ones will properly displace Jazz for regional flying. The A220 will take care of that and Jazz will be smaller than ever as AC's regional. The PAL experiment has failed before it's really even started.

I capitalized "qualified" because that's still where this is... No ATPL candidates. Most have figured things out and are sticking put at their higher paying 703/04s and not bothering with regionals anymore. Even the college folks are starting to wise up and notice that it's expensive to work towards an ATPL at a low paying 705 regional when they can fly at a smaller operator, get paid to log the hours and make more money after a certain point.

One could argue that even staffing 80 fins will be an ongoing challenge for Jazz.

The windup of the AC hiring cycle in 2025 will help. But that will also make going to Jazz less attractive (just as the 30% flow provision for new-hires has already done).

Maybe sometime in 2024/2025 there will be either liquidation or consolidation in the industry. Absent that, there are not enough pilots in Canada to fill operators estimated needs.

AC is already on Plan B. Maybe they will require a Plan C.

[truedude]

The point is (as Truedude keeps pointing out) is that tier of operator, regardless of who it is, cannot staff their roster at all. Jazz, CMA, PAL, Encore, Pasco ... Porter is grabbing a whack load of QUALIFIED pilots and the rest are skipping that tier of operator all together. There's no way any of the mentioned ones will properly displace Jazz for regional flying. The A220 will take care of that and Jazz will be smaller than ever as AC's regional. The PAL experiment has failed before it's really even started.

I capitalized "qualified" because that's still where this is... No ATPL candidates. Most have figured things out and are sticking put at their higher paying 703/04s and not bothering with regionals anymore. Even the college folks are starting to wise up and notice that it's expensive to work towards an ATPL at a low paying 705 regional when they can fly at a smaller operator, get paid to log the hours and make more money after a certain point.

One could argue that even staffing 80 fins will be an ongoing challenge for Jazz.

The windup of the AC hiring cycle in 2025 will help. But that will also make going to Jazz less attractive (just as the 30% flow provision for new-hires has already done).

Maybe sometime in 2024/2025 there will be either liquidation or consolidation in the industry. Absent that, there are not enough pilots in Canada to fill operators estimated needs.

AC is already on Plan B. Maybe they will require a Plan C.

I think they require a new CEO more than anything else.

[QKZXKV]

The point is (as Truedude keeps pointing out) is that tier of operator, regardless of who it is, cannot staff their roster at all. Jazz, CMA, PAL, Encore, Pasco ... Porter is grabbing a whack load of QUALIFIED pilots and the rest are skipping that tier of operator all together. There's no way any of the mentioned ones will properly displace Jazz for regional flying. The A220 will take care of that and Jazz will be smaller than ever as AC's regional. The PAL experiment has failed before it's really even started.

I capitalized "qualified" because that's still where this is... No ATPL candidates. Most have figured things out and are sticking put at their higher paying 703/04s and not bothering with regionals anymore. Even the college folks are starting to wise up and notice that it's expensive to work towards an ATPL at a low paying 705 regional when they can fly at a smaller operator, get paid to log the hours and make more money after a certain point.

One could argue that even staffing 80 fins will be an ongoing challenge for Jazz.

The windup of the AC hiring cycle in 2025 will help. But that will also make going to Jazz less attractive (just as the 30% flow provision for new-hires has already done).

Maybe sometime in 2024/2025 there will be either liquidation or consolidation in the industry. Absent that, there are not enough pilots in Canada to fill operators estimated needs.

AC is already on Plan B. Maybe they will require a Plan C.

You're not wrong by any stretch!

[daedalusx]

The pay is not good at all and while I know everyone loves to bash Jazz, we have a very good contract (excluding pay).

I can’t afford mortgage or rent but thank God the massages are free.

[Happyflyer78]

The point is (as Truedude keeps pointing out) is that tier of operator, regardless of who it is, cannot staff their roster at all. Jazz, CMA, PAL, Encore, Pasco ... Porter is grabbing a whack load of QUALIFIED pilots and the rest are skipping that tier of operator all together. There's no way any of the mentioned ones will properly displace Jazz for regional flying. The A220 will take care of that and Jazz will be smaller than ever as AC's regional. The PAL experiment has failed before it's really even started.

I capitalized "qualified" because that's still where this is... No ATPL candidates. Most have figured things out and are sticking put at their higher paying 703/04s and not bothering with regionals anymore. Even the college folks are starting to wise up and notice that it's expensive to work towards an ATPL at a low paying 705 regional when they can fly at a smaller operator, get paid to log the hours and make more money after a certain point.

What does “qualified” candidates mean for 705 ops HR departments? Applying at most regionals in Canada with an ATPL and extensive King Air Captain time I’m not having the interest from operators as I thought I would in a time period that there’s suppose to be crew shortages.

[canadian_aviator_4]

The pay is not good at all and while I know everyone loves to bash Jazz, we have a very good contract (excluding pay).

I can’t afford mortgage or rent but thank God the massages are free.

What’s the point of a contract if you can barely make ends meet?

[QKZXKV]

The point is (as Truedude keeps pointing out) is that tier of operator, regardless of who it is, cannot staff their roster at all. Jazz, CMA, PAL, Encore, Pasco ... Porter is grabbing a whack load of QUALIFIED pilots and the rest are skipping that tier of operator all together. There's no way any of the mentioned ones will properly displace Jazz for regional flying. The A220 will take care of that and Jazz will be smaller than ever as AC's regional. The PAL experiment has failed before it's really even started.

I capitalized "qualified" because that's still where this is... No ATPL candidates. Most have figured things out and are sticking put at their higher paying 703/04s and not bothering with regionals anymore. Even the college folks are starting to wise up and notice that it's expensive to work towards an ATPL at a low paying 705 regional when they can fly at a smaller operator, get paid to log the hours and make more money after a certain point.

What does “qualified” candidates mean for 705 ops HR departments? Applying at most regionals in Canada with an ATPL and extensive King Air Captain time I’m not having the interest from operators as I thought I would in a time period that there’s suppose to be crew shortages.

They do want captain candidates and you should be in that based on your credentials. I don't understand HR departments quite frankly.

[flhfxd]

Stop kidding yourselves...PAL's AC contract flying is a small slice of that companies overall pie...kind of like where JAZZ seems to be fitting into the Chorus group of companies.

[truedude]

Stop kidding yourselves...PAL's AC contract flying is a small slice of that companies overall pie...kind of like where JAZZ seems to be fitting into the Chorus group of companies.

Such a small piece of the pie, yet they can't even manage to do what little they should be doing. Also heard they have been cutting their own routes in an effort to cover that small piece... though that is just a rumor...

[daedalusx]

Stop kidding yourselves...PAL's AC contract flying is a small slice of that companies overall pie...kind of like where JAZZ seems to be fitting into the Chorus group of companies.

Also heard they have been cutting their own routes in an effort to cover that small piece... though that is just a rumor...

They are.
Not just a rumor.

[Happyflyer78]

The point is (as Truedude keeps pointing out) is that tier of operator, regardless of who it is, cannot staff their roster at all. Jazz, CMA, PAL, Encore, Pasco ... Porter is grabbing a whack load of QUALIFIED pilots and the rest are skipping that tier of operator all together. There's no way any of the mentioned ones will properly displace Jazz for regional flying. The A220 will take care of that and Jazz will be smaller than ever as AC's regional. The PAL experiment has failed before it's really even started.

I capitalized "qualified" because that's still where this is... No ATPL candidates. Most have figured things out and are sticking put at their higher paying 703/04s and not bothering with regionals anymore. Even the college folks are starting to wise up and notice that it's expensive to work towards an ATPL at a low paying 705 regional when they can fly at a smaller operator, get paid to log the hours and make more money after a certain point.

What does “qualified” candidates mean for 705 ops HR departments? Applying at most regionals in Canada with an ATPL and extensive King Air Captain time I’m not having the interest from operators as I thought I would in a time period that there’s suppose to be crew shortages.

They do want captain candidates and you should be in that based on your credentials. I don't understand HR departments quite frankly.

A friend a couple years ago was asked by a jazz HR rep to upload their saron and samra results. After uploading the jazz rep advised they were expired, and to update application once either they had valid saron/samra or iatra exams. So my friend went to another carrier where they accepted their ATPL license without having to have the exams written recently. Maybe that’s why I wasn’t called as of yet.

[CaptDukeNukem]

What does “qualified” candidates mean for 705 ops HR departments? Applying at most regionals in Canada with an ATPL and extensive King Air Captain time I’m not having the interest from operators as I thought I would in a time period that there’s suppose to be crew shortages.

They do want captain candidates and you should be in that based on your credentials. I don't understand HR departments quite frankly.

A friend a couple years ago was asked by a jazz HR rep to upload their saron and samra results. After uploading the jazz rep advised they were expired, and to update application once either they had valid saron/samra or iatra exams. So my friend went to another carrier where they accepted their ATPL license without having to have the exams written recently. Maybe that’s why I wasn’t called as of yet.

That’s totally what it is. Your deduction skills are impeccable

[cdnavater]

What does “qualified” candidates mean for 705 ops HR departments? Applying at most regionals in Canada with an ATPL and extensive King Air Captain time I’m not having the interest from operators as I thought I would in a time period that there’s suppose to be crew shortages.

They do want captain candidates and you should be in that based on your credentials. I don't understand HR departments quite frankly.

A friend a couple years ago was asked by a jazz HR rep to upload their saron and samra results. After uploading the jazz rep advised they were expired, and to update application once either they had valid saron/samra or iatra exams. So my friend went to another carrier where they accepted their ATPL license without having to have the exams written recently. Maybe that’s why I wasn’t called as of yet.

I’m sorry but this sounds like complete bs, you either have an ATPL or you don’t! If, you have written the exams but are awaiting the total time or another parameter to be met, then the exams used to expire, I can’t find the reference right now, if they were short the requirements they could have been past that date.
Maybe your friend was in that category but either way, many, MANY pilots have been hired without an ATPL, they only need to “prove” an ATPL for an upgrade

[Happyflyer78]

They do want captain candidates and you should be in that based on your credentials. I don't understand HR departments quite frankly.

A friend a couple years ago was asked by a jazz HR rep to upload their saron and samra results. After uploading the jazz rep advised they were expired, and to update application once either they had valid saron/samra or iatra exams. So my friend went to another carrier where they accepted their ATPL license without having to have the exams written recently. Maybe that’s why I wasn’t called as of yet.

I’m sorry but this sounds like complete bs, you either have an ATPL or you don’t! If, you have written the exams but are awaiting the total time or another parameter to be met, then the exams used to expire, I can’t find the reference right now, if they were short the requirements they could have been past that date.
Maybe your friend was in that category but either way, many, MANY pilots have been hired without an ATPL, they only need to “prove” an ATPL for an upgrade

Not BS. My friend had an ATPL. My reply was to a member who said they didn’t understand HR at times and I gave an example of not understanding HR at times.

[yytfo]

Stop kidding yourselves...PAL's AC contract flying is a small slice of that companies overall pie...kind of like where JAZZ seems to be fitting into the Chorus group of companies.

Also heard they have been cutting their own routes in an effort to cover that small piece... though that is just a rumor...

They are.
Not just a rumor.

What routes have been cut, exactly?