New Payscale?

[capt_Z]

...
But to be frank, I don't care one bit about a higher mmg. I'd much rather have 75 mmg instead of 85, but being paid a decent amount for those hours. It opens you up to more overtime if you so choose, it also means you're likely to work less days in a given month, which makes a difference for anyone who's not top 20% seniority.

...

The higher MMG also benefits people in training who aren't flying at all. Lots of US carriers by comparison have MMG's around 60 hours during training, Flair pays 85 hours whether you are flying a full line or not. It also benefits the bottom end of seniority, most of whom are on reserve, when 18 days x 4 hour min credit is only 72 hours, but you get paid for 85. Even the people doing 4 leg days, lots of which is min credit are getting paid for more hours than they work pretty consistently.

The other changes to the CBA are a lot more responsible for the loss of OT this year over last. I really miss the "open time" flying feature in NOC, the company says it didn't protect all the CARs and allowed some violations but I used the poop out of it last year and it never allowed me a violation. I believe the issue was the OT hoars were able to timex by the end of November and take all of December off, and the company couldn't make up the staffing shortfall.

Whatever the case, I agree with the rest of your assessments, Flair will have to step up pay, benefits (like the pension), and working conditions if we are to grow, and things like years of service pay when switching seats will become well worth fighting for.

I get where you're coming from, I believe I can make my argument clearer.

Take year 1 Captain

Flair: 147$/h
Porter: 190$/h

At 85 mmg we're currently looking at 12.5k monthly, where as if we were on the same level as porter hourly wage wise(could be westjet or AC but let's say porter) and "only" had 75 mmg, that would work out to 14.25k monthly.

Junior pilots would still work the same number of days every month, but would make more. Training pilots working the sim or the line would also look at higher numbers working the same number of days or just about.

And I feel like I can't stress this enough, this is comparing a 737 payscale to what is essentially a big regional carrier with 130 pax.

We can agree to disagree I'm not one to pick a fight over a forum, but that is my point about the mmg.

Otherwise like I said, the rest of the benefits are also on the down side when comparing but you also acknowledge it so that's something we agree on!

Safe flying

What's the First year FO PAY?

[the_new_guy]

The higher MMG also benefits people in training who aren't flying at all. Lots of US carriers by comparison have MMG's around 60 hours during training, Flair pays 85 hours whether you are flying a full line or not. It also benefits the bottom end of seniority, most of whom are on reserve, when 18 days x 4 hour min credit is only 72 hours, but you get paid for 85. Even the people doing 4 leg days, lots of which is min credit are getting paid for more hours than they work pretty consistently.

The other changes to the CBA are a lot more responsible for the loss of OT this year over last. I really miss the "open time" flying feature in NOC, the company says it didn't protect all the CARs and allowed some violations but I used the poop out of it last year and it never allowed me a violation. I believe the issue was the OT hoars were able to timex by the end of November and take all of December off, and the company couldn't make up the staffing shortfall.

Whatever the case, I agree with the rest of your assessments, Flair will have to step up pay, benefits (like the pension), and working conditions if we are to grow, and things like years of service pay when switching seats will become well worth fighting for.

I get where you're coming from, I believe I can make my argument clearer.

Take year 1 Captain

Flair: 147$/h
Porter: 190$/h

At 85 mmg we're currently looking at 12.5k monthly, where as if we were on the same level as porter hourly wage wise(could be westjet or AC but let's say porter) and "only" had 75 mmg, that would work out to 14.25k monthly.

Junior pilots would still work the same number of days every month, but would make more. Training pilots working the sim or the line would also look at higher numbers working the same number of days or just about.

And I feel like I can't stress this enough, this is comparing a 737 payscale to what is essentially a big regional carrier with 130 pax.

We can agree to disagree I'm not one to pick a fight over a forum, but that is my point about the mmg.

Otherwise like I said, the rest of the benefits are also on the down side when comparing but you also acknowledge it so that's something we agree on!

Safe flying

What's the First year FO PAY?

72/h

[flyinhigh]

Porter not working out for you, looking at bailing already? Or did you actually turn it down in hopes for the E2?

[Dias]

Why are they cutting Vancouver to Montreal? You'd think that would be a bread and butter route.

[the_new_guy]

Why are they cutting Vancouver to Montreal? You'd think that would be a bread and butter route.

Sending 2 planes down under and focusing the majority of this winter's flying to sunny destinations means they had to make decisions I'm guessing. Can't really make sense of that decision myself, but you don't choose to loose money so there has to be a good reason.

Also, yvr yul flights are turns and during the winter the credits planned for the flight are 10h40min. Pretty long day already and yul this winter is only going to get worse, from an already pretty bad situation. Meaning gate availability, traffic, general otp for the airport. Add winter weather and that turn you want to operate is a hard thing to pull on good days.

Just guessing, but that is the most sense I can make of it.

[apetogetherstrong]

When will the shit pay be improved? How can anyone work at a low cost carrier for such garbage money?

[Apestogetherstrong]

When will the shit pay be improved? How can anyone work at a low cost carrier for such garbage money?

You copied my username. I like it!

[CaptDukeNukem]

When will the shit pay be improved? How can anyone work at a low cost carrier for such garbage money?

You copied my username. I like it!

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

[Gameon]

I think this thread warrants re-visiting.

Resignation rate continues abound with no contract for 2 more long years. How many pilots is Flair management willing to lose?
You would think a match to Porter would do wonders and greatly increase morale but nothing yet.

[CaptDukeNukem]

I think this thread warrants re-visiting.

Resignation rate continues abound with no contract for 2 more long years. How many pilots is Flair management willing to lose?
You would think a match to Porter would do wonders and greatly increase morale but nothing yet.

I hope they match porter’s rates. Just means Porter’s goes up again next year.

[the_new_guy]

It looks like crew availability is a problem for sure now. There's still heavy bases in yvr and yyc which are overstaffed, but that's basically the extent of it.

There's ykf pilots operating yyz pairings all month now and December is going to be the same.

There's a need to attract more pilots, and there's only one way to do that. The company needs to get serious and revise heavily the compensation package offered. There's no other way to better your pilot retention and to attract more.

We can also talk about lifestyle points in the contract, but at least the numbers have to go way up and asap.

[Smilin' Jack]

I just spoke with some VERY senior training Captains. I was shocked to find out that some of the top seniority pilots are looking to move on very shortly.

[compilot]

A pay raise is needed immediately to help with retention, but but would top pay be enough to compensate for the risk?

[the_new_guy]

A pay raise is needed immediately to help with retention, but but would top pay be enough to compensate for the risk?

If the risk is associated with pilot retention and lack of crew therefore inability to fly your plane efficiently and get high utilization, I'd say it's a step in the right direction for sure. Just my opinion

[ready]

I just spoke with some VERY senior training Captains. I was shocked to find out that some of the top seniority pilots are looking to move on very shortly.

Sounds like great news for the junior crew… always good to have a few senior people move on and keep the seniority list moving. When are they leaving?

[Jumbo744]

I just spoke with some VERY senior training Captains. I was shocked to find out that some of the top seniority pilots are looking to move on very shortly.

Who gives a F$%#