777 Funded Flair Using Insurance Customers' Deposits

[SPR]

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/mystery- ... 07735.html

New details show that the obscure Miami firm snapping up global sports teams used a $1.5 billion pot of customers’ cash at an insurance company it controls to do so.

Financial documents reviewed by Semafor reveal that 777 Partners used policyholders’ money to buy European soccer clubs, invest in a South American streamer, launch a payday lender and a budget Canadian airline, and make dozens of other riskier bets.

[DanWEC]

Genius really. 777 is making cash hand over fist with that structure. Makes me think.

My question is, in the US is there not backing regulation with insurance that you need a certain proportion of your exposure immediately available as cash, much like a registered bank?

As an aside, I've been saying for a couple years now Flair airlines only exists to lease planes from 777, and is racking up a soon-to-be unsustainable debt in doing so.
They'll go into receivership at some point and 777 will only get pennies on the dollar of the opererating debt, but in the meantime they're paying in full for the airplanes which is all 777 cares about.

[landshark]

777 Partners is based out of Bermuda

[DanWEC]

If you want to learn about how 777 made their nest egg, here's more- and it's utterly revolting.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2 ... sh-wander/

[Smilin' Jack]

Companies do this all the time. Do you think that Warren Buffet worked a 9-5 job and saved up enough to buy each of the companies that BH owns? You have a holding company (777 group) that buys a couple of companies. Hopefully they are profitable. The thing about capitalism is that it is addictive. Why only earn $100 Million, when you can buy more businesses and earn a billion? The way to do that is to take the profit from one company and buy or start another business.

Haven't read the article above. There were lots of stories of how 777 made some shady money when they started.

[accountant]

Companies do this all the time. Do you think that Warren Buffet worked a 9-5 job and saved up enough to buy each of the companies that BH owns? You have a holding company (777 group) that buys a couple of companies. Hopefully they are profitable. The thing about capitalism is that it is addictive. Why only earn $100 Million, when you can buy more businesses and earn a billion? The way to do that is to take the profit from one company and buy or start another business.

Haven't read the article above. There were lots of stories of how 777 made some shady money when they started.

Difference with Buffett and 777 is Buffett has had far more established businesses, did similar things but bought cash flow oriented businesses that were staples (food, etc) that have brought reliable returns.

777 legit seems like a house of cards. I agree with assessment above that flair could go under. Them or Lynx.

Question is if 777 has somewhere to send those planes

[ready]

Really, you don’t think 777 could lease the 8-10 airplanes they lease to Flair right now to someone else? The delivery delays from Boeing on the Max have caused companies all over the world to change their expansion plans because they will not be getting their airplanes on schedule. Leasing Max’s isn’t an issue. There are plenty of airlines waiting on delayed aircraft. 777 could easily replace these leases to Flair, but they’re not.

[accountant]

Really, you don’t think 777 could lease the 8-10 airplanes they lease to Flair right now to someone else? The delivery delays from Boeing on the Max have caused companies all over the world to change their expansion plans because they will not be getting their airplanes on schedule. Leasing Max’s isn’t an issue. There are plenty of airlines waiting on delayed aircraft. 777 could easily replace these leases to Flair, but they’re not.

Not at the same rates on paper that’s for sure. Flair had no choice to pay the rates they did. Remember though not all planes belong to 777. They’re not because they need the high paper revenue to make it seem like they have the cash flows.

Get rid of the insurance reserves and they aren’t buying sports teams hand and fist.

[TC.Enforcement]

As an aside, I've been saying for a couple years now Flair airlines only exists to lease planes from 777, and is racking up a soon-to-be unsustainable debt in doing so.

Wasn’t it about 2 years ago you got booted from the Flair hiring pool?

[DanWEC]

As an aside, I've been saying for a couple years now Flair airlines only exists to lease planes from 777, and is racking up a soon-to-be unsustainable debt in doing so.

Wasn’t it about 2 years ago you got booted from the Flair hiring pool?

I'm not so sure about that --, but that's an interesting position to take. I did get a note from them a while back asking if I was interested but I obviously declined. What's your issue here? Go ahead and message me if you need to discuss anything, I'll be happy to catch up.

If you're prickly about your perception of my thoughts on Flair just look back and you'll find I've never disparaged the airline or crews in the slightest. I want them to succeed, these are just facts about 777 as a business. The article I posted above is damning.

[TC.Enforcement]

As an aside, I've been saying for a couple years now Flair airlines only exists to lease planes from 777, and is racking up a soon-to-be unsustainable debt in doing so.

Wasn’t it about 2 years ago you got booted from the Flair hiring pool?

I'm not so sure about that JD, but that's an interesting position to take. I did get a note from them a while back asking if I was interested but I obviously declined. What's your issue here? Go ahead and message me if you need to discuss anything, I'll be happy to catch up.

If you're prickly about your perception of my thoughts on Flair just look back and you'll find I've never disparaged the airline or crews in the slightest. I want them to succeed, these are just facts about 777 as a business. The article I posted above is damning.

No need to call someone out personally.

I haven't read through your comment history, but each time I see you post about Flair it's negative and speculative. I'm not sure what is so interesting about Flair or 777 partners that garners so much time and attention from someone not working here. You admit you've been saying for a couple years now that Flair is racking up unsustainable debt, yet here we are. I suppose if you say it long enough you may be right. Sort of like how a broken clock is right twice a day.

[DanWEC]

No need to call someone out personally.

I haven't read through your comment history, but each time I see you post about Flair it's negative and speculative. I'm not sure what is so interesting about Flair or 777 partners that garners so much time and attention from someone not working here. You admit you've been saying for a couple years now that Flair is racking up unsustainable debt, yet here we are. I suppose if you say it long enough you may be right. Sort of like how a broken clock is right twice a day.

Just responding in kind.

I made the gesture and removed your initials, just letting you know you aren't anonymous to me when making comments like that, but I really have no desire for any antagonism, it doesn't help anyone. Also, you'll have to edit your quote if you want them removed on yours.

I stand by my opinion that I've never hopped on the Flair-hating bandwagon. I wish the airline and their crews success. Take my word for it if you don't want to check back, but my comments are consistently directed at the very dubious nature of 777's business, not Flair. I fear they may just be bleeding the airline and are in it for the bottom line on the leasing side. This article happened to come up on my feed as this similar one was posted here. Nothing wrong with the trepidation.

[newlygrounded]

just letting you know you aren't anonymous to me when making comments like that, but I really have no desire for any antagonism

That's a little creepy buddy

[flying4dollars]

just letting you know you aren't anonymous to me when making comments like that, but I really have no desire for any antagonism

That's a little creepy buddy

?

[newlygrounded]

That's a little creepy buddy

?

Feels weird to have thinly veiled threats here

[truecolours]

Sounds like the US DOJ has launched an investigation into 777. About to get interesting.

[Airbrake]

Sounds like the US DOJ has launched an investigation into 777. About to get interesting.

Do you have a source of this?

[fish4life]

Sounds like the US DOJ has launched an investigation into 777. About to get interesting.

Do you have a source of this?

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/feds-pro ... 06325.html

[Airbrake]

Sounds like the US DOJ has launched an investigation into 777. About to get interesting.

Do you have a source of this?

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/feds-pro ... 06325.html

Perfect thanks.

[fish4life]

Do you have a source of this?

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/feds-pro ... 06325.html

Perfect thanks.

When this is the opening line it sure doesn’t seem like it is completely without merit

“ The federal prosecutor who won a conviction against Sam Bankman-Fried is overseeing a Justice Department investigation into sports buyer 777 Partners”

[truecolours]

I’m sure SJ will have an oped piece out there soon blaming someone else for this development.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Business as usual. Status quo.
F50 still happening.

Continue following the lemming in front of you. No cliffs ahead….we promise.

[rudder]

Business as usual. Status quo.
F50 still happening.

Continue following the lemming in front of you. No cliffs ahead….we promise.

What about F75/F100 at another carrier?

There can be as many ‘F Plans’ imagined as there are airline executives. But there will need to be passengers in those millions of seat miles imagined.

There is no room in Canada for the fantasy plans being espoused. Yields will tumble. Cash flows will go negative. And sooner rather than later somebody will disappear. Perhaps more than one somebody.

Canada population is 40 million. That is the limiting factor.

[WJ200]

Business as usual. Status quo.
F50 still happening.

Continue following the lemming in front of you. No cliffs ahead….we promise.

Unfortunately the road ahead is being painted by 777. You are the Coyote and what you think is a road in from of you may actually be a cliff. You won't realize it until your feet are hanging in the air. This is the reality of the messy situation that Flair has created for itself through no fault of the employees or senior leadership. I honestly wish you well but what's keeping the lights on seems more and more worrying as more information is made public.

[daedalusx]

Canada population is 40 million. That is the limiting factor.

That’s always been the problem. ULCC works in Europe due to high density population and relatively shorter routes.

Does anyone really believes Canadian customers entering a recession can support
- AC
- WJ/SWG
- Porter
- Transat
- Flair
- Lynx
- Jetlines

Especially at 25$ a fare ?
With these lease rates ?

I don’t get it.