Canada given C grade in flight safety oversight, confidential UN agency report finds

[Dias]

https://edmonton.citynews.ca/2023/12/07 ... ort-finds/

[rigpiggy]

canada-scores-poorly-in-un-aviation-agency-safety-oversight-audit

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/busines ... ght-audit/

We rated lower than Nigeria, good job TCCA

[Me262]

At least we have those extra 150hrs PIC requirements for ATPL that can only be done up north in the boonies while working ramp for 3 years at buffalo joe rednecks type of employers.

Europe (and RCAF) obviously have it all wrong being able to upgrade to captain (aka ATPL) by being able to get all your required PIC over the initial 100 from CPL as PICUS. Those extra 400hrs you can get all from PICUS in Europe while FO on a 737/A320 are much more low quality than the 150hrs (or 50 if you do get the 100hrs limit PICUS) in the boonies Canada requires.

[Heavy Rayn]

At least we have those extra 150hrs PIC requirements for ATPL that can only be done up north in the boonies while working ramp for 3 years at buffalo joe rednecks type of employers.

Europe (and RCAF) obviously have it all wrong being able to upgrade to captain (aka ATPL) by being able to get all your required PIC over the initial 100 from CPL as PICUS. Those extra 400hrs you can get all from PICUS in Europe while FO on a 737/A320 are much more low quality than the 150hrs (or 50 if you do get the 100hrs limit PICUS) in the boonies Canada requires.

I’ve never seen someone so upset about having to get some PIC time. You’ve complained about it on so many threads. I’d recommend you speak with your member of parliament if it bothers you that much.

[Me262]

At least we have those extra 150hrs PIC requirements for ATPL that can only be done up north in the boonies while working ramp for 3 years at buffalo joe rednecks type of employers.

Europe (and RCAF) obviously have it all wrong being able to upgrade to captain (aka ATPL) by being able to get all your required PIC over the initial 100 from CPL as PICUS. Those extra 400hrs you can get all from PICUS in Europe while FO on a 737/A320 are much more low quality than the 150hrs (or 50 if you do get the 100hrs limit PICUS) in the boonies Canada requires.

I’ve never seen someone so upset about having to get some PIC time. You’ve complained about it on so many threads. I’d recommend you speak with your member of parliament if it bothers you that much.

Because it's a retarded ancient rule. EASA doesn't do it, while their airspace is 100x more busy airspace and specific exemptions of the rules depending in what airspace you fly. RCAF doesn't do it. So yes, I complain, because that's how changes are made.

The flight safety report proves it. It only helps rednecks ala buffalo joe and the likes that get green pilots ready to be abused so they can get their PIC time up north. Luckily in the past few years this has not been the case as opportunities have started showing up if they invested another 15k on top of their 100k debt on a flight instructor rating.

[Heavy Rayn]

I don’t really have a stance on the topic, I was more so just saying if you have such a large issue with it you should complain to your MP as they may actually be able to assist in creating change down the line.

I know it’s apples to oranges but I’m curious what you think about the 1500 hour rule for part 121 jobs in the states? I’d say that sub 1500 hour pilots have it worse in the states than new pilots in Canada. 250 TT vs 1500 TT for the first airline job is quite a stark difference, even if the 250 TT pilot has to rent a 172 down the line to qualify for an ATPL.

[porcsord]

At least we have those extra 150hrs PIC requirements for ATPL that can only be done up north in the boonies while working ramp for 3 years at buffalo joe rednecks type of employers.

Europe (and RCAF) obviously have it all wrong being able to upgrade to captain (aka ATPL) by being able to get all your required PIC over the initial 100 from CPL as PICUS. Those extra 400hrs you can get all from PICUS in Europe while FO on a 737/A320 are much more low quality than the 150hrs (or 50 if you do get the 100hrs limit PICUS) in the boonies Canada requires.

I’ve never seen someone so upset about having to get some PIC time. You’ve complained about it on so many threads. I’d recommend you speak with your member of parliament if it bothers you that much.

Because it's a retarded ancient rule. EASA doesn't do it, while their airspace is 100x more busy airspace and specific exemptions of the rules depending in what airspace you fly. RCAF doesn't do it. So yes, I complain, because that's how changes are made.

The flight safety report proves it. It only helps rednecks ala buffalo joe and the likes that get green pilots ready to be abused so they can get their PIC time up north. Luckily in the past few years this has not been the case as opportunities have started showing up if they invested another 15k on top of their 100k debt on a flight instructor rating.

Ugh. You must be a delight to share the cockpit with...

RCAF has a level of risk that the public would not be okay with. Genuine PIC time is worth its weight in gold in an emergency and eventually you will agree with me on this statement. But you are too green at this point. Just calm down a little, you'll get your airline job eventually, and you can probably do it without going north.

Just a quick question though... before spending 100k on flight training, did you look into the requirements for career progression? When I got mine.... probably before you were born, cojo time counted as half towards your ATPL, knowing this.... I got a pic job in a small cessna. Surely you can finish a commerical multi ifr with 150pic for 100k.

[youhavecontrol]

I'm not at all surprised that our safety grade took a nose-dive. I've seen so many issues this past year with weather stations being down, radar stations down, and restricted ATC service causing Class A airspace closure and congestion below 18000'. I've had trouble at times choosing alternates because of poor airport maintenance, and had a near-miss because of congestion at 16000' due to airspace closure. It's embarrassing... really embarrassing.

[co-joe]

Having the same controller do clearance,apron, ground, and tower at the second busiest airport in the country, where you have flow control on sunny VFR days is a classic example of a country that has de-funded flight safety to a level that will eventually kill people. It's just a mater of the holes in the cheese lining up.

[Canadaflyer46]

Having the same controller do clearance,apron, ground, and tower at the second busiest airport in the country, where you have flow control on sunny VFR days is a classic example of a country that has de-funded flight safety to a level that will eventually kill people. It's just a mater of the holes in the cheese lining up.

Well said. YVR is an international embarrassment. As is the fact that ATC can’t see weather on their screens like in the US, despite the sky high ATC fees which should be paying for updated equipment rather than the YVR overtime bill.

[rigpiggy]

I’ve never seen someone so upset about having to get some PIC time. You’ve complained about it on so many threads. I’d recommend you speak with your member of parliament if it bothers you that much.

Because it's a retarded ancient rule. EASA doesn't do it, while their airspace is 100x more busy airspace and specific exemptions of the rules depending in what airspace you fly. RCAF doesn't do it. So yes, I complain, because that's how changes are made.

The flight safety report proves it. It only helps rednecks ala buffalo joe and the likes that get green pilots ready to be abused so they can get their PIC time up north. Luckily in the past few years this has not been the case as opportunities have started showing up if they invested another 15k on top of their 100k debt on a flight instructor rating.

Ugh. You must be a delight to share the cockpit with...

RCAF has a level of risk that the public would not be okay with. Genuine PIC time is worth its weight in gold in an emergency and eventually you will agree with me on this statement. But you are too green at this point. Just calm down a little, you'll get your airline job eventually, and you can probably do it without going north.

Just a quick question though... before spending 100k on flight training, did you look into the requirements for career progression? When I got mine.... probably before you were born, cojo time counted as half towards your ATPL, knowing this.... I got a pic job in a small cessna. Surely you can finish a commerical multi ifr with 150pic for 100k.

Aww Buttercup, 1. Your not in EASA land. 2. Have a nice hot cup of STFU

[porcsord]

Aww Buttercup

I prefer Pookie, thank you very much.

[rigpiggy]

Only if we are snuggling!

[rigpiggy]

And very quickly it devolves....

[itsgrosswhatinet]

At least we have those extra 150hrs PIC requirements for ATPL that can only be done up north in the boonies while working ramp for 3 years at buffalo joe rednecks type of employers.

Europe (and RCAF) obviously have it all wrong being able to upgrade to captain (aka ATPL) by being able to get all your required PIC over the initial 100 from CPL as PICUS. Those extra 400hrs you can get all from PICUS in Europe while FO on a 737/A320 are much more low quality than the 150hrs (or 50 if you do get the 100hrs limit PICUS) in the boonies Canada requires.

UN sounds alarm on Canadian flight safety, Canadian pilot calls for even less oversight.

[JHR]

When is the FAA finally going to require our airine pilots to have 1500hrs to fly in US airspace??

[cdnavater]

At least we have those extra 150hrs PIC requirements for ATPL that can only be done up north in the boonies while working ramp for 3 years at buffalo joe rednecks type of employers.

Europe (and RCAF) obviously have it all wrong being able to upgrade to captain (aka ATPL) by being able to get all your required PIC over the initial 100 from CPL as PICUS. Those extra 400hrs you can get all from PICUS in Europe while FO on a 737/A320 are much more low quality than the 150hrs (or 50 if you do get the 100hrs limit PICUS) in the boonies Canada requires.

I’ve never seen someone so upset about having to get some PIC time. You’ve complained about it on so many threads. I’d recommend you speak with your member of parliament if it bothers you that much.

Because it's a retarded ancient rule. EASA doesn't do it, while their airspace is 100x more busy airspace and specific exemptions of the rules depending in what airspace you fly. RCAF doesn't do it. So yes, I complain, because that's how changes are made.

The flight safety report proves it. It only helps rednecks ala buffalo joe and the likes that get green pilots ready to be abused so they can get their PIC time up north. Luckily in the past few years this has not been the case as opportunities have started showing up if they invested another 15k on top of their 100k debt on a flight instructor rating.

I’m all for it if we make it as hard to pass the (edit)14 exams in 6 sittings they have in Europe.


“Please note that you must pass all exams within 18 months of your first exam sitting. You have a total of 6 sittings to pass all the exams and no more than 4 attempts at any one subject within those 6 sittings”

[Dry Guy]

When is the FAA finally going to require our airine pilots to have 1500hrs to fly in US airspace??

I expect ICAO will step in soon and give TC a slap on the wrist. One more near miss.

[Hangry]

PICUS. Lolz.

[itsgrosswhatinet]

I expect ICAO will step in soon and give TC a slap on the wrist. One more near miss.

Or just 7 more North Star Air accidents.

[JHR]

For those of us that feel Canada has become the equivalent of a third world country...I will just leave this here...

https://www.ourcommons.ca/petitions/en/ ... ion=e-4701

[goingnowherefast]

I'm not at all surprised that our safety grade took a nose-dive. I've seen so many issues this past year with weather stations being down, radar stations down, and restricted ATC service causing Class A airspace closure and congestion below 18000'. I've had trouble at times choosing alternates because of poor airport maintenance, and had a near-miss because of congestion at 16000' due to airspace closure. It's embarrassing... really embarrassing.

Don't forget frequency outages.

Also from a regulatory compliance perspective, operators get advance notice (to clean up their books) of upcomming inspections.

There is "TC North" and "TC South", where Jazz and Perimeter are held to a different standard despite flying the exact same airplane (I'm not picking on any specific airline, the same can be said for any northern operator).

It's not just poor airport maintenance, but also reporting of the runway and airport conditions. Preparing for a flight on Monday, there was a big dump of snow on Saturday, NOTAM is still from Friday. Or my favorite, "snow/gravel mix" because the operators told the airport that's what they need. Once we get there, it's 1in loose dry snow. The only plowing that's been done is to bury the deice ladder.

Don't even get me started on deice. A couple crashes including a fatality and the best we get from TC is a couple of advance notice inspections at hub airports. No changes to infrastructure or infrastructure requirements. No inspections at remote airports during a snowstorm where the actual deice risk is.

SMS is a tool for the regulator to offload safety inspections (sarcasm to highlight how SMS has evolved in the regulatory inspection process). What's the need to ensure operators are following safety regs when the dirty old ops manager is holding himself to his own interpretation of the regulation...or that he can hide when TC warns him they're coming! (Don't get me wrong, SMS is a great tool, but it also assumes regulatory compliance is already taking place. It's not substitute for regulatory surveillance).

My favorite part of the article is where it mentions that Canadian aviation is safer than it used to be, with less fatalities than we've had in the past. That's great, but our peer countries are improving at a much faster pace, and Canada is getting left behind. "...no major commercial airline crashes in decades". I guess 12 years ago is "multiple decades". Either that or a 737 isn't a major airliner (First Air 6560). I can see how they'd confuse an ATR for an airliner, but it was definitely not plural "decades" ago (WestWind 282). Canada only has had recent hard landings, hard enough to remove the landing gear and engines from the airframe (Air Canada 624).

Normally I'm disappointed in news media, especially with aviation reporting. However I'm in agreement with this article. It's time Canada steps up it's ICAO compliance and follows their recommendations. "We're Canada, so we're going to do things a bit differently" obviously isn't working.

[co-joe]

...
My favorite part of the article is where it mentions that Canadian aviation is safer than it used to be, with less fatalities than we've had in the past. That's great, but our peer countries are improving at a much faster pace, and Canada is getting left behind. "...no major commercial airline crashes in decades". I guess 12 years ago is "multiple decades". Either that or a 737 isn't a major airliner (First Air 6560). I can see how they'd confuse an ATR for an airliner, but it was definitely not plural "decades" ago (WestWind 282). Canada only has had recent hard landings, hard enough to remove the landing gear and engines from the airframe (Air Canada 624).

Normally I'm disappointed in news media, especially with aviation reporting. However I'm in agreement with this article. It's time Canada steps up it's ICAO compliance and follows their recommendations. "We're Canada, so we're going to do things a bit differently" obviously isn't working.

+ How many airframes have Jazz and Encore written off in that time frame? 3 each?

[Me262]

I’ve never seen someone so upset about having to get some PIC time. You’ve complained about it on so many threads. I’d recommend you speak with your member of parliament if it bothers you that much.

Because it's a retarded ancient rule. EASA doesn't do it, while their airspace is 100x more busy airspace and specific exemptions of the rules depending in what airspace you fly. RCAF doesn't do it. So yes, I complain, because that's how changes are made.

The flight safety report proves it. It only helps rednecks ala buffalo joe and the likes that get green pilots ready to be abused so they can get their PIC time up north. Luckily in the past few years this has not been the case as opportunities have started showing up if they invested another 15k on top of their 100k debt on a flight instructor rating.

I’m all for it if we make it as hard to pass the (edit)14 exams in 6 sittings they have in Europe.


“Please note that you must pass all exams within 18 months of your first exam sitting. You have a total of 6 sittings to pass all the exams and no more than 4 attempts at any one subject within those 6 sittings”

I absolutely agree. Only 2 exams is just skimming the surface. Mind you those exams range from 2hrs down to 45 min so not as convoluted. And it's 13 exams now.

[ant_321]

Because it's a retarded ancient rule. EASA doesn't do it, while their airspace is 100x more busy airspace and specific exemptions of the rules depending in what airspace you fly. RCAF doesn't do it. So yes, I complain, because that's how changes are made.

The flight safety report proves it. It only helps rednecks ala buffalo joe and the likes that get green pilots ready to be abused so they can get their PIC time up north. Luckily in the past few years this has not been the case as opportunities have started showing up if they invested another 15k on top of their 100k debt on a flight instructor rating.

I’m all for it if we make it as hard to pass the (edit)14 exams in 6 sittings they have in Europe.


“Please note that you must pass all exams within 18 months of your first exam sitting. You have a total of 6 sittings to pass all the exams and no more than 4 attempts at any one subject within those 6 sittings”

I absolutely agree. Only 2 exams is just skimming the surface. Mind you those exams range from 2hrs down to 45 min so not as convoluted. And it's 13 exams now.

It’s pretty short sighted for any professional to advocate to make any sort of licensing in their profession easier. In my opinion it’s far too easy to get an ATPL. Keep the entry as high and difficult as possible and limit supply.