twa22 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 10:58 am
Just over 7000 CPLs in force as of 2018, and over 13000 ATPLs in force, as Dan pointed out... So combined 20000... That number has probably not changed much, or has declined since (and the CPL number is not an accurate representation of workforce, as some may have the license and don't fly as a career)
Neither number is representative. It's not just CPL folks that dont fly as a career. I hold an ATPL, as do a considerable number of my friends. None of us fly as a career today, we all quit that biz back in the late 80's or early 90's.
digits_ wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 1:29 pm
I'm inviting every CPL/ATPL pilot out there who's also a doctor/engineer/lawyer to tell me if they disagree with my assessment that a CPL is significantly easier to attain.
I can speak this directly, I have done both tracks, engineering specifically, cant speak to docs or lawyers. Not only to the difficulty of getting the engineering papers, but also the cost as compared to flying.
Took my first flying lesson in '76, finished the ppl course and flite test over the summer, but was stuck waiting for the license to get issued until I had another birthday. But had already decided was going to go after the cpl, so at the age of 16 I bought an airplane, 1946 Aeronca Chief which I paid $4000 for in 1976. from then thru till late summer '77 I flew it enough to get 200 hours in the book at which time I sold it to fund the cpl program. Had the cpl by March '78, graduated from high school in June of 78. Kinda proves the lack of any academic requirements to head down the pilot path, I had the cpl already before I finished high school.
Like most kids in the small town BC interior, after high school I got a job at the sawmill, used that to fund getting the MIFR and the Instructor rating. At that point, I did something stupid and wasted a summer going down a path I shouldn't have, but got back on my track by late winter. By then I knew I was going to go after the engineering education, so I knuckled down into a job at the mine driving truck for a year to save up cash so I could afford to go to school. Busy times, my shifts in the mine were 4 on and 4 off, and I had a part time gig at the airport for my days off which is how I started down the path of getting the hours needed for an atpl. Saved every penny I could those days to fund my trip thru school.
I started into post secondary in '81, spent the next 4 years going to school for fall and winter semester, taking seasonal flying jobs over the summer. Over the 4 years I spent in school, did as little as 5, and as many as 8 courses in a semester. In every course there were two exams per semester, they were difficult exams and we had a lot of folks go by the wayside over 4 years simply because they were unable to complete the academics. I started in a class of well over 100 for first semester, by the time we started semester 8, class was down to 26. I was on the aero track, and the math courses in second year were the first significant culling point, then by third year the introduction of shock waves to the fluid dynamics courses became another significant culling point. All thru those 4 years, there was none of this 'fail an exam, come back 30 days later and try again'. If one didn't succeed in a course one semester, there was an option to repeat the course, but if one didn't succeed in two courses over a semester, that was the end of the road and you would not be admitted into the next semester. I never saw a multiple choice test once in those 4 years.
I contrast that experience, to going from student permit thru to ATPL. Never saw a difficult exam along the way, they were all pretty basic multiple choice tests, if one didn't succeed, just come back in 30 days and try again. The ATPL exams were the biggest joke of them all. When my time came for those I spent $150 to take a weekend seminar where they pumped us full of the answers, then went in and wrote one on Monday morning, the other on Monday afternoon. I never even cracked a book for the ATPL exams, just did a seminar and then wrote them both in one day.
As for the cost many go on about, I can say with absolute certainty, the 4 years of engineering school cost me more than the process of going from zero to hero as a freshly minted cpl+mifr+ir. Tally up 4 years of tuition, rent and food while not working and the final tally was significantly higher than the flying, it just dribbled out slower over 4 years rather than all at once. I did all my flying while working, full time jobs when I wasn't in high school, so never went into debt to get any of it. Even during high school, I had started working full time summer jobs at age 14 and saved my money, so I was able to buy that airplane when I wanted it.
I know it's a very unpopular opinion here on AvCanada, but a long time regular poster was eventually banned for repeating it over an over. The road to an ATPL is very similar to any trade where you start as an apprentice, then work in the field for a few years till you get the required hours, finally write the exams and then get the ticket. Once you have that ticket, you too can get a union job at a union shop. The entry bar may cost a bit more than that for a plumber or electrician, but to compare it with something like engineer, a profession that takes years of study and costs more, is just ludicrous.
Having 'been there, done that' down both paths, I can say one thing with absolute certainty. those who think getting to the point of an ATPL is as difficult as becoming an engineer are still drinking the delusional kool aid peddled by flight schools. There is no comparison, the engineer path is an order of magnitude more difficult and somewhat more expensive.
