Should I go to Jazz?

[Hellothere!]

Hi, looking for some advice.

I am a 750 hour ATR FO working in northern Canada. My schedule is pretty good, I have the opportunity to work 12 days a month, can do 2 on, 2 off or a week and a week, whatever I basically want as long as it follows CARs regs. I'm building about 60-80 hours a month. I applied at Jazz, got the job and now i'm debating if I should go or not. Home is Vancouver and I'm currently commuting. If I go to Jazz the main reason to go is to get a Vancouver base (I have alpa status so I should get first draw in my GS). My end goal is likely to go Westjet or AC, probably prefer WJ though (till AC's new contract drops lol). I figure if I stay where I am I can get my As in a year flying as much as I am and go straight to WJ assuming they are still hiring, whereas If I go to Jazz I think it will take roughly 2 years. My current job is pretty recession proof as well.

Do I stay where I am, hope that I can go direct WJ at 1500 hours in about a year or do I take the Jazz offer where my lifestyle will be more balanced, likely wont have to commute assuming I get the YVR base but it'll take me twice as long to get my As and to my end goal? I don't want to get stuck flying up north for more than another year if hiring slows down...

Any advice is much appreciated!

Thanks

[Me262]

I think you answered your own question. Staying put and build those hrs and go straight to AC/WJ mainlines seem to be the best path. With Jazz you are shooting yourself in the foot and closing AC opportunity for the next 3 years (good luck getting the flow in 2 years). And you could also get ATR Capt upgrade while building hrs vs learning a new type from scratch.

Also AFAIK you draw your seniority from a hat during GS, your ALPA status means nothing. You draw the shortstick, you get whatever is left out of 4 bases. Then you sit on reserve for 6-18 months while you wait to build your seniority.

[yowflyer23]

I think you answered your own question. Staying put and build those hrs and go straight to AC/WJ mainlines seem to be the best path. With Jazz you are shooting yourself in the foot and closing AC opportunity for the next 3 years (good luck getting the flow in 2 years). And you could also get ATR Capt upgrade while building hrs vs learning a new type from scratch.

Also AFAIK you draw your seniority from a hat during GS, your ALPA status means nothing. You draw the shortstick, you get whatever is left out of 4 bases. Then you sit on reserve for 6-18 months while you wait to build your seniority.

People joining from an ALPA carrier get to pick first.

[cdnavater]

I think you answered your own question. Staying put and build those hrs and go straight to AC/WJ mainlines seem to be the best path. With Jazz you are shooting yourself in the foot and closing AC opportunity for the next 3 years (good luck getting the flow in 2 years). And you could also get ATR Capt upgrade while building hrs vs learning a new type from scratch.

Also AFAIK you draw your seniority from a hat during GS, your ALPA status means nothing. You draw the shortstick, you get whatever is left out of 4 bases. Then you sit on reserve for 6-18 months while you wait to build your seniority.

First of all, Me262 has no idea what he’s talking about here, too young to know how this industry works. It appears your timing for AC or WJ might be off a bit if you wait a year. All signs point to things slowing down in a years time, so waiting could definitely keep you up North longer than you want or anticipate.
I seriously doubt anyone sits on reserve for 18 months given how much hiring is ongoing, as FO you will move up every list pretty quick and YVR base is definitely a real possibility in short order, if not in the first week more than likely before your initial training is done.
As for a WJ YVR base, they can speak to that but it is a very senior base and likely many ahead of new hires waiting. So Jazz and then AC will get you to YVR much quicker.
I’m not sure about your pay up there and how it compares to Jazz but coming to Jazz will delay your ATPL by about 6 months with the initial training and then possibly reserve but the risk of course is staying put and missing the wave.
Good luck with your decision!

[Outlaw58]

Hi, looking for some advice.

I am a 750 hour ATR FO working in northern Canada. My schedule is pretty good, I have the opportunity to work 12 days a month, can do 2 on, 2 off or a week and a week, whatever I basically want as long as it follows CARs regs. I'm building about 60-80 hours a month. I applied at Jazz, got the job and now i'm debating if I should go or not. Home is Vancouver and I'm currently commuting. If I go to Jazz the main reason to go is to get a Vancouver base (I have alpa status so I should get first draw in my GS). My end goal is likely to go Westjet or AC, probably prefer WJ though (till AC's new contract drops lol). I figure if I stay where I am I can get my As in a year flying as much as I am and go straight to WJ assuming they are still hiring, whereas If I go to Jazz I think it will take roughly 2 years. My current job is pretty recession proof as well.

Do I stay where I am, hope that I can go direct WJ at 1500 hours in about a year or do I take the Jazz offer where my lifestyle will be more balanced, likely wont have to commute assuming I get the YVR base but it'll take me twice as long to get my As and to my end goal? I don't want to get stuck flying up north for more than another year if hiring slows down...

Any advice is much appreciated!

Thanks

As a good rule of thumb, never take a job you don't want only because it's a springboard to the one you DO want. Being happy as a pilot is NEVER about the destination and managing your career that way is a fail-safe recipe to ensure you will never be happy in the cockpit of an airplane.

It is mature and responsible to have a path in mind and to make choices that will keep you along that path while not burning any bridges along the way. But while you are walking down that path, make sure you are enjoying the flying job you are currently doing. It will make all the difference in the world when you reach that dream job you've been working for and everything I wrote will make a lot of sense when you look back at your career through the rearview mirror.

58

[Nick678]

Hi, looking for some advice.

I am a 750 hour ATR FO working in northern Canada. My schedule is pretty good, I have the opportunity to work 12 days a month, can do 2 on, 2 off or a week and a week, whatever I basically want as long as it follows CARs regs. I'm building about 60-80 hours a month. I applied at Jazz, got the job and now i'm debating if I should go or not. Home is Vancouver and I'm currently commuting. If I go to Jazz the main reason to go is to get a Vancouver base (I have alpa status so I should get first draw in my GS). My end goal is likely to go Westjet or AC, probably prefer WJ though (till AC's new contract drops lol). I figure if I stay where I am I can get my As in a year flying as much as I am and go straight to WJ assuming they are still hiring, whereas If I go to Jazz I think it will take roughly 2 years. My current job is pretty recession proof as well.

Do I stay where I am, hope that I can go direct WJ at 1500 hours in about a year or do I take the Jazz offer where my lifestyle will be more balanced, likely wont have to commute assuming I get the YVR base but it'll take me twice as long to get my As and to my end goal? I don't want to get stuck flying up north for more than another year if hiring slows down...

Any advice is much appreciated!

Thanks

Going to jazz would close the door to AC not open it. You’re flying 705 and based on timelines and AC hiring quota for next year it’s best to stick it out and apply ounce you meet the requirements, you will wait years if you go to jazz. Porter should be opening a west coast base and should be considered when they do!

[Nick678]

Hi, looking for some advice.

I am a 750 hour ATR FO working in northern Canada. My schedule is pretty good, I have the opportunity to work 12 days a month, can do 2 on, 2 off or a week and a week, whatever I basically want as long as it follows CARs regs. I'm building about 60-80 hours a month. I applied at Jazz, got the job and now i'm debating if I should go or not. Home is Vancouver and I'm currently commuting. If I go to Jazz the main reason to go is to get a Vancouver base (I have alpa status so I should get first draw in my GS). My end goal is likely to go Westjet or AC, probably prefer WJ though (till AC's new contract drops lol). I figure if I stay where I am I can get my As in a year flying as much as I am and go straight to WJ assuming they are still hiring, whereas If I go to Jazz I think it will take roughly 2 years. My current job is pretty recession proof as well.

Do I stay where I am, hope that I can go direct WJ at 1500 hours in about a year or do I take the Jazz offer where my lifestyle will be more balanced, likely wont have to commute assuming I get the YVR base but it'll take me twice as long to get my As and to my end goal? I don't want to get stuck flying up north for more than another year if hiring slows down...

Any advice is much appreciated!

Thanks

Going to jazz would close the door to AC not open it. You’re flying 705 and based on timelines and AC hiring quota for next year it’s best to stick it out and apply ounce you meet the requirements, you will wait years if you go to jazz. Porter should be opening a west coast base and should be considered when they do!

You are correct that ALPA will pick first in the class but everyone and their cousin is a ALPA member these days.

[canadian_aviator_4]

Hi, looking for some advice.

I am a 750 hour ATR FO working in northern Canada. My schedule is pretty good, I have the opportunity to work 12 days a month, can do 2 on, 2 off or a week and a week, whatever I basically want as long as it follows CARs regs. I'm building about 60-80 hours a month. I applied at Jazz, got the job and now i'm debating if I should go or not. Home is Vancouver and I'm currently commuting. If I go to Jazz the main reason to go is to get a Vancouver base (I have alpa status so I should get first draw in my GS). My end goal is likely to go Westjet or AC, probably prefer WJ though (till AC's new contract drops lol). I figure if I stay where I am I can get my As in a year flying as much as I am and go straight to WJ assuming they are still hiring, whereas If I go to Jazz I think it will take roughly 2 years. My current job is pretty recession proof as well.

Do I stay where I am, hope that I can go direct WJ at 1500 hours in about a year or do I take the Jazz offer where my lifestyle will be more balanced, likely wont have to commute assuming I get the YVR base but it'll take me twice as long to get my As and to my end goal? I don't want to get stuck flying up north for more than another year if hiring slows down...

Any advice is much appreciated!

Thanks

Going to jazz would close the door to AC not open it. You’re flying 705 and based on timelines and AC hiring quota for next year it’s best to stick it out and apply ounce you meet the requirements, you will wait years if you go to jazz. Porter should be opening a west coast base and should be considered when they do!

If you are set on AC don’t go to jazz. Simple.

[rudder]

Hi, looking for some advice.

I am a 750 hour ATR FO working in northern Canada. My schedule is pretty good, I have the opportunity to work 12 days a month, can do 2 on, 2 off or a week and a week, whatever I basically want as long as it follows CARs regs. I'm building about 60-80 hours a month. I applied at Jazz, got the job and now i'm debating if I should go or not. Home is Vancouver and I'm currently commuting. If I go to Jazz the main reason to go is to get a Vancouver base (I have alpa status so I should get first draw in my GS). My end goal is likely to go Westjet or AC, probably prefer WJ though (till AC's new contract drops lol). I figure if I stay where I am I can get my As in a year flying as much as I am and go straight to WJ assuming they are still hiring, whereas If I go to Jazz I think it will take roughly 2 years. My current job is pretty recession proof as well.

Do I stay where I am, hope that I can go direct WJ at 1500 hours in about a year or do I take the Jazz offer where my lifestyle will be more balanced, likely wont have to commute assuming I get the YVR base but it'll take me twice as long to get my As and to my end goal? I don't want to get stuck flying up north for more than another year if hiring slows down...

Any advice is much appreciated!

Thanks

Going to jazz would close the door to AC not open it. You’re flying 705 and based on timelines and AC hiring quota for next year it’s best to stick it out and apply ounce you meet the requirements, you will wait years if you go to jazz. Porter should be opening a west coast base and should be considered when they do!

If you are set on AC don’t go to jazz. Simple.

Give the 30% quota reduction (30% of 100 = 30. Welcome to 2026 AC hiring) that is a fairly accurate assessment.

[PA-18]

Hi, looking for some advice.

I am a 750 hour ATR FO working in northern Canada. My schedule is pretty good, I have the opportunity to work 12 days a month, can do 2 on, 2 off or a week and a week, whatever I basically want as long as it follows CARs regs. I'm building about 60-80 hours a month. I applied at Jazz, got the job and now i'm debating if I should go or not. Home is Vancouver and I'm currently commuting. If I go to Jazz the main reason to go is to get a Vancouver base (I have alpa status so I should get first draw in my GS). My end goal is likely to go Westjet or AC, probably prefer WJ though (till AC's new contract drops lol). I figure if I stay where I am I can get my As in a year flying as much as I am and go straight to WJ assuming they are still hiring, whereas If I go to Jazz I think it will take roughly 2 years. My current job is pretty recession proof as well.

Do I stay where I am, hope that I can go direct WJ at 1500 hours in about a year or do I take the Jazz offer where my lifestyle will be more balanced, likely wont have to commute assuming I get the YVR base but it'll take me twice as long to get my As and to my end goal? I don't want to get stuck flying up north for more than another year if hiring slows down...

Any advice is much appreciated!

Thanks

Can’t tell you what you should do. It’s like going to the grocery store and picking a line. Personally, I think you’re already in a line that gives you an option to get to either of the 2 mainline carriers in this country that both have bases in yvr. I would not leave that line to go to another line (jazz) if you don’t plan on a career there or AC after a terrible flow through agreement. If your goal is westjet, why did you apply at jazz? Your already flying a heavy turbo prop. You could either stay in line and apply at westjet, or you could apply at sunwing and hope for a yvr base after merger. Or go to AC. You’ve put in this much time, keep giviner and go direct where you want to end up.

[Turboprops]

Just want to point out that the most junior YVR pilot at Westjet was hired Dec 4, 2023, which is the most recent ground school.

To OP, I was flying as a medevac captain in MB when I went to Jazz summer last year, it was the worst decision I’ve ever made.
Had I known what I know now, I would’ve never joined Jazz.
60% flow is really 30%, now its changed to 30%, what are the odds it becomes 15% in reality?
Terrible wages and still subpar now with the whopping 50% raise ($64/hr).
They say they have a great contract but how many grievances are still being filed everyday?
The reality is that Jazz is a regional airline, and it will always be, they don’t own any of their flying and AC does whatever they want.

Im not saying stay at calm air and apply to AC/WJ from there, there’s a real chance hiring slows down some point next year. Im just sharing my thoughts and there are better airlines out there.

[apetogetherstrong]

Come to Encore! It doesn't get mentioned much in these forums as it's the best kept secret in aviation. I love it here. Great work life balance, fast climb up the seniority, fair compensation, that will continue to go up as other airlines help lift our wages. Western base. Option to go to mainline, what more could you want?

[cdnavater]

Come to Encore! It doesn't get mentioned much in these forums as it's the best kept secret in aviation. I love it here. Great work life balance, fast climb up the seniority, fair compensation, that will continue to go up as other airlines help lift our wages. Western base. Option to go to mainline, what more could you want?

Best kept secret, Jesus I that’s not an exaggeration I don’t know what is!
Tell the truth, a new hire Encore is behind every single Encore pilot for Mainline which at the current rate will take YEARS to get to mainline!
And like Jazz, your company has parked airplanes and has half the pilots they used to instead of fixing the pay problem.
The reality is, the quickest way to WJ mainline is probably Jazz and the quickest way the AC is Encore, that’s the best kept secret.
I certainly can’t speak to the work life balance but would prefer examples of what a junior pilots balance looks like instead of a blanket statement, no doubt Jazz has some issues with QOL right now but it certainly has the best contract out of any regional in Canada.
To the OP, I stand by my opinion, sticking it out another year has some risks associated with that, you could, I repeat could get stuck in the North a little longer than expected but if your Northern job is CALM Air, there are much worse places to be stuck, that being said my information is out of date on CALM Air, it’s pre EIC ownership.

[yowflyer23]

Kind of sounds like this is really a choice of where you’d rather be stuck while the music slows down. WJ hiring is over at mainline for the time being. Not sure if that’s temporary or if it will stay that way for a while. Hard to tell how the Sunwing integration will affect that. AC’s hiring will slow down to just retirements after this year as well. Once that happens, I’m not sure if it will be as easy to get hired with the bare minimum 2000TT either. Not to say it won’t happen. Regardless of what option you pick, there’s a chance you’ll be sticking with your choice for a while. Would you rather fly an ATR up north on rotation for the next couple years or would you rather be based at home in YVR with Jazz? Each choice will get you to where you want to be eventually. Depends on your priorities.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Come to Encore! It doesn't get mentioned much in these forums as it's the best kept secret in aviation. I love it here. Great work life balance, fast climb up the seniority, fair compensation, that will continue to go up as other airlines help lift our wages. Western base. Option to go to mainline, what more could you want?

Best kept secret, Jesus I that’s not an exaggeration I don’t know what is!
Tell the truth, a new hire Encore is behind every single Encore pilot for Mainline which at the current rate will take YEARS to get to mainline!
And like Jazz, your company has parked airplanes and has half the pilots they used to instead of fixing the pay problem.
The reality is, the quickest way to WJ mainline is probably Jazz and the quickest way the AC is Encore, that’s the best kept secret.
I certainly can’t speak to the work life balance but would prefer examples of what a junior pilots balance looks like instead of a blanket statement, no doubt Jazz has some issues with QOL right now but it certainly has the best contract out of any regional in Canada.
To the OP, I stand by my opinion, sticking it out another year has some risks associated with that, you could, I repeat could get stuck in the North a little longer than expected but if your Northern job is CALM Air, there are much worse places to be stuck, that being said my information is out of date on CALM Air, it’s pre EIC ownership.

There’s an apestogetstrong and apetogetstrong, apes is legit, ape is troll. Don’t get sucked in.

[Canadaflyer46]

Come to Encore! It doesn't get mentioned much in these forums as it's the best kept secret in aviation. I love it here. Great work life balance, fast climb up the seniority, fair compensation, that will continue to go up as other airlines help lift our wages. Western base. Option to go to mainline, what more could you want?

Best kept secret, Jesus I that’s not an exaggeration I don’t know what is!
Tell the truth, a new hire Encore is behind every single Encore pilot for Mainline which at the current rate will take YEARS to get to mainline!
And like Jazz, your company has parked airplanes and has half the pilots they used to instead of fixing the pay problem.
The reality is, the quickest way to WJ mainline is probably Jazz and the quickest way the AC is Encore, that’s the best kept secret.
I certainly can’t speak to the work life balance but would prefer examples of what a junior pilots balance looks like instead of a blanket statement, no doubt Jazz has some issues with QOL right now but it certainly has the best contract out of any regional in Canada.
To the OP, I stand by my opinion, sticking it out another year has some risks associated with that, you could, I repeat could get stuck in the North a little longer than expected but if your Northern job is CALM Air, there are much worse places to be stuck, that being said my information is out of date on CALM Air, it’s pre EIC ownership.

There’s an apestogetstrong and apetogetstrong, apes is legit, ape is troll. Don’t get sucked in.

Thank you for pointing that out! I almost spat my coffee when I saw him describe Encore as "the best kept secret in Canadian aviation". Troll level: expert.

[rooster]

Hi, looking for some advice.

I am a 750 hour ATR FO working in northern Canada. My schedule is pretty good, I have the opportunity to work 12 days a month, can do 2 on, 2 off or a week and a week, whatever I basically want as long as it follows CARs regs. I'm building about 60-80 hours a month. I applied at Jazz, got the job and now i'm debating if I should go or not. Home is Vancouver and I'm currently commuting. If I go to Jazz the main reason to go is to get a Vancouver base (I have alpa status so I should get first draw in my GS). My end goal is likely to go Westjet or AC, probably prefer WJ though (till AC's new contract drops lol). I figure if I stay where I am I can get my As in a year flying as much as I am and go straight to WJ assuming they are still hiring, whereas If I go to Jazz I think it will take roughly 2 years. My current job is pretty recession proof as well.

Do I stay where I am, hope that I can go direct WJ at 1500 hours in about a year or do I take the Jazz offer where my lifestyle will be more balanced, likely wont have to commute assuming I get the YVR base but it'll take me twice as long to get my As and to my end goal? I don't want to get stuck flying up north for more than another year if hiring slows down...

Any advice is much appreciated!

Thanks

Consider this: Realistically by the time you have enough hours for AC, the hiring wave will have stopped or significantly slowed. Even if there's a bit of hiring, you will have the BARE minimum and with the new world class contract that everyone hopes is coming, you unfortunately will be competing against a lot of experienced guys who with the new contract, will be applying to AC. You will however be marketable to WestJet, Flair, Porter, Transat etc and I'm willing to bet they will be hiring. Timing in this industry is everything. Jazz seems like a sinking ship and a lot of uncertainty. They are handcuffed by big brother (AC). I would target WJ if I were you. Still a great career option, pay is better and with the future of pattern bargaining, you'll enjoy a fruitful career there. You even said yourself it was your preference. I'm not saying don't apply to AC when the time comes, but I'm just giving you a realistic perspective.

THAT being said, if you're happy where you're at, stay put, get your A's if you can where you are. You've already got some time in with them, so when you're ready, you can get 705 command time. You also mentioned your job is recession proof, so your safe bet is where you are. I mean bro you only have 750 hours. No offense but you're just a tadpole. Sit tight and enjoy where you are. The ATR operators in northern Canada are great places to work from what I've heard. Put in your time, and when you're ready, head to the majors. Skip Jazz. 10+ years ago, yeah I'd have said go.

[Babar350]

I went to Jazz, stayed reserve for 8 months, and then could hold a block... of standups.

Stay where you are, you'll keep all the doors open. Don't forget to take your A's.
Don't forget Flair/Lynx/Transat and Porter, those would also be good options compared to Jazz.

[PropDog]

I went to Jazz, stayed reserve for 8 months, and then could hold a block... of standups.

Stay where you are, you'll keep all the doors open. Don't forget to take your A's.
Don't forget Flair/Lynx/Transat and Porter, those would also be good options compared to Jazz.

Porters great but get your As and 1500-2000 hours so you can go straight onto the E2.

[flyinhigh]

I went to Jazz, stayed reserve for 8 months, and then could hold a block... of standups.

Stay where you are, you'll keep all the doors open. Don't forget to take your A's.
Don't forget Flair/Lynx/Transat and Porter, those would also be good options compared to Jazz.

That’s worse than a kick in the nuts. It’s that bad there?

[dontcallmeshirley]

There’s an apestogetstrong and apetogetstrong, apes is legit, ape is troll. Don’t get sucked in.

Let's be honest, they make a good point.

Come to Encore! It doesn't get mentioned much in these forums as it's the best kept secret in aviation. I love it here. Great work life balance, fast climb up the seniority, fair compensation, that will continue to go up as other airlines help lift our wages. Western base. Option to go to mainline, what more could you want?

Best kept secret - I agree, that's bull-crap.

Great work/life balance - absolutely. I work 14-16 days a month. Out of the 10 reserve blocks (4-days long) I've gotten over the past few months, I have only gotten called out twice for a total of 6 days worked. Maximum 2 blocks per month means you can work 6-8 days a month.

Fast climb up the seniority list - Yes and no. Yes: the seniority list is moving quickly and you'll get the opportunity to upgrade to captain within two years assuming you meet the upgrade matrix. No: all pilots hired in 2023 and later will not retain their seniority when moving up to mainline. There is a chance that it will be addressed and some compromise made in the near future, but don't count on it until the ink dries.

Fair compensation - at Encore, you will make more money than an Air Canada pilot every year for the first 5 years unless you upgrade early. For those who are keeping their seniority number, with the proposed "red circle" (keep current rate when you flow until the mainline rate exceeds your last Encore rate), a pilot at Encore flowing into mainline with have a total compensation (all years combined) greater than going directly to Air Canada for (roughly) 10 years at the company. Hopefully the new AC contract will change this, but again, don't count on it until the ink dries.

Western base - You have the option between YYC, YYC, and YYC. Once you flow to mainline you have YVR, YYC, YEG, YWG, and YYZ. With the Sunwing merger, we might gain one or two more bases. Air Canada has this one in the bag for anyone who doesn't specifically want YYC.

I choose WestJet because I will be giving up money, vacation time, and time at home during my children's early years in return for flying the flag carrier and having the opportunity to fly a widebody sooner.

I personally don't see the appeal of Air Canada unless you want to be based in YUL, want to fly an Airbus and/or widebody, or think that Air Canada is prestigious. I welcome the discourse that my opinion brings.

[canadian_aviator_4]

Answer: No

[CaptDukeNukem]

There’s an apestogetstrong and apetogetstrong, apes is legit, ape is troll. Don’t get sucked in.

Let's be honest, they make a good point.

Okay. Regardless, the answer to the original question : “should I go to jazz”

The answer is no.

[CaptDukeNukem]

I personally don't see the appeal of Air Canada unless you want to be based in YUL, want to fly an Airbus and/or widebody, or think that Air Canada is prestigious. I welcome the discourse that my opinion brings.

But it’s the NHL!

Forgive me. I forget AC based in Quebec. French first.

LNH/NHL.

[flying4dollars]

There’s an apestogetstrong and apetogetstrong, apes is legit, ape is troll. Don’t get sucked in.

Let's be honest, they make a good point.

Okay. Regardless, the answer to the original question : “should I go to jazz”

The answer is no.

+1