hsilgnepilot wrote: ↑Thu Dec 21, 2023 9:35 am
The people in here bashing pilots for wanting to have their seniority respected are part of the reason we’re so far behind our peers in the US. If we want to see the industry in Canada get better, we need to start acting like American pilots. We need to stick up for one another and OUR interests.
Imagine saying “well you could be flying a Hawker out of YPL” and “oh complaining about being on a Dash 8 for a year after flight instructing”. Well guess what, times have changed. Just because you might’ve had to 35 years ago, doesn’t reflect the reality of the industry for everyone today.
God forbid a pilot want his seniority to be respected instead of seeing hundreds of pilots hired off the street for a position which he’s interested in within the company. God forbid asking for bypass pay or YOS transfer with pay progression. No, that would make too much sense!
Would you use the same dialogue towards a Rouge pilot whose been on the Airbus for a year, if AC started hiring off the street specifically for the 787 & 777 and hypothetically created a new pay scale which doesn’t include flat pay? Would you tell them they could be flying a Hawker or Dash 8 instead?
Would I use the same dialogue towards a rouge pilot for some made up scenario that doesn’t exist? I don’t know it’s a made up scenario that doesn’t exist so maybe. If that pilot has been flying for only a couple years.
Believe me, no one wants seniority and YOS respected more than the people that actually had to spend time working for it.
I think it’s a great time to be a pilot and am glad to see that it’s getting better for new pilots coming in. It’s just annoying to hear constant complaining from people who have it so good so early in their career. If you don’t like how the company is walking all over the FOAG and making language that isn’t in the pilots favour, maybe get a union. If people keep staffing flights and stay at the company the company isn’t going to change. Why would it. They’re here to sell tickets and make money, not make pilots happy.
Also, did anyone really not see this coming? After seeing encore flow to WestJet and Jazz flow to AC, how did you expect Porter to buy 50-100 jets and flow every single Dash 8 pilot in less than 24 months. It’s been less than 2 years since we started flying the jets. People that got here after the jets started flying already think they’re entitled to get off the dash anytime they want. Yes seeing direct entires sucks and the wording for only 3 people a month flowing, getting bypass pay, or DTIP sucks but that’s on our FOAG. The new managers know how to argue wording that benefits them and we’re over our heads.
Yes times have changed, but there’s still people ahead of you in line. So spare me the woe is me god forbid my one year of seniority isn’t being respected I deserve a high paying jet spot right now. Honestly.
It’s a hypothetical made up scenario until it actually happens. 5 years ago, Porter expanding to the size which it currently is was a fantasy as well. So be careful what you say.
“Specific years” of seniority, as you pointed out watching someone “cry because their one year of seniority isn’t respected”, is not relevant. You could have one month of seniority, if 1000 pilots were hired tomorrow (who were coming into the company with similar qualifications as the OP), for a better position, which pays more than yours - you’d be pissed off too. So your “1 year seniority” argument is a moot point.
I feel it may be too late at this point for Porter pilots to unionize. EMB pilots are quickly becoming the majority, and as long as they’re kept happy, there won’t be a union. The EMB pilots certainly do not want hundreds of dash pilots transferring to the jet and going ahead of them for scheduling and bidding purposes. This is the kind of division that the company loves to see. They don’t want a union either.
For that reason it’s hard to NOT sympathize with the Dash pilots. Hindsight is always 20/20 of course, but maybe they should have started the drive to unionize just after this large expansion was announced, BEFORE the EMB pilots were on property.
hsilgnepilot wrote: ↑Thu Dec 21, 2023 9:35 am
The people in here bashing pilots for wanting to have their seniority respected are part of the reason we’re so far behind our peers in the US. If we want to see the industry in Canada get better, we need to start acting like American pilots. We need to stick up for one another and OUR interests.
Imagine saying “well you could be flying a Hawker out of YPL” and “oh complaining about being on a Dash 8 for a year after flight instructing”. Well guess what, times have changed. Just because you might’ve had to 35 years ago, doesn’t reflect the reality of the industry for everyone today.
God forbid a pilot want his seniority to be respected instead of seeing hundreds of pilots hired off the street for a position which he’s interested in within the company. God forbid asking for bypass pay or YOS transfer with pay progression. No, that would make too much sense!
Would you use the same dialogue towards a Rouge pilot whose been on the Airbus for a year, if AC started hiring off the street specifically for the 787 & 777 and hypothetically created a new pay scale which doesn’t include flat pay? Would you tell them they could be flying a Hawker or Dash 8 instead?
I’m the one who used YPL as an example and I highly suggest you go read what I wrote. At no point did I bash this lad, in fact I told him to hang in there and to look at it glass half full as YOU COULD be doing.
hsilgnepilot wrote: ↑Thu Dec 21, 2023 9:35 am
The people in here bashing pilots for wanting to have their seniority respected are part of the reason we’re so far behind our peers in the US. If we want to see the industry in Canada get better, we need to start acting like American pilots. We need to stick up for one another and OUR interests.
Imagine saying “well you could be flying a Hawker out of YPL” and “oh complaining about being on a Dash 8 for a year after flight instructing”. Well guess what, times have changed. Just because you might’ve had to 35 years ago, doesn’t reflect the reality of the industry for everyone today.
God forbid a pilot want his seniority to be respected instead of seeing hundreds of pilots hired off the street for a position which he’s interested in within the company. God forbid asking for bypass pay or YOS transfer with pay progression. No, that would make too much sense!
Would you use the same dialogue towards a Rouge pilot whose been on the Airbus for a year, if AC started hiring off the street specifically for the 787 & 777 and hypothetically created a new pay scale which doesn’t include flat pay? Would you tell them they could be flying a Hawker or Dash 8 instead?
Would I use the same dialogue towards a rouge pilot for some made up scenario that doesn’t exist? I don’t know it’s a made up scenario that doesn’t exist so maybe. If that pilot has been flying for only a couple years.
Believe me, no one wants seniority and YOS respected more than the people that actually had to spend time working for it.
I think it’s a great time to be a pilot and am glad to see that it’s getting better for new pilots coming in. It’s just annoying to hear constant complaining from people who have it so good so early in their career. If you don’t like how the company is walking all over the FOAG and making language that isn’t in the pilots favour, maybe get a union. If people keep staffing flights and stay at the company the company isn’t going to change. Why would it. They’re here to sell tickets and make money, not make pilots happy.
Also, did anyone really not see this coming? After seeing encore flow to WestJet and Jazz flow to AC, how did you expect Porter to buy 50-100 jets and flow every single Dash 8 pilot in less than 24 months. It’s been less than 2 years since we started flying the jets. People that got here after the jets started flying already think they’re entitled to get off the dash anytime they want. Yes seeing direct entires sucks and the wording for only 3 people a month flowing, getting bypass pay, or DTIP sucks but that’s on our FOAG. The new managers know how to argue wording that benefits them and we’re over our heads.
Yes times have changed, but there’s still people ahead of you in line. So spare me the woe is me god forbid my one year of seniority isn’t being respected I deserve a high paying jet spot right now. Honestly.
It’s a hypothetical made up scenario until it actually happens. 5 years ago, Porter expanding to the size which it currently is was a fantasy as well. So be careful what you say.
“Specific years” of seniority, as you pointed out watching someone “cry because their one year of seniority isn’t respected”, is not relevant. You could have one month of seniority, if 1000 pilots were hired tomorrow (who were coming into the company with similar qualifications as the OP), for a better position, which pays more than yours - you’d be pissed off too. So your “1 year seniority” argument is a moot point.
I feel it may be too late at this point for Porter pilots to unionize. EMB pilots are quickly becoming the majority, and as long as they’re kept happy, there won’t be a union. The EMB pilots certainly do not want hundreds of dash pilots transferring to the jet and going ahead of them for scheduling and bidding purposes. This is the kind of division that the company loves to see. They don’t want a union either.
For that reason it’s hard to NOT sympathize with the Dash pilots. Hindsight is always 20/20 of course, but maybe they should have started the drive to unionize just after this large expansion was announced, BEFORE the EMB pilots were on property.
More moot than a made up scenario that doesn’t exist? I’m not arguing that seniority shouldn’t be respected, that’s a straw man you built. I’m arguing that instead of whining you could see how good things are now like they haven’t been, and that you can try to change things. Ie. Union, better FOAG wording.
Their seniority isn’t respected because the company is hiring off the street without completely bleeding the dash 8 dry?
I agree that we need better bypass. Each OTS hire should = one higher seniority dash pilot captain and FO getting bypass pay, not three a month. But as I said our FOAG gets walked all over.
As someone else said it’s not all sunshine and rainbows on the E2 and there are many reasons for a union other than pay and flow. I’m talking scope and merger protection.
Also as for being behind the US. The reason we’re behind is we have one flag carrier that won’t up wages because…. it’s the only one. The US has 3 and they’re all competing so wages are driving up faster. Hopefully ALPA can secure a big win at AC and we will see better wages at every other carrier.
hsilgnepilot wrote: ↑Thu Dec 21, 2023 9:35 am
The people in here bashing pilots for wanting to have their seniority respected are part of the reason we’re so far behind our peers in the US. If we want to see the industry in Canada get better, we need to start acting like American pilots. We need to stick up for one another and OUR interests.
Imagine saying “well you could be flying a Hawker out of YPL” and “oh complaining about being on a Dash 8 for a year after flight instructing”. Well guess what, times have changed. Just because you might’ve had to 35 years ago, doesn’t reflect the reality of the industry for everyone today.
God forbid a pilot want his seniority to be respected instead of seeing hundreds of pilots hired off the street for a position which he’s interested in within the company. God forbid asking for bypass pay or YOS transfer with pay progression. No, that would make too much sense!
Would you use the same dialogue towards a Rouge pilot whose been on the Airbus for a year, if AC started hiring off the street specifically for the 787 & 777 and hypothetically created a new pay scale which doesn’t include flat pay? Would you tell them they could be flying a Hawker or Dash 8 instead?
I’m the one who used YPL as an example and I highly suggest you go read what I wrote. At no point did I bash this lad, in fact I told him to hang in there and to look at it glass half full as YOU COULD be doing.
Respectfully, a glass half full attitude has gotten us no where in this industry in Canada. You’re never gonna get what you truly deserve if you just sit back and tell yourself, “hey well at least I’m not working at Dominos”
hsilgnepilot wrote: ↑Thu Dec 21, 2023 10:06 am
Would you use the same dialogue towards a Rouge pilot whose been on the Airbus for a year, if AC started hiring off the street specifically for the 787 & 777 and hypothetically created a new pay scale which doesn’t include flat pay? Would you tell them they could be flying a Hawker or Dash 8 instead?
Also OTS at AC are getting WB FO seats, but guess what any rogue pilot with seniority who transfers over goes above them and they also get first pick on the equipment bid.
Making up a random pay scale introduction wouldn’t happen without ALPAs say so as well.
Saying because Porter bought jets, which it has been trying to do with the C-series since it’s inception, to AC bringing in a ridiculous policy that wouldn’t get past ALPA isn’t a reasonable
Comparison. So… be careful what you say
Not to try and cause a thread drift but can someone explain to me why Porter pilots haven’t joined ALPA yet? They’re the only ones left in Canada that haven’t.
Would I use the same dialogue towards a rouge pilot for some made up scenario that doesn’t exist? I don’t know it’s a made up scenario that doesn’t exist so maybe. If that pilot has been flying for only a couple years.
Believe me, no one wants seniority and YOS respected more than the people that actually had to spend time working for it.
I think it’s a great time to be a pilot and am glad to see that it’s getting better for new pilots coming in. It’s just annoying to hear constant complaining from people who have it so good so early in their career. If you don’t like how the company is walking all over the FOAG and making language that isn’t in the pilots favour, maybe get a union. If people keep staffing flights and stay at the company the company isn’t going to change. Why would it. They’re here to sell tickets and make money, not make pilots happy.
Also, did anyone really not see this coming? After seeing encore flow to WestJet and Jazz flow to AC, how did you expect Porter to buy 50-100 jets and flow every single Dash 8 pilot in less than 24 months. It’s been less than 2 years since we started flying the jets. People that got here after the jets started flying already think they’re entitled to get off the dash anytime they want. Yes seeing direct entires sucks and the wording for only 3 people a month flowing, getting bypass pay, or DTIP sucks but that’s on our FOAG. The new managers know how to argue wording that benefits them and we’re over our heads.
Yes times have changed, but there’s still people ahead of you in line. So spare me the woe is me god forbid my one year of seniority isn’t being respected I deserve a high paying jet spot right now. Honestly.
It’s a hypothetical made up scenario until it actually happens. 5 years ago, Porter expanding to the size which it currently is was a fantasy as well. So be careful what you say.
“Specific years” of seniority, as you pointed out watching someone “cry because their one year of seniority isn’t respected”, is not relevant. You could have one month of seniority, if 1000 pilots were hired tomorrow (who were coming into the company with similar qualifications as the OP), for a better position, which pays more than yours - you’d be pissed off too. So your “1 year seniority” argument is a moot point.
I feel it may be too late at this point for Porter pilots to unionize. EMB pilots are quickly becoming the majority, and as long as they’re kept happy, there won’t be a union. The EMB pilots certainly do not want hundreds of dash pilots transferring to the jet and going ahead of them for scheduling and bidding purposes. This is the kind of division that the company loves to see. They don’t want a union either.
For that reason it’s hard to NOT sympathize with the Dash pilots. Hindsight is always 20/20 of course, but maybe they should have started the drive to unionize just after this large expansion was announced, BEFORE the EMB pilots were on property.
More moot than a made up scenario that doesn’t exist? I’m not arguing that seniority shouldn’t be respected, that’s a straw man you built. I’m arguing that instead of whining you could see how good things are now like they haven’t been, and that you can try to change things. Ie. Union, better FOAG wording.
Their seniority isn’t respected because the company is hiring off the street without completely bleeding the dash 8 dry?
I agree that we need better bypass. Each OTS hire should = one higher seniority dash pilot captain and FO getting bypass pay, not three a month. But as I said our FOAG gets walked all over.
As someone else said it’s not all sunshine and rainbows on the E2 and there are many reasons for a union other than pay and flow. I’m talking scope and merger protection.
Also as for being behind the US. The reason we’re behind is we have one flag carrier that won’t up wages because…. it’s the only one. The US has 3 and they’re all competing so wages are driving up faster. Hopefully ALPA can secure a big win at AC and we will see better wages at every other carrier.
Seems now you’re starting to make some sense and change your tone a bit.
I agree with what most of you’re saying. I’ve never argued for bleeding the dash dry, but as we’ve both mentioned there are certainly provisions which are not in place that would keep people content. THIS is why people are complaining. Believe me, OP is well aware that it is a good time to be a pilot and that we have it better off than the older generation - but that doesn’t make it perfect.
Although for reasons I’ve mentioned, I think unfortunately the ship has sailed for a union at Porter - at least in the short/medium term. Without representation, the company will continue to do whatever it wants, so you can’t blame people for being on edge.
I agree ACPA historically certainly hasn’t helped us at all, and join you in hoping that AC pilots in their next CA set the bar to where it should be.
hsilgnepilot wrote: ↑Thu Dec 21, 2023 10:06 am
Would you use the same dialogue towards a Rouge pilot whose been on the Airbus for a year, if AC started hiring off the street specifically for the 787 & 777 and hypothetically created a new pay scale which doesn’t include flat pay? Would you tell them they could be flying a Hawker or Dash 8 instead?
Also OTS at AC are getting WB FO seats, but guess what any rogue pilot with seniority who transfers over goes above them and they also get first pick on the equipment bid.
Making up a random pay scale introduction wouldn’t happen without ALPAs say so as well.
Saying because Porter bought jets, which it has been trying to do with the C-series since it’s inception, to AC bringing in a ridiculous policy that wouldn’t get past ALPA isn’t a reasonable
Comparison. So… be careful what you say
As I mentioned it was a hypothetical scenario. Of course ALPA wouldn’t approve it, wouldn’t be shocked if their previous regime would’ve allowed something like it though.
hsilgnepilot wrote: ↑Thu Dec 21, 2023 10:38 am
Although for reasons I’ve mentioned, I think unfortunately the ship has sailed for a union at Porter - at least in the short/medium term.
I respectfully disagree with you. As we hire more and more DECs on the E2 I think you'll find that most are coming from airlines that had unions. So I only see the likelihood of a union increasing as we hire more and more industry-experienced pilots.
I'm happy to hear counter arguments as I don't know shit.
PropDog wrote: ↑Thu Dec 21, 2023 9:52 am
Yes times have changed, but there’s still people ahead of you in line. So spare me the woe is me god forbid my one year of seniority isn’t being respected I deserve a high paying jet spot right now. Honestly.
PropDog I understand what you're saying and agree with you on a lot of your points. But we need to take into account the current reality of the pilot market in Canada. There are people flying the E2 that WERE flying 172s one and a bit years ago. We are filling classes with ex Jazz and Encore guys. Instructors that flew the E1 for 6 months and came here. Or guys on the Q for a year.
I have a colleague that started with me at my last 703. We left at the same time, he went to Jazz on the Q, I came to Porter. Now after a year on the Q there, he's here on the E2. By the time I get to the E2 (if allowed), he will be 1-2 scales of pay ahead of me. Another former colleague who instructed, flew the E1 just enough to finish line indoc, and is starting here in January.
People are just understandably irritated that the faster route to the so called "high paying jet spot" would have been by going to another company. Going back to the upgrade issue, captains openly saying on the line that they are thinking of quitting, or trainers saying they don't think it's worth upgrading on the Q certainly don't help the situation. I don't think there's anything wrong with advocating for proper compensation, that's how changes get made, either it be through the FOAG or a union. Like I said, many of us would happily stay on the Q if there was an eventual YOS transfer or bypass pay.
PropDog wrote: ↑Thu Dec 21, 2023 9:52 am
Yes times have changed, but there’s still people ahead of you in line. So spare me the woe is me god forbid my one year of seniority isn’t being respected I deserve a high paying jet spot right now. Honestly.
PropDog I understand what you're saying and agree with you on a lot of your points. But we need to take into account the current reality of the pilot market in Canada. There are people flying the E2 that WERE flying 172s one and a bit years ago. We are filling classes with ex Jazz and Encore guys. Instructors that flew the E1 for 6 months and came here. Or guys on the Q for a year.
I have a colleague that started with me at my last 703. We left at the same time, he went to Jazz on the Q, I came to Porter. Now after a year on the Q there, he's here on the E2. By the time I get to the E2 (if allowed), he will be 1-2 scales of pay ahead of me. Another former colleague who instructed, flew the E1 just enough to finish line indoc, and is starting here in January.
People are just understandably irritated that the faster route to the so called "high paying jet spot" would have been by going to another company. Going back to the upgrade issue, captains openly saying on the line that they are thinking of quitting, or trainers saying they don't think it's worth upgrading on the Q certainly don't help the situation. I don't think there's anything wrong with advocating for proper compensation, that's how changes get made, either it be through the FOAG or a union. Like I said, many of us would happily stay on the Q if there was an eventual YOS transfer or bypass pay.
Okay that’s fair. Sorry, sometimes I get a little trigger happy when I see people complaining, it’s a little frustrating but I need to cool my heels sometimes.
The company has openly said they expect people to flow from the Q to the E2. They see it as a stepping stone and honestly so do the pilots here. For that reason the company isn’t going to up pay or QOL. I think YOS needs to be a thing absolutely because eventually the E2 will be staffed and transferring captain to captain won’t be a thing. With the way things are a 5-6 year Q captain transferring to year 1 FO is a huge pay cut. However going to 5-6 year FO is actually a pay bump.
The difference between 5 years as Q captain and 5 years as E2 FO is only 30k and Q captain is a lot more personal liability/responsibility so yeah. Is it worth it? Probably not, but taking a Q upgrade is quick up front cash. The pay is good especially since everyone is blocking 85-90 hours without a single GDO.
As far as people going straight onto the jet with the same amount of time, I have to say that’s just bad luck. Everyone who has a seniority number junior to 4000 and something is experiencing that. We will need a union if we want to have a stronger position for pay, flow and YOS. The FOAG is a courtesy by the company that they can follow if they feel like. We will NEVER be on even footing.
The only consolation is when you do transfer to the E2 in however long you will have seniority on that person. Better vacay, better bidding, quicker upgrade.
No union required at the Moment. Everyone gotta let the dust settle and wait for the entire Canadian aviation industry to defrost itself. Let’s see what AC got to offer, then sort out the contract.
I see it all the time on the line, everyone is racing everywhere. Chill, we will get to the runway, and once airborne we will sort out whatever we need to do.
The time for a union is not today. At least at porter: maybe tomorrow.
CaptDukeNukem wrote: ↑Thu Dec 21, 2023 1:50 pm
No union required at the Moment. Everyone gotta let the dust settle and wait for the entire Canadian aviation industry to defrost itself. Let’s see what AC got to offer, then sort out the contract.
I see it all the time on the line, everyone is racing everywhere. Chill, we will get to the runway, and once airborne we will sort out whatever we need to do.
The time for a union is not today. At least at porter: maybe tomorrow.
CaptDukeNukem wrote: ↑Thu Dec 21, 2023 1:50 pm
No union required at the Moment. Everyone gotta let the dust settle and wait for the entire Canadian aviation industry to defrost itself. Let’s see what AC got to offer, then sort out the contract.
I see it all the time on the line, everyone is racing everywhere. Chill, we will get to the runway, and once airborne we will sort out whatever we need to do.
The time for a union is not today. At least at porter: maybe tomorrow.
The only problem with that logic is a union takes a lot of time to put in place.
Waiting until we actually desperately need one before we start, it’s already too late.
It’s like waiting to buy life insurance until after you’re dead. Too late.
CaptDukeNukem wrote: ↑Thu Dec 21, 2023 1:50 pm
No union required at the Moment. Everyone gotta let the dust settle and wait for the entire Canadian aviation industry to defrost itself. Let’s see what AC got to offer, then sort out the contract.
I see it all the time on the line, everyone is racing everywhere. Chill, we will get to the runway, and once airborne we will sort out whatever we need to do.
The time for a union is not today. At least at porter: maybe tomorrow.
Disagree. Became time for a union the moment we decided to embark on this expansion (certainly before the PACL & PAI horses were out of the barn but too late for that). What are we dusting and defrosting ourselves from anyway? its about being proactive and getting ahead so that the protection is in place before shit hits the fan.
CaptDukeNukem wrote: ↑Thu Dec 21, 2023 1:50 pm
No union required at the Moment. Everyone gotta let the dust settle and wait for the entire Canadian aviation industry to defrost itself. Let’s see what AC got to offer, then sort out the contract.
I see it all the time on the line, everyone is racing everywhere. Chill, we will get to the runway, and once airborne we will sort out whatever we need to do.
The time for a union is not today. At least at porter: maybe tomorrow.
Disagree. Became time for a union the moment we decided to embark on this expansion (certainly before the PACL & PAI horses were out of the barn but too late for that). What are we dusting and defrosting ourselves from anyway? its about being proactive and getting ahead so that the protection is in place before shit hits the fan.
Yep absolutely. Porter is a great place to work. A union isn’t about destroying the company or is vs them. It’s working together to make a great company a better place to work. Right now there’s a lot to be desired and it’s obvious that management is having a great time manipulating the wording in the FOAG that they themselves dictated to the committee.
hsilgnepilot wrote: ↑Thu Dec 21, 2023 10:38 am
Although for reasons I’ve mentioned, I think unfortunately the ship has sailed for a union at Porter - at least in the short/medium term.
I respectfully disagree with you. As we hire more and more DECs on the E2 I think you'll find that most are coming from airlines that had unions. So I only see the likelihood of a union increasing as we hire more and more industry-experienced pilots.
I'm happy to hear counter arguments as I don't know shit.
Hopefully you’re right, as I mentioned though, “short to medium term”.
CaptDukeNukem wrote: ↑Thu Dec 21, 2023 1:50 pm
No union required at the Moment. Everyone gotta let the dust settle and wait for the entire Canadian aviation industry to defrost itself. Let’s see what AC got to offer, then sort out the contract.
I see it all the time on the line, everyone is racing everywhere. Chill, we will get to the runway, and once airborne we will sort out whatever we need to do.
The time for a union is not today. At least at porter: maybe tomorrow.
Disagree. Became time for a union the moment we decided to embark on this expansion (certainly before the PACL & PAI horses were out of the barn but too late for that). What are we dusting and defrosting ourselves from anyway? its about being proactive and getting ahead so that the protection is in place before shit hits the fan.
Yep absolutely. Porter is a great place to work. A union isn’t about destroying the company or is vs them. It’s working together to make a great company a better place to work. Right now there’s a lot to be desired and it’s obvious that management is having a great time manipulating the wording in the FOAG that they themselves dictated to the committee.
I don’t work for Porter but I have also only heard mostly good things. Hopefully the ship gets steered the right way again.
CaptDukeNukem wrote: ↑Thu Dec 21, 2023 1:50 pm
No union required at the Moment. Everyone gotta let the dust settle and wait for the entire Canadian aviation industry to defrost itself. Let’s see what AC got to offer, then sort out the contract.
I see it all the time on the line, everyone is racing everywhere. Chill, we will get to the runway, and once airborne we will sort out whatever we need to do.
The time for a union is not today. At least at porter: maybe tomorrow.
Wrong. Setting up organized labour takes a long time. Once done the first agreement is usually about 1.5-2 years out. In that time the company CANNOT make random work rule changes to benefit itself. If it wishes to do so, the PILOTS get a vote.
Once it comes into play, protections like Scope (Joint Ventures) come into play. Don’t need it, ask buddies at TS how their domestic growth is going and upgrade times since our agreement with TS was announced.
As mentioned, when organized labour is needed, it’s too late.
Why not stand up for the industry and have a real voice and negotiate to make things better. Most that don’t want it are happy that others will walk the walk to get your bench mark up, but why not earn it and fight for it.
Also, many from Sky Reg bash ALPA, let’s not forget that if it wasn’t for ALPA everyone at SKY would have gone bottom of the Jazz list as a year 1 pilot but that didn’t happen.
CaptDukeNukem wrote: ↑Thu Dec 21, 2023 1:50 pm
No union required at the Moment. Everyone gotta let the dust settle and wait for the entire Canadian aviation industry to defrost itself. Let’s see what AC got to offer, then sort out the contract.
I see it all the time on the line, everyone is racing everywhere. Chill, we will get to the runway, and once airborne we will sort out whatever we need to do.
The time for a union is not today. At least at porter: maybe tomorrow.
Wrong. Setting up organized labour takes a long time. Once done the first agreement is usually about 1.5-2 years out. In that time the company CANNOT make random work rule changes to benefit itself. If it wishes to do so, the PILOTS get a vote.
Once it comes into play, protections like Scope (Joint Ventures) come into play. Don’t need it, ask buddies at TS how their domestic growth is going and upgrade times since our agreement with TS was announced.
As mentioned, when organized labour is needed, it’s too late.
Why not stand up for the industry and have a real voice and negotiate to make things better. Most that don’t want it are happy that others will walk the walk to get your bench mark up, but why not earn it and fight for it.
Also, many from Sky Reg bash ALPA, let’s not forget that if it wasn’t for ALPA everyone at SKY would have gone bottom of the Jazz list as a year 1 pilot but that didn’t happen.
Correct. Very correct. Went through the whole ALPA card drive at PAL, from signing the card myself, to the time CA1 came into place was over 3 years.
