I'm a little surprised that your scheduling rules allow this.
You've never had crew sched call you asking you to take a trip that would make you illegal for your next scheduled pairing? They'll worry about that next pairing later, they have fires to put out at that moment.
You cannot pick up pairings in Opentime that make you illegal to operate your schedule. Crew sked has the ability to do this if they are desperate enough but you cannot do it on your own. Your request to pick up the OT will simply be denied for whatever reason makes you illegal for your next pairing.
That's understood, but crew sched does have the ability and it happens quite often. This is why I always list myself for OT, but only take it when in drops a pairing. Why pass up the opportunity to make more and work less.
You've never had crew sched call you asking you to take a trip that would make you illegal for your next scheduled pairing? They'll worry about that next pairing later, they have fires to put out at that moment.
You cannot pick up pairings in Opentime that make you illegal to operate your schedule. Crew sked has the ability to do this if they are desperate enough but you cannot do it on your own. Your request to pick up the OT will simply be denied for whatever reason makes you illegal for your next pairing.
That's understood, but crew sched does have the ability and it happens quite often. This is why I always list myself for OT, but only take it when in drops a pairing. Why pass up the opportunity to make more and work less.
You cannot list AVAILABLE anymore. This is in CA2. It is so Opentime is fair and transparent. First come, first serve, thus the reason bots were being used. All Opentime must be picked up by the crew member through FLICA.
The only time your example will happen in the future is when CrewSked is in urgent need and is cold calling.
You cannot pick up pairings in Opentime that make you illegal to operate your schedule. Crew sked has the ability to do this if they are desperate enough but you cannot do it on your own. Your request to pick up the OT will simply be denied for whatever reason makes you illegal for your next pairing.
That's understood, but crew sched does have the ability and it happens quite often. This is why I always list myself for OT, but only take it when in drops a pairing. Why pass up the opportunity to make more and work less.
You cannot list AVAILABLE anymore. This is in CA2. It is so Opentime is fair and transparent. First come, first serve, thus the reason bots were being used. All Opentime must be picked up by the crew member through FLICA.
The only time your example will happen in the future is when CrewSked is in urgent need and is cold calling.
Ahh fair enough, not like at my shop. I can still list myself although things are changing fast these days. Wouldn't surprise me if that goes.
I'm a little surprised that your scheduling rules allow this.
You've never had crew sched call you asking you to take a trip that would make you illegal for your next scheduled pairing? They'll worry about that next pairing later, they have fires to put out at that moment.
You cannot pick up pairings in Opentime that make you illegal to operate your schedule. Crew sked has the ability to do this if they are desperate enough but you cannot do it on your own. Your request to pick up the OT will simply be denied for whatever reason makes you illegal for your next pairing.
That's what I was referring to. Obviously if it's to the company's advantage, they will allow it. But it doesn't make sense to be able to pick up 88 hrs of OT in a month, while violating your scheduled pairings.
You've never had crew sched call you asking you to take a trip that would make you illegal for your next scheduled pairing? They'll worry about that next pairing later, they have fires to put out at that moment.
You cannot pick up pairings in Opentime that make you illegal to operate your schedule. Crew sked has the ability to do this if they are desperate enough but you cannot do it on your own. Your request to pick up the OT will simply be denied for whatever reason makes you illegal for your next pairing.
That's what I was referring to. Obviously if it's to the company's advantage, they will allow it. But it doesn't make sense to be able to pick up 88 hrs of OT in a month, while violating your scheduled pairings.
While his situation is definitely an outlier, it's not difficult to be strategic. I've gotten close to 40 hours of OT by doing what I mentioned previously without even trying. I worked less than initially scheduled that month all while making considerably more than MMG.
Didn’t flica have a subscription you could pay for that would notify you if something came in open?
Of course, I’m not sure if it would pick it up for you or just notify you which means you’d have to be available to get it assigned to you.
cdnavater wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 1:38 pm
Didn’t flica have a subscription you could pay for that would notify you if something came in open?
Of course, I’m not sure if it would pick it up for you or just notify you which means you’d have to be available to get it assigned to you.
Yes its $14US a month for the alerts which is hefty for the gabrage interface Flica provide. Not even an app yet.
For all the warnings "you risk losing Flica access if caught" I don't think Flica cares about bots, and WJ certainly doesn't care. So I think it will be impossible to police.
The luck of the draw, open system is so strange to me. I’m not looking forward to it. Why not have the ability to list yourself available and then get notifications on open flights.
I'm sure WJ doesn't give a fiddler's fart about the bots, but I'd be surprised CAE doesn't care. These bots render Flica alerts useless, discouraging people from paying the subscription fee and, in turn, robbing CAE of revenue. They care.
The company cares about the bots. They are testing a way (or 2) to make the bots less effective. We will see how long it takes the programmers of the bots to circumvent that new system.
daedalusx wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2023 8:38 pm
This hustle culture needs to die.
How sad that pilots feels like they need to buy a bot in order to work more. As if working 16 days isn’t enough already.
Indeed it is. What's more sad is that a townhouse in Toronto costs $850,000. Pilots are not to blame. Those who got us into this situation (where most Canadians have to work extra, be it OT or a 2nd job) are to blame.
Airbrake wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 9:43 pm
The company cares about the bots.
Do you know why? One would think the company would be happy that any open flying is picked up asap.
It would be speculation on my part to their reasons.
I would thinks CARs would be a concern of theirs. If a handful of pilots are getting all the open time, there is a real possibility that those few will start hitting flight time limitations which would mean the company would need to give them time off (paid) in future months creating the need for even more over time. 1000 hours isn’t hard to hit if you’re a workaholic.
cdnavater wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 1:38 pm
Didn’t flica have a subscription you could pay for that would notify you if something came in open?
Of course, I’m not sure if it would pick it up for you or just notify you which means you’d have to be available to get it assigned to you.
Yes its $14US a month for the alerts which is hefty for the gabrage interface Flica provide. Not even an app yet.
For all the warnings "you risk losing Flica access if caught" I don't think Flica cares about bots, and WJ certainly doesn't care. So I think it will be impossible to police.
It’s funny that some complain about the $14 alert cost but have no trouble paying up to $500, so I’ve heard, for a bot! It’s like driving to the US for a $50 cheaper fare but paying gas and hotel to get there.
ant_321 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 3:17 pm
The luck of the draw, open system is so strange to me. I’m not looking forward to it. Why not have the ability to list yourself available and then get notifications on open flights.
It used to be like this to an extent. The problem was that in some instances there wasn't a lot of transparency. People listed available and there wasn't really a specific order or oversight as to who Crew Sched would call.
The Open Time Call out system is still a bit of a work in progress. While "bots" makes things easy to blame, you can find out pretty easily who is picking up the Open Time pairings by simply searching the pairing number after it's been assigned. On the pairings that I've missed out on, it wasn't one individual getting all the flying - every pick up was by a difference pilot.
The Company and the ALPA Scheduling Committee can likely find out the information as well.
The current FLICA alerts system allows you to filter many items, so you can have specific criteria on the open time where an alert will come out or not.
ant_321 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 3:17 pm
The luck of the draw, open system is so strange to me. I’m not looking forward to it. Why not have the ability to list yourself available and then get notifications on open flights.
It used to be like this to an extent. The problem was that in some instances there wasn't a lot of transparency. People listed available and there wasn't really a specific order or oversight as to who Crew Sched would call.
The Open Time Call out system is still a bit of a work in progress. While "bots" makes things easy to blame, you can find out pretty easily who is picking up the Open Time pairings by simply searching the pairing number after it's been assigned. On the pairings that I've missed out on, it wasn't one individual getting all the flying - every pick up was by a difference pilot.
The Company and the ALPA Scheduling Committee can likely find out the information as well.
The current FLICA alerts system allows you to filter many items, so you can have specific criteria on the open time where an alert will come out or not.
Issue is alerts are delayed, compared to when an open time pairing is posted. So only way to pick up productive pairings is either be on the Flica page all day or use a bot.
However, if you are able to pick up pairings fairly easily with alerts please dm me with how you do it. I have yet to figure it out.
ant_321 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 3:17 pm
The luck of the draw, open system is so strange to me. I’m not looking forward to it. Why not have the ability to list yourself available and then get notifications on open flights.
It used to be like this to an extent. The problem was that in some instances there wasn't a lot of transparency. People listed available and there wasn't really a specific order or oversight as to who Crew Sched would call.
The Open Time Call out system is still a bit of a work in progress. While "bots" makes things easy to blame, you can find out pretty easily who is picking up the Open Time pairings by simply searching the pairing number after it's been assigned. On the pairings that I've missed out on, it wasn't one individual getting all the flying - every pick up was by a difference pilot.
The Company and the ALPA Scheduling Committee can likely find out the information as well.
The current FLICA alerts system allows you to filter many items, so you can have specific criteria on the open time where an alert will come out or not.
Issue is alerts are delayed, compared to when an open time pairing is posted. So only way to pick up productive pairings is either be on the Flica page all day or use a bot.
However, if you are able to pick up pairings fairly easily with alerts please dm me with how you do it. I have yet to figure it out.
Thing about that is, you are buying OT with a bot, essentially an unfair disadvantage to those who don’t. If everyone had a bot who would have the advantage then, quickest bot.
To level the playing field, you should disable all bots and the Flica alert. This way, to get OT you have to check the app and decide if you want it, it becomes luck of the draw.
Originally, it was the Flica alert the gave an unfair advantage and then as subscriptions to that increased the perceived need for a bot.
I remember wondering why there was never any OT when I went looking, to find out about the alert feature to which I said screw that. Of course you ask someone who has it and they say one OT pairing more than offsets the cost, anyhow I would prefer to make more without OT or the need to spend my own money.
Flica alerts are not very effective anyway. They are delayed by up to 5 minutes after open time is posted. So no advantage there anyway. I agree bots should be disabled. I have seen in pprune up to 200 pilots and flight attendants were fired at JetBlue after the company compared employee schedules to the time stamp when they picked up. If the time stamp was when they were flying, they obviously violated Flica rules by giving someone else or a bot their user credentials.
canadian_aviator_4 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 26, 2023 9:33 pm
Flica alerts are not very effective anyway. They are delayed by up to 5 minutes after open time is posted. So no advantage there anyway. I agree bots should be disabled. I have seen in pprune up to 200 pilots and flight attendants were fired at JetBlue after the company compared employee schedules to the time stamp when they picked up. If the time stamp was when they were flying, they obviously violated Flica rules by giving someone else or a bot their user credentials.
Unless you have reliable ultra fast wifi on board?
The use of bots is against the flica user agreement. They can track number of logins, IP addresses and method of site entry (bots leave the same bread crumbs each time they refresh) for each login and will be suspending users found to be violating the agreement in the near future. No flica access equals no overtime. Hope it was worth the bot investment. Source: I called cae/flica and asked how they plan on dealing with users violating their terms. It also bogs down their servers which is something they have an interest in controlling.
truecolours wrote: ↑Wed Dec 27, 2023 6:21 am
The use of bots is against the flica user agreement. They can track number of logins, IP addresses and method of site entry (bots leave the same bread crumbs each time they refresh) for each login and will be suspending users found to be violating the agreement in the near future. No flica access equals no overtime. Hope it was worth the bot investment. Source: I called cae/flica and asked how they plan on dealing with users violating their terms. It also bogs down their servers which is something they have an interest in controlling.
I am sure that will be very successful. After all, history has shown us that fighting new technology is easy: there are no scammers anymore on Facebook, no fake profiles on Twitter and obviously no email spam anymore
---------- ADS -----------
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
ant_321 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2023 3:17 pm
The luck of the draw, open system is so strange to me. I’m not looking forward to it. Why not have the ability to list yourself available and then get notifications on open flights.
It used to be like this to an extent. The problem was that in some instances there wasn't a lot of transparency. People listed available and there wasn't really a specific order or oversight as to who Crew Sched would call.
The Open Time Call out system is still a bit of a work in progress. While "bots" makes things easy to blame, you can find out pretty easily who is picking up the Open Time pairings by simply searching the pairing number after it's been assigned. On the pairings that I've missed out on, it wasn't one individual getting all the flying - every pick up was by a difference pilot.
The Company and the ALPA Scheduling Committee can likely find out the information as well.
The current FLICA alerts system allows you to filter many items, so you can have specific criteria on the open time where an alert will come out or not.
Issue is alerts are delayed, compared to when an open time pairing is posted. So only way to pick up productive pairings is either be on the Flica page all day or use a bot.
However, if you are able to pick up pairings fairly easily with alerts please dm me with how you do it. I have yet to figure it out.
I think bases matter. YYC has lots of locals whereas YYZ has more commuters so slightly less competition. I'm a YYZ Capt and I've been able to get OT in the last few months. I've had change what I'm looking for. Before I would list AVA and I was looking for 1 days. Now those are hard to get so I've been looking for multi days . The multi day pairings are harder to fit into guys skeds so they sit on Flica longer. I also get the flica alerts. My personal situation also allows a very flexible sked. I don't require wekends off for instance and my kids have all moved out. So if I'm off on a weekend in the winter I'm looking for OT. Just my thoughts
