How long til $100k?

[co-joe]

16 years in the biz for me to break 100k. It blows me away how many online videos there are of the top 10 or top 15 high paying jobs in Canada and pilot is never even mentioned. I though it was in the top 3 highest paying jobs at some point in history, now it's not even in the top 15? Remind people of that when CBC stuffs a mic in your face on the picket line and asks you why you are worth so much.

[rudder]

CPL in the early 1980’s.

$100k in year 2000. That is $169k in year 2023 dollars.

$200k in year 2015. That is $249k in year 2023 dollars.

$250k in year 2020. That is $288k in year 2023 dollars.

T4 income has either flatlined or declined since 2020.

Treating $100k as a ‘benchmark’ in aviation is as outdated as the $100k benchmark for the Sunshine List generated in most provinces.

The reality is that most pilots in Canada have been losing ground to inflation for most of their careers. And $100k living in Vancouver/Toronto is basically ‘rent’ income. Ownership is not an option.

I do not feel sorry for a 25 year old that says “I don’t earn enough to be a home owner”. But I do feel sorry for a 35 year old that says so.

If you have 10+ years in to this vocation then you should either be earning $100-150k (703 CA) or be within 2 years (get off flat pay) of doing so. If there is a 705 CA that is not making $150k then your employer is not paying market rate for 2023.

[Ash Ketchum]

Lets hope flat pays ceases to exist soon. In my opinion no airline pilot at a major airline in this country (AC, WJ, Transat) should make under 100K from year one. Getting to a major airline can easily take 5-10 years and is not an entry level job however the pay is entry level. I made more as an entry level, new grad engineer with minimal responsibility in 2013 (not even accounting for inflation) than I currently do as an FO at a major Canadian airline with 8 years commercial flying experience, ATPL and 4000 flight hours.

[rookiepilot]

CPL in the early 1980’s.

$100k in year 2000. That is $169k in year 2023 dollars.

$200k in year 2015. That is $249k in year 2023 dollars.

$250k in year 2020. That is $288k in year 2023 dollars.

T4 income has either flatlined or declined since 2020.

Treating $100k as a ‘benchmark’ in aviation is as outdated as the $100k benchmark for the Sunshine List generated in most provinces.

The reality is that most pilots in Canada have been losing ground to inflation for most of their careers. And $100k living in Vancouver/Toronto is basically ‘rent’ income. Ownership is not an option.

I do not feel sorry for a 25 year old that says “I don’t earn enough to be a home owner”. But I do feel sorry for a 35 year old that says so.

If you have 10+ years in to this vocation then you should either be earning $100-150k (703 CA) or be within 2 years (get off flat pay) of doing so. If there is a 705 CA that is not making $150k then your employer is not paying market rate for 2023.

How does the math work if, or when, deflation takes hold?

[rudder]

CPL in the early 1980’s.

$100k in year 2000. That is $169k in year 2023 dollars.

$200k in year 2015. That is $249k in year 2023 dollars.

$250k in year 2020. That is $288k in year 2023 dollars.

T4 income has either flatlined or declined since 2020.

Treating $100k as a ‘benchmark’ in aviation is as outdated as the $100k benchmark for the Sunshine List generated in most provinces.

The reality is that most pilots in Canada have been losing ground to inflation for most of their careers. And $100k living in Vancouver/Toronto is basically ‘rent’ income. Ownership is not an option.

I do not feel sorry for a 25 year old that says “I don’t earn enough to be a home owner”. But I do feel sorry for a 35 year old that says so.

If you have 10+ years in to this vocation then you should either be earning $100-150k (703 CA) or be within 2 years (get off flat pay) of doing so. If there is a 705 CA that is not making $150k then your employer is not paying market rate for 2023.

How does the math work if, or when, deflation takes hold?

I have not seen a forecast from any credible economist suggesting deflation is on its way. There had been talk of stagflation, but even that has passed.

People dream about a housing price crash (at least those that do not currently own homes). That is as likely as the price of a new car dropping by 25%.

Prices are set by supply and demand. Demand remains strong in many areas, at least strong enough that slashing prices to move inventory - any inventory - has not happened yet. In production based industries, any sign of price softening will simply be met by a reduction in production rate.

Retailers may see a soft Xmas shopping season as household discretionary income has shrunk for households with debt denominated at current rates. Rates are going to decline (but not to historical levels) over the next 24 months. If you want to see what you will be paying for a 5 year mortgage rate, just look at the yield trend in 10 year treasury bonds.

For those that have been in the industry for the last 20 years, it has been more about falling behind than making gains. Even pay rate bumps of the last 24 months are barely marking a return to pay rates from one to two decades past.

Upgrades, overtime, one time bonuses are not ‘raises’, they are simply an increase in gross pay. What pilots are looking for in 2023 (2024) are raises in pay rates that restore prior inflation adjusted rates and avoid further backsliding in purchasing power.

When you layer on top of that the now REAL shortage of commercial pilots (with the projection of worsening supply rates), it is a SELLER’S MARKET.

The BUYERS need to start paying attention to that. The smaller players (who were affected first) have (for the most part) responded. It is time for the bigger players to join the party in a meaningful way.

[DanWEC]

Well said. This concept of impending crash has been around since I learned to read. Granted I was 14, but still....
I firmly believe with each event or recession in Canada there's an element of adaptation, and in my entire lifetime, it's always been a soft landing instead of the sky falling. Always. A large part is the luxury of seeing trends happening in Europe and the US prior to here for some reason.
Anyhow, that's all external to what's going on here. On a fundamental level, you've got a pilot supply and demand issue that should dictate the exact opposite of what happened in the last 20 years of oversupply.

[UggaDugga]

Any AMEs wanna weigh in here?

[GooseDriver]

Started first ramp job with 200 hrs and a CPL at the beginning of 2014. Ten years, 4 companies and 6000 hours later, will finish 2023 at $214k on the T4.

[PersonPersonson]

2017- Medevac Fo -36k
2018- 705 Fo- 58k
2019- 703 CA- 70k
2020- CERB
2021- 703 CA 65k
2022- 703 CA 115k
2023- Corporate FO 105k

[Sulako]

1997 - Dispatcher @ $8/hr (No extra overtime pay) in Stony Rapids SK - made more than half of the pilots due to working ~300 hours/mo
1998 - Beech Baron Capt - $2,000/mo plus 2 percent of charter revenue. My first ever revenue flight earned me 98 cents
1998 - Beech Baron Capt/CP - $35k/yr
2001 - CERB
2002 - MU2 FO - $35k/yr
2004 - CERB
2005 - Citation II FO - $45k/yr
2005 - Citation II Captain/DFO - $75k/yr
2010 - Citation II Captain/DFO - $100k/yr
2014 - Citation Ultra Captain/DFO - $125k/yr
2017 - Citation Excel Captain/DFO - $130k/yr
2020 - CERB
2021 - Challenger 601 Capt/DFO - $120k/yr
2022 - Chief Pilot (large 604/704 operator) - $130k/yr
2023 - Global Captain - $230k/yr

It took me 13 years to 100k. It seemed like such a huge sum at the time, but now housing and food costs are so insane - I live in the Toronto area - that I wouldn't be able to afford my relatively modest existence on 100k. The Ontario takehome pay calculator tells me that's $2,693 every two weeks and it would be a significant challenge to live in Toronto without having a bunch of roommates - or wives

[100461471]

.

[wallypilot]

One thing hard to put a price on is how much you like what you’re doing. I’ve been flying corporate jets for over 15 years now, and though it hasn’t always been smooth I sailing from the employment point of view, there has rarely been a day on which i didn’t enjoy going to work. That’s more and more true as you get older and have less patience for all the organizational BS that inevitably occurs at every job. When the door closes and we’re on our way (sometimes a less than fun place, but more often a place that people pay to go to on vacation) in a super high tech cutting edge kit of aviation technology, I always feel, every time, there’s nothing I’d rather do. Maybe I could make $500k as a stock broker or surgeon, or dentist. But flying corporate jets is way more fun.

To answer the OP: year 1 is 1998

Year 1 probably 25k as instructor
Year 2 36K as survey pilot
Year 3-8 44k working up to 54k
Year 9 60k Medevac king air Captain
Year 10 55k Lear FO
year 12 83k Lear capt / CL64 FO
Year 14 100k challenger 300 capt
Year 17-21 140k to 175k heavy biz jet capt
Year 22 120k (Covid BS)
Year 23 200+ Heavy Int’l biz jet capt

[bannerdance]

2018: Season on a C185 on floats making 3k gross per month based on a rez. Room but no board.
2019: DH8 FO making around 35k.
2022: Beaver making $300 daily rate.
2023: C208 Captain (not in Canada) at 121k CAD,

[goldeneagle]

1998 - Beech Baron Capt - $2,000/mo plus 2 percent of charter revenue. My first ever revenue flight earned me 98 cents

I can see your $0.98 and lower it to a nickel.

In 1983 I took a summer position. First flight was a charter on wheels, paid a nickel a mile above base pay. I got a call on the radio when I had taxi halfway down the runway for departure, come back to the ramp. When I got there, owner met me, said a phone call just came in to cancel the trip. He reached into his pocket, pulled out a nickel, said 'you were about a half mile down the runway when we turned you, so a mile total on this trip, dont let anybody ever tell you I dont pay the pilots'.

[Me262]

2023: C208 Captain (not in Canada) at 121k CAD,

Where?

[Tbayer2021]

2023: C208 Captain (not in Canada) at 121k CAD,

Where?

Many fedex feeders pay that much and more down there.

[2112]

Definitely took the scenic route to 100k...
CPL in 08- 2 years ramping for 30k.
2010-2011- Skydive flying in the summer for 2k/mo.
2012- C-206 Bush flying, 36k.
2013-2015 Caravan/Navajo, 60k
2016-2017 Another Caravan job, 72k.
2017-2018 Medevac F/O 45k
2018-Medevac Capt 101k
2019-Medevac Capt 110k
2020 Medevac Capt 113k
2021 Medevac Capt 122k
2022 Medevac Capt. 105k
2023 604 Op,CJ2 Capt. 120k

100k used to be a pretty stellar salary back in the day but it doesn't get you that far in this economy. I think 200k is becoming the benchmark of the next decade and we should all be setting our sights there.

[Col. Panic]

Definitely took the scenic route to 100k...
CPL in 08- 2 years ramping for 30k.
2010-2011- Skydive flying in the summer for 2k/mo.
2012- C-206 Bush flying, 36k.
2013-2015 Caravan/Navajo, 60k
2016-2017 Another Caravan job, 72k.
2017-2018 Medevac F/O 45k
2018-Medevac Capt 101k
2019-Medevac Capt 110k
2020 Medevac Capt 113k
2021 Medevac Capt 122k
2022 Medevac Capt. 105k
2023 604 Op,CJ2 Capt. 120k

100k used to be a pretty stellar salary back in the day but it doesn't get you that far in this economy. I think 200k is becoming the benchmark of the next decade and we should all be setting our sights there.

I’m surprised, based on your username, that you didn’t Rush into it!

[rookiepilot]

.

[laminar]

This is depressing to read. I'm looking at timelines and responsibilities you guys had. I made more than many of you driving a truck, and then working through my apprenticeship as an auto tech. Now in law enforcement at 130K for 2023 and I'm thinking it would be too tough of a pill to swallow to switch careers at my age to make 50K. Yikes

[Me262]

Actual bus drivers make more

[goldeneagle]

Actual bus drivers make more

Simple economics of supply and demand. There's not a lot of folks lining up to drive a bus, while there is a never ending supply of folks lining up to drive an airplane. The wages on offer are a reflection of the number of qualified folks applying for the jobs. You will note, a bus company typically has to go about recruiting folks to come work for them, while airlines simply sift thru a massive pile of unsolicited applications.

[CJKk]

It took me 5 years to cross 100k
Started in 2017.