Stop the unfair UP Express price hike for Employees

[cdnavater]

I guess all those pilots objecting to the OP don't try and fight those AIF for commuters anymore either

Well digits, since I’ve been paying AIFs etc., for 20 years and they’ve done nothing but go up, my sympathy for 7 dollars to save time is really lacking.
Take the bus or buy a car or better yet move closer to your job, those are your options! Everyone always says it’s my choice to commute so it’s my choice to pay the fees and they are absolutely correct. I will support your petition if it includes all fees employees who work at Pearson, including the AIFs.

[digits_]

I guess all those pilots objecting to the OP don't try and fight those AIF for commuters anymore either

Well digits, since I’ve been paying AIFs etc., for 20 years and they’ve done nothing but go up, my sympathy for 7 dollars to save time is really lacking.
Take the bus or buy a car or better yet move closer to your job, those are your options! Everyone always says it’s my choice to commute so it’s my choice to pay the fees and they are absolutely correct. I will support your petition if it includes all fees employees who work at Pearson, including the AIFs.

I figured that would be the justification. "You're only getting a break if I'm getting a break!"

On a side note: how many of the petitions and actions to get rid of the AIF have included UP express (or similar modes of transportation) discounts as one of the action points/demands?

[cdnavater]

I guess all those pilots objecting to the OP don't try and fight those AIF for commuters anymore either

Well digits, since I’ve been paying AIFs etc., for 20 years and they’ve done nothing but go up, my sympathy for 7 dollars to save time is really lacking.
Take the bus or buy a car or better yet move closer to your job, those are your options! Everyone always says it’s my choice to commute so it’s my choice to pay the fees and they are absolutely correct. I will support your petition if it includes all fees employees who work at Pearson, including the AIFs.

I figured that would be the justification. "You're only getting a break if I'm getting a break!"

On a side note: how many of the petitions and actions to get rid of the AIF have included UP express (or similar modes of transportation) discounts as one of the action points/demands?

No, I said I would support the petition however my point was more about choice, if the AIFs get so expensive I can’t afford to commute , I’ll have to move. Fees are not going anywhere and btw, to get myself to YYZ, I drive nearly an hour, take a flight and pay my fees, then I take the transit to and from the airport while there, where’s my discount.

[rookiepilot]

Alright,

This is a complete waste of my time


For someone who has to take the subway to union then the UP you're looking at over 10$/trip. At those prices people will decide to take the car 10/10 times even if it would have been convenient to take transit.

Mine too.

Why anyone would take the Subway THEN the UP raises eyebrows about your whole post.

Subway goes to Kipling then Express Bus. 3 bucks.

Makes no sense.

Carry on.

[Smilin' Jack]

For everyone complaining about subsidizing airport worker's trips to the airport,...
Let's not forget that at nearly every airport there is a surcharge applied. Rental cars are often cheaper off-airport, taxies charge an airport pickup/dropoff surcharge and city busses also charge differently to go to the airport.

You don't subsidize my gas to and from work and I don't think we should subsidize the UPX either.
We should be encouraging people to take public transit over everyone driving a nearly empty car every day.
We should not be charging any extra to get to the airport than we should if someone is taking public transit to any other location in the city.

[rookiepilot]

For everyone complaining about subsidizing airport worker's trips to the airport,...
Let's not forget that at nearly every airport there is a surcharge applied. Rental cars are often cheaper off-airport, taxies charge an airport pickup/dropoff surcharge and city busses also charge differently to go to the airport.

You don't subsidize my gas to and from work and I don't think we should subsidize the UPX either.
We should be encouraging people to take public transit over everyone driving a nearly empty car every day.
We should not be charging any extra to get to the airport than we should if someone is taking public transit to any other location in the city.

There is no surcharge using the TTC to get to the airport.

[throwawaycorporate]

My thoughts on this.. that not one asked for.

Airport employees should be offered a monthly pass at a rate that is affordable at minimum wage, or at least affordable to the average wage received working at YYZ. The Skytrain in Vancouver is $104 (and includes the rest of the city's transit, but that's another matter).

To me there should be no discount for employees buying single fares.

At these new rates, taking the train twice daily for your average M-F worker is over $300/month. At this point, it makes better sense in many ways to drive, take less efficient transit, risk evading the fare entirely, or seek employment elsewhere. IE - ridership goes down. Next financial review, train loses money again and the solution? Raise the rates on employees 110% to break even. Tickets for employees now $14 one way.

Cycle continues.

This could seem like a good solution but here is why it isn't:

The monthly pass works great for the guy who works 9-5 5 days a week. It doesn't work that well for air crews, part time workers, shift workers (who sometimes have to start or end work outside of the UP express hours). As it turns out that's a large percentage of the employees you'll find around the airport. These people might not use the service enough to justify a monthly pass.

But you still want them to have access to cheap/efficient public transit options. They'll take it when it's convenient. Other times they might drive, or get a cab, or get dropped off by their spouse if they live in single car households, or take a GO bus or the TTC depending on where they're going. For someone who has to take the subway to union then the UP you're looking at over 10$/trip. At those prices people will decide to take the car 10/10 times even if it would have been convenient to take transit.

I appreciate your thought out response, but we just see this matter slightly different. When signing up for a gym, drop in rates are $20/day, or you could have unlimited access for $80/month.

With the UP, I envision the monthly employee pass offered at a reasonable amount, call it $120, where if you're doing more than 5 return trips, it makes sense to buy the monthly pass. At $120/month, under 5% of monthly income buys reliable, quick transportation to work.

The reason I don't love the discounted single fares, is because it feels like having your cake and eating it too. I see part time workers, flight crew, and everyone else that uses the UP less often as equally benefiting from the infrastructure . Access to the system at a reasonable amount in an overall monthly budget feels like a more fair solution to me.

If certain groups had access to the gym at $3/visit, it would have a significant impact on the gyms balance sheet and the burden of the shortfall would have to be made up elsewhere for the doors to stay open.

I know the gym example doesn't translate seamlessly, but my main point is that by discounting single fares, certain groups are receiving an outsized benefit from the infrastructure while not contributing their fair share.

Just as a $80/month gym membership is great value for your health and wallet, I believe people should be offered a reasonable monthly solution and need to make an individual choice based on their individual needs.

[JustaCanadian]

The most fair way to decide on employee discount fares would be that you line up in a 3 hour line similar to getting your RAIC updated. You bring your T4 from last year in, and walk into a room with propaganda signs about how difficult these times are and you need to be respectful to all the staff. You know, your time won’t be respected…but yeah show some respect and waste hours in a line for your social credit discount. Then if you make over 50k year, you don’t need a discount on UP. This is a very high salary, you are in the pay more percentile because obviously you have a great job. Then if you make less, you would gradually get further discounts based on income. Repeat process every month and purposely make it inefficient.

This would be the most Canadian way to do things.

[arezania]

My thoughts on this.. that not one asked for.

Airport employees should be offered a monthly pass at a rate that is affordable at minimum wage, or at least affordable to the average wage received working at YYZ. The Skytrain in Vancouver is $104 (and includes the rest of the city's transit, but that's another matter).

To me there should be no discount for employees buying single fares.

At these new rates, taking the train twice daily for your average M-F worker is over $300/month. At this point, it makes better sense in many ways to drive, take less efficient transit, risk evading the fare entirely, or seek employment elsewhere. IE - ridership goes down. Next financial review, train loses money again and the solution? Raise the rates on employees 110% to break even. Tickets for employees now $14 one way.

Cycle continues.

This could seem like a good solution but here is why it isn't:

The monthly pass works great for the guy who works 9-5 5 days a week. It doesn't work that well for air crews, part time workers, shift workers (who sometimes have to start or end work outside of the UP express hours). As it turns out that's a large percentage of the employees you'll find around the airport. These people might not use the service enough to justify a monthly pass.

But you still want them to have access to cheap/efficient public transit options. They'll take it when it's convenient. Other times they might drive, or get a cab, or get dropped off by their spouse if they live in single car households, or take a GO bus or the TTC depending on where they're going. For someone who has to take the subway to union then the UP you're looking at over 10$/trip. At those prices people will decide to take the car 10/10 times even if it would have been convenient to take transit.

I appreciate your thought out response, but we just see this matter slightly different. When signing up for a gym, drop in rates are $20/day, or you could have unlimited access for $80/month.

With the UP, I envision the monthly employee pass offered at a reasonable amount, call it $120, where if you're doing more than 5 return trips, it makes sense to buy the monthly pass. At $120/month, under 5% of monthly income buys reliable, quick transportation to work.

The reason I don't love the discounted single fares, is because it feels like having your cake and eating it too. I see part time workers, flight crew, and everyone else that uses the UP less often as equally benefiting from the infrastructure . Access to the system at a reasonable amount in an overall monthly budget feels like a more fair solution to me.

If certain groups had access to the gym at $3/visit, it would have a significant impact on the gyms balance sheet and the burden of the shortfall would have to be made up elsewhere for the doors to stay open.

I know the gym example doesn't translate seamlessly, but my main point is that by discounting single fares, certain groups are receiving an outsized benefit from the infrastructure while not contributing their fair share.

Just as a $80/month gym membership is great value for your health and wallet, I believe people should be offered a reasonable monthly solution and need to make an individual choice based on their individual needs.

Sigh…

You can’t have a petition without people disagreeing, that’s natural and expected.

A gym membership cannot be compared to public transportation.

I pay my taxes, which fund the highway 401 maintenance and construction. I DONT drive on it. I don’t complain that I should be paying for 500 thousand people driving on that highway every day, why? Because at the end of the day, people need that highway to get places…

I am one less car on that highway

A small group of this city are the employees who put an effort to make your flights take off on time and all contribute to less cars backing up the 401, less emissions in the atmosphere and most DO NOT represent the top income earners. Are these really the people you want to target? Do you feel like these people are taking a penny from your hard work? Do you believe their transportation costs should go up 111%? Is that fair to you? Tomorrow your insurance company, Shell and Esso, Jiffy Lube all raise their prices by 111%, you will be okay with it?

[arezania]

For everyone complaining about subsidizing airport worker's trips to the airport,...
Let's not forget that at nearly every airport there is a surcharge applied. Rental cars are often cheaper off-airport, taxies charge an airport pickup/dropoff surcharge and city busses also charge differently to go to the airport.

You don't subsidize my gas to and from work and I don't think we should subsidize the UPX either.
We should be encouraging people to take public transit over everyone driving a nearly empty car every day.
We should not be charging any extra to get to the airport than we should if someone is taking public transit to any other location in the city.

There is no surcharge using the TTC to get to the airport.

You’re right there isn’t.

But why do you think the UP was created?
To eliminate cars, reduce congestion at YYZ
Allow travellers to conveniently get to downtown.
Anything with airport in its name has a surcharge in it, Uber lyft, rental cars
Makes sense for a convenient option for travellers to be surcharged
But the employee who is working to give those travellers a positive experience. Someone who goes there everyday, every second day, once a week, a month.
They should NOT be punished for working at the airport
If someone chooses to not have a car, whether or not they can afford one or not, they should not be punished by dealing with increased fares
You are paying the same tax as me to fix all the roads and I never drive. I would never think that’s unfair
You pay for schools even though you may not have kids. Is that unfair to you?
The original 3.50 UP fare allowed employees to pay almost the same as anyone riding the TTC and get to work safely and reliably. If the TTC was such a viable option, the UP would NOT have been built. Why would the province invest all that money if the TTC was doing so well?

Obviously it wasn’t doing well, it was a poor option with low reliability and lengthy travel times.

[8895]

To all the replies saying “well if the service has an operating cost then what do you expect” you do realize that like 2 years ago the employee discount was something around $3.50, don’t know how you all can justify this rapid of an increase in such a short amount of time. Very blatant price gouging by metrolinx. I’ll happily sign.

[rookiepilot]

I don’t drive, I don’t even think a lot of employees could afford to drive either so they take the UP.

[rookiepilot]

I pay my taxes, which fund the highway 401 maintenance and construction. I DONT drive on it. I don’t complain that I should be paying for 500 thousand people driving on that highway every day, why? Because at the end of the day, people need that highway to get places…

I am one less car on that highway

Exactly how are you paying taxes to fund the 401?

You don’t drive.

Your posts here are filled with misinformation in my opinion, from this to accurately stated information on pubic transit options in Toronto.

This is your petition. Your credibility is shot. Metrolinx will laugh you out of the building.

[CaptDukeNukem]

The amount of people I see skipping fares on the UP is insane. Crack down on those guys and you’ll get your money back.

[arezania]

Update:

A small win… AC ALPA listened to the concerns brought out by this issue and has successfully negotiated a transportation allowance for pilots ($100/month) at all bases upon receipt of a parking pass.(Or just ask for it if you don’t drive anyways)

This is a battle won in a war towards fair and equitable options for employees who choose not to drive.

[rigpiggy]

Won't say which airport. But we had our parking pass tied to the raic.had a few commuters and shared a couple of cars. Best part was trying to get the commission aired to open the gate....to get out. Well the computer doesn't show that you checked in ...dumass

[8895]

I guess all those pilots objecting to the OP don't try and fight those AIF for commuters anymore either

Well digits, since I’ve been paying AIFs etc., for 20 years and they’ve done nothing but go up, my sympathy for 7 dollars to save time is really lacking.
Take the bus or buy a car or better yet move closer to your job, those are your options! Everyone always says it’s my choice to commute so it’s my choice to pay the fees and they are absolutely correct. I will support your petition if it includes all fees employees who work at Pearson, including the AIFs.

This is the most “I had to walk to school uphill both ways” boomer excuse for price gouging I’ve ever heard. Price increase over 100% over 2 years is blatant abuse of a monopoly by metrolinx.

[cdnavater]

I guess all those pilots objecting to the OP don't try and fight those AIF for commuters anymore either

Well digits, since I’ve been paying AIFs etc., for 20 years and they’ve done nothing but go up, my sympathy for 7 dollars to save time is really lacking.
Take the bus or buy a car or better yet move closer to your job, those are your options! Everyone always says it’s my choice to commute so it’s my choice to pay the fees and they are absolutely correct. I will support your petition if it includes all fees employees who work at Pearson, including the AIFs.

This is the most “I had to walk to school uphill both ways” boomer excuse for price gouging I’ve ever heard. Price increase over 100% over 2 years is blatant abuse of a monopoly by metrolinx.

I only walked uphill one way but I DO CURRENTLY pay the high AIFs that continue to increase, when I started commuting, it was 28.00 round trip, I now pay 104 round trip, my choice was pay them or don’t get to work, see how that works

[8895]

Well digits, since I’ve been paying AIFs etc., for 20 years and they’ve done nothing but go up, my sympathy for 7 dollars to save time is really lacking.
Take the bus or buy a car or better yet move closer to your job, those are your options! Everyone always says it’s my choice to commute so it’s my choice to pay the fees and they are absolutely correct. I will support your petition if it includes all fees employees who work at Pearson, including the AIFs.

This is the most “I had to walk to school uphill both ways” boomer excuse for price gouging I’ve ever heard. Price increase over 100% over 2 years is blatant abuse of a monopoly by metrolinx.

I only walked uphill one way but I DO CURRENTLY pay the high AIFs that continue to increase, when I started commuting, it was 28.00 round trip, I now pay 104 round trip, my choice was pay them or don’t get to work, see how that works

I do see how that works, you decided to live out of base and commute from far away while the people complaining about the UP price gouging most likely decided to live at base.

For the record I don't even use the UP but it’s plainly obvious that a government company that controls a monopoly on infrastructure is price gouging. Just because you’re jaded about other high fees you decided to pay with your life decisions doesn’t justify it for everyone else. Get over yourself, or even better, use logic that actually makes sense!

If the government wants to ease congestion on the GTA they need to make it viable for people to do so.

[cdnavater]

This is the most “I had to walk to school uphill both ways” boomer excuse for price gouging I’ve ever heard. Price increase over 100% over 2 years is blatant abuse of a monopoly by metrolinx.

I only walked uphill one way but I DO CURRENTLY pay the high AIFs that continue to increase, when I started commuting, it was 28.00 round trip, I now pay 104 round trip, my choice was pay them or don’t get to work, see how that works

I do see how that works, you decided to live out of base and commute from far away while the people complaining about the UP price gouging most likely decided to live at base.

For the record I don't even use the UP but it’s plainly obvious that a government company that controls a monopoly on infrastructure is price gouging. Just because you’re jaded about other high fees you decided to pay with your life decisions doesn’t justify it for everyone else. Get over yourself, or even better, use logic that actually makes sense!

If the government wants to ease congestion on the GTA they need to make it viable for people to do so.

You don’t see it, commuting in any form is a choice, the people using the UP are not likely the altruistic environmentalists you envision, they are mostly doing it to save time or money or both, not needing a vehicle, dealing with rush hour traffic, parking, insurance, gas, maintenance, etc.
Yes, I commute by choice, the choice of living in the GTA or not but I also deal with a monopoly setting the prices of my commute, I either pay it or find another way, that is it!
Even though there was an agreement that basically said employees travelling on passes should not be paying these fees, we pay them, so pardon me if I don’t really feel sorry for them having to pay their way to work, they can either pay it or find another way to work, that’s how life works!
I do find it very hypocritical of you to say suck it up, while talking out of the other side of your face saying the increase is unfair, it’s literally the exact same thing, they choose to live somewhere that makes the UP a choice, don’t like it, leave early and catch the bus, don’t like that, move somewhere else that makes your commute to work cheaper, don’t like that, find a job closer to your home, don’t like that…….

[altiplano]

UP Express train is a highly subsidized, money losing waste, courtesy of the Ontario Liberals. EVERYONE taking that service is getting subbed by taxpayers to do it.

On the other hand airports are money vacuums that suck up traveler money with their AIFs and fees and waste it on airport authority executives and their vanity projects. Then they send the rest to the feds to blow in their general revenues.

If anything should be reduced it's not the fees for a money losing service tailored to a select region and population with numerous transport alternatives.

[8895]

I only walked uphill one way but I DO CURRENTLY pay the high AIFs that continue to increase, when I started commuting, it was 28.00 round trip, I now pay 104 round trip, my choice was pay them or don’t get to work, see how that works

I do see how that works, you decided to live out of base and commute from far away while the people complaining about the UP price gouging most likely decided to live at base.

For the record I don't even use the UP but it’s plainly obvious that a government company that controls a monopoly on infrastructure is price gouging. Just because you’re jaded about other high fees you decided to pay with your life decisions doesn’t justify it for everyone else. Get over yourself, or even better, use logic that actually makes sense!

If the government wants to ease congestion on the GTA they need to make it viable for people to do so.

You don’t see it, commuting in any form is a choice, the people using the UP are not likely the altruistic environmentalists you envision, they are mostly doing it to save time or money or both, not needing a vehicle, dealing with rush hour traffic, parking, insurance, gas, maintenance, etc.
Yes, I commute by choice, the choice of living in the GTA or not but I also deal with a monopoly setting the prices of my commute, I either pay it or find another way, that is it!
Even though there was an agreement that basically said employees travelling on passes should not be paying these fees, we pay them, so pardon me if I don’t really feel sorry for them having to pay their way to work, they can either pay it or find another way to work, that’s how life works!
I do find it very hypocritical of you to say suck it up, while talking out of the other side of your face saying the increase is unfair, it’s literally the exact same thing, they choose to live somewhere that makes the UP a choice, don’t like it, leave early and catch the bus, don’t like that, move somewhere else that makes your commute to work cheaper, don’t like that, find a job closer to your home, don’t like that…….

You’re trying to frame your “I have to suffer so everyone else should” argument based on the fact that you’re taking a plane from out of base vs people taking public transport that was built with tax dollars lmfao. Once again, get over yourself. I fail to see how I’m hypocritical, and I also believe you’re REACHING to connect the dots you’re wanting to.

Also literally every time I check this website it says you’re online, are you ok??

[rookiepilot]

This is a dumb thread. Metrolinx should change their entire business model because of a few disgruntled employees? Not their issue, take it up with the employer.

There are many options to travel to YYZ, UP is a premium choice. Not a monopoly, LOL.

Things cost money to run.

I am heavily in favour of higher user fees. All highways tolled. No free parking.

Pay what things cost. No subsidies to taxpayers to pay.

That will cut immediately congestion and incentivize people onto transit.

[newlygrounded]

This is a dumb thread. Metrolinx should change their entire business model because of a few disgruntled employees? Not their issue, take it up with the employer.

There are many options to travel to YYZ, UP is a premium choice. Not a monopoly, LOL.

Things cost money to run.

I am heavily in favour of higher user fees. All highways tolled. No free parking.

Pay what things cost. No subsidies to taxpayers to pay.

That will cut immediately congestion and incentivize people onto transit.

Kick the homeless off of it and people will happily switch

[PeakLeverage]

UP Express should be subsidized by airport employers