Cheapest possible IFR approach at airport

[digits_]

Hi all,

I'm wondering what the cheapest possible way is to get a legal IFR approach at an aerodrome. This IFR approach does not need to be useful, it just needs to exist. Any approach based on radio aids is probably out, as there are none around close by. I doubt you can use an NDB 40 miles out?

I have feeling it would end up being an RNAV approach. Talking to some other operators, the surveying and flying the approach to determine clearance to obstacles etc is what makes an approach expensive. I'm wondering if it would be easier to have an approach that ends at the MSA? That way you're already guaranteed not to have any obstacles. Could an approach like that technically be designed and approved without ever flying it? Could even be one that ends up with a circling approach with minima at the MSA.

Any thoughts or creative/cheap ideas?

While I admit the reason for doing this could be construed as petty (see below), I am seriously exploring options to achieve this.


Background information:
The reason for all this is that Garmin refuses to include my registered aerodrome (and every other small Canadian PPR aerodrome) in their GTN / GNS databases. They do include them in some of their VFR databases. (source for those interested: https://support.garmin.com/en-US/aviati ... EtG2QeeAA/ ). They would only include aerodromes like this if they have an IFR approach. And yes, I've contacted Garmin multiple times, without any success. It's been, literally, years and I'm getting pissed off. And no, adding user waypoints won't solve the issue. That would add the airport to my database, but not to my visitors databases. I'd like to be able to tell them to fly to XXXX, after all, it's registered, it's in the CFS and foreflight, even in the jeppesen databases. Just not in the garmin products that a lot of pilots use.

/rant over


Alternatively, looks like a departure or arrival procedure would work as well... If there are any easier solutions for that...

[porcsord]

I seem to recall somewhere in the 20-30k mark initially, and then 10ish per year after that. That was with us providing an aircraft to do the flying. Why are you looking to get it listed in Garmins Database? That probably means more people, and people are just awful.

[Bede]

But that would only get you a private approach. Then you need to get it added to the CAP, no?

Lots of private approaches exist, but they're not in the CAP.

I had a registered aerodrome and it was in the Garmin database. (Then the neighbor put powerlines across the end and a sketchy air strip became impossible.)

[digits_]

But that would only get you a private approach. Then you need to get it added to the CAP, no?

Lots of private approaches exist, but they're not in the CAP.

Not sure how that would work, but it's a good point. I thought the restricted private approaches were approaches that didn't conform to certain standards, and thus were only allowed to be flown by certain operators.

[Conflicting Traffic]

Would it solve your problem to just get a waypoint published over your aerodrome instead of a whole approach? I'm not sure what that would involve, but it might be possible and if so it would likely be easier/cheaper than an approach.

[itsgrosswhatinet]

Would it solve your problem to just get a waypoint published over your aerodrome instead of a whole approach? I'm not sure what that would involve, but it might be possible and if so it would likely be easier/cheaper than an approach.

All you need is lat and long to build your own GPS approach.

[digits_]

Would it solve your problem to just get a waypoint published over your aerodrome instead of a whole approach? I'm not sure what that would involve, but it might be possible and if so it would likely be easier/cheaper than an approach.

Another poster sent me a similar suggestion. But I don't think this would trigger Garmin to list my aerodrome in their database. It would just add an extra IFR waypoint to the database.

[Conflicting Traffic]

Would it solve your problem to just get a waypoint published over your aerodrome instead of a whole approach? I'm not sure what that would involve, but it might be possible and if so it would likely be easier/cheaper than an approach.

All you need is lat and long to build your own GPS approach.

That's not really correct, but even if it was, OP wants something *published* so other people can use it.

[digits_]

I seem to recall somewhere in the 20-30k mark initially, and then 10ish per year after that. That was with us providing an aircraft to do the flying.

I was afraid of that. My hope was, that by having an approach that doesn't go under the MSA, it would be a trivial exercise and would just be paperwork that I could possibly do myself and save a bunch of money.

But, quite unsurprisingly really, that doesn't seem to be a well documented avenue.

Why are you looking to get it listed in Garmins Database? That probably means more people, and people are just awful.

I admit I have no logical reply to this. More of a 'just because"

[digits_]

Would it solve your problem to just get a waypoint published over your aerodrome instead of a whole approach? I'm not sure what that would involve, but it might be possible and if so it would likely be easier/cheaper than an approach.

All you need is lat and long to build your own GPS approach.

That's not really correct, but even if it was, OP wants something *published* so other people can use it.

Sort of. I just want it to be published. Nobody would even need to use it really, although they could!

[digits_]

What about the alternative options: can an aerodrome be listed/linked to an arrival if there's no approach into the aerodrome?

[‘Bob’]

Mexican ILS

[goingnowherefast]

Would it solve your problem to just get a waypoint published over your aerodrome instead of a whole approach? I'm not sure what that would involve, but it might be possible and if so it would likely be easier/cheaper than an approach.

Another poster sent me a similar suggestion. But I don't think this would trigger Garmin to list my aerodrome in their database. It would just add an extra IFR waypoint to the database.

Your aerodrome wouldn't be listed, but you could tell friends to fly to "GHERE" (or whatever it is).

[55+]

https://www.directapproach.ca/index.html

I personally know the owner having worked with him. This will give you design quality insurance , publication direction and most importantly legal standing.

[just clearing the trees]

And no, adding user waypoints won't solve the issue. That would add the airport to my database, but not to my visitors databases. I'd like to be able to tell them to fly to XXXX

I feel like I must be missing something here. Can't you just give them the coordinates, which they can then spend 60 seconds inputing into their own user waypoints?

[digits_]

And no, adding user waypoints won't solve the issue. That would add the airport to my database, but not to my visitors databases. I'd like to be able to tell them to fly to XXXX

I feel like I must be missing something here. Can't you just give them the coordinates, which they can then spend 60 seconds inputing into their own user waypoints?

Sure that's possible. You could do that for any aerodrome. But why should you? If you pay quite handsomely for a Garmin database you shouldn't have to add user waypoints for an aerodrome that's published in the CFS.

[itsgrosswhatinet]

My hope was, that by having an approach that doesn't go under the MSA, it would be a trivial exercise and would just be paperwork that I could possibly do myself and save a bunch of money.

You can save money and descend to the MSA

[DHC-1 Jockey]

I'm not sure if this document is helpful, but it's produced by the NavCanada Instrument Procedures and Design team to assist with the development of new procedures. I don't think it mentions anything about the cost, but it at least outlines the process:

https://www.navcanada.ca/en/p-ipd-102-i ... dromes.pdf

https://tc.canada.ca/en/aviation/refere ... no-301-001

[digits_]

I'm not sure if this document is helpful, but it's produced by the NavCanada Instrument Procedures and Design team to assist with the development of new procedures. I don't think it mentions anything about the cost, but it at least outlines the process:

https://www.navcanada.ca/en/p-ipd-102-i ... dromes.pdf

https://tc.canada.ca/en/aviation/refere ... no-301-001

Thank you!!

[I WAS Pez]

One other note here that's getting to be more relevant for light GA aircraft, is TAWS / FLTA included and configured in modern (frequently Garmin) GA avionics equipment. Depending on how it's configured in the aircraft (and light GA aircraft won't require these systems or require them to be tied to audio, etc), these may provide aural and visual terrain/obstacle callouts. As with the TAWS or EGPWS systems in larger aircraft, terrain awareness is database driven, and alerts are suppressed when on approach to an airport in the database. If the airport isn't in the database, the system will be screaming at you about terrain. Sometimes it's a pain to suppress this warning....which isn't ideal.

[Eric Janson]

As an alternative you may be able to get approval for a Cloud Breaking procedure.

Waypoint with a holding pattern.

Join holding at MSA/MORA.

Descend in the hold to get VMC then continue visually to land.

[digits_]

As an alternative you may be able to get approval for a Cloud Breaking procedure.

Waypoint with a holding pattern.

Join holding at MSA/MORA.

Descend in the hold to get VMC then continue visually to land.

Are these generally published on a plate linked to an aerodrome? I understand the principle but I've never seen it on an aerodrome plate.

[Eric Janson]

As an alternative you may be able to get approval for a Cloud Breaking procedure.

Waypoint with a holding pattern.

Join holding at MSA/MORA.

Descend in the hold to get VMC then continue visually to land.

Are these generally published on a plate linked to an aerodrome? I understand the principle but I've never seen it on an aerodrome plate.

Not too sure how these are published - probably operator specific.

https://www.directapproach.ca/index.html

These people may be able to help you further with getting something in place.

[digits_]

I figured I'd post an update for other interested parties since I did get a few PMs as well. I contacted directapproach.ca and another provider somebody sent to me via PM. Directapproach gave me a lot of very valuable information regarding the process. Turns out an approach can be developed significantly cheaper than the 30k or 50k that has been mentioned online her and elsewhere. Surprisingly, they are also aware of some Garmin database related issues.

But that turned out to (likely) be irrelevant. I'm not sure if Garmin saw this topic, or one of the contacts reached out to their contacts etc, but I got contacted by a Garmin rep I talked to months and years ago to discuss the issue in more detail. My aerodrome will get added to the database without the need for an IFR approach and they would review their database strategy for Canada. Not sure when or how that will change.

Anyway, making waves, albeit very slowly, does seem to work a bit. I'll update once I actually see the aerodrome in the database.