New hire bids

[mmm...bacon]

I wonder what the experience level of this class of new hires is ?

I was at a gathering last summer, and met two new hires; one of whom was under 1000TT (750, iirc?) all instructing. Can’t remember if there was any MIFR time. Father was a jazz pilot, so not sure if the time was representative of new-hires, or whether dad had tipped the scales a little..

[yowflyer23]

945 active Jazz pilots (pretty close to the 1000+/-50 estimate).

215 vacancies including known attrition (AC flow, 20 ERP retirements, and normal retirement).

Does NOT include unknown attrition (everywhere else but AC). 100-150 Jazz pilots left for non-AC flying positions in 2023.

With planned hiring of 20 pilots every 3 weeks, Jazz will be hard pressed to still have 945 active pilots by year-end 2024.

Last bid prior to GGN/SKV consolidation was 1179 positions. Bid 2023-01 was 1326 positions.

What fleet/bases have the most vacancies for 2024?

[CaptDukeNukem]

Nope...

8 CRJ YVR
3 E175 YYZ
3 E175 YUL
5 Q400 YVR
1 Q400 YYC

Looks like porter will be receiving 6 pilots in the near future

AC should prioritize every single application from Porter. That wouldn’t be so funny…

We’ve had a few people at porter go to AC, mostly Q drivers.

The main difference here is the common type rating. If you have a E1 or Q sticker, you’ll be operational quite quickly at porter and making bigger bucks.

As for going to AC from porter, you’ll take a pay cut and trade your soul for a logo with the premise that maybe years from now you’ll be better off.

Also, AC has contractual obligations (which we all know have been broken before) to hire from jazz. Porter has no such agreement with anyone and will absolutely keep hiring Jazz E1 pilots.

[ant_321]

I wonder what the experience level of this class of new hires is ?

I was at a gathering last summer, and met two new hires; one of whom was under 1000TT (750, iirc?) all instructing. Can’t remember if there was any MIFR time. Father was a jazz pilot, so not sure if the time was representative of new-hires, or whether dad had tipped the scales a little..

I would assume that is the norm in this environment. We’ve hired plenty of sub 1000hr pilots at SWG.

[Scoob]

I wonder what the experience level of this class of new hires is ?

I was hired in Nov 2023.

In my class of 14:
1 ATPL
2 with former 705 xp (no ATPL)
3 fresh out of school through pathways program
The rest (8) of us flew other jobs, such as instructing, surveying, 703s, etc. and in the ballpark of 600-1200 hours

[rudder]

2024 looks like it will be a repeat of 2023 at Jazz. 300-400 pilots out. 200-300 pilots in. Working its way to a de facto fleet of 80 airplanes/1000 line pilots.

Wash - rinse - repeat.

[Inverted2]

Don't forget it's an election year and I betcha the elites have something brewing and ready to release in 2024. Remember what happened 4 years ago?

All this insane hiring can grind to a halt anytime. Shit could all go sideways in a month and half of us are laid off again following arrows around the grocery store. Best insurance is a seniority number with numbers below.

[rudder]

Don't forget it's an election year and I betcha the elites have something brewing and ready to release in 2024. Remember what happened 4 years ago?

All this insane hiring can grind to a halt anytime. Shit could all go sideways in a month and half of us are laid off again following arrows around the grocery store. Best insurance is a seniority number with numbers below.

If AC stopped hiring, and WestJet/Porter/Transat/Flair/Sunwing/Morningstar/Cargojet stopped hiring, then Jazz pilot ranks might grow.

That is highly unlikely. Would take a black swan event in 2024 (think COVID/9-11/etc).

What Jazz is offering from a compensation/lifestyle/career progression/job security perspective is lacking against the many other opportunities that are currently available.

As aresult, growth is off the table. Status quo is the goal. And even that will come with challenges. AC flow is the only attrition that can be (partially) metered. Everywhere else is simply a resignation email and a subsequent empty seat.

[Inverted2]

I totally get what you’re saying. My point is only that it can all change in an instant. A lot of people I talk to think the AC hiring spree is going to keep going forever.

[rudder]

I totally get what you’re saying. My point is only that it can all change in an instant. A lot of people I talk to think the AC hiring spree is going to keep going forever.

True.

Career will look a lot different for number 5000 vs number 6000 at AC even though their DOH might be separated by only14 months.

Hence, the rush to get to AC in 2023/2024….

[braaap Braap]

You guys trying to jinx us?!

[Scoob]

1/29/2024

7 CRJ YYC
4 E175 YUL
4 E175 YYZ
2 Q400 YYC
2 Q400 YVR

[truedude]

How many ATPLs? And how many instructors?

[cdnavater]

How many ATPLs? And how many instructors?

I’ve had a few come through lately with other than instructor time, some with between 1300-1800 hours.
I’m thinking things are slowing down a bit and the new wage is not as insulting, still not high enough but enough for some to justify the short term.

[MA2557]

I’ll be in a ground school coming up and just wondering if anyone had any insight on what will be available. Seeing as the last 2 classes had large CRJs/Qs out of YYC and YVR is it safe to assume majority of availability will be out east or is it completely random?

[CaptDukeNukem]

I still find it crazy that people accept positions without knowing the equipment and/or city that they will be working from.

[cdnavater]

I still find it crazy that people accept positions without knowing the equipment and/or city that they will be working from.

It’s easy at a company that has one type, bases could be determined ahead but the reality is, in a seniority system where bases are awarded in order of seniority, what option is there? For the most part pilots are awarded their desired base before the end of initial training and since it’s is seniority and everything is decided by that telling pilots what will be available is not likely going to change their mind, they will come either way.
AC is the same, I would highly doubt any company with the same set up, multi base and type does it any differently. If AC sends you an offer letter with the base and type available but you still need to draw a number to determine it, what difference does it make? If they send an offer letter that says, the entire class is going to be YYZ A220(highly unlikely) how many would defer until their desired equipment and base is available.
I would think for most it’s the same, get in and figure everything else out later.

[cdnavater]

I’ll be in a ground school coming up and just wondering if anyone had any insight on what will be available. Seeing as the last 2 classes had large CRJs/Qs out of YYC and YVR is it safe to assume majority of availability will be out east or is it completely random?

With the processing of the equipment BID ongoing it would be difficult to determine with so many variables, however the majority of the vacancies were on the E175 and RJ, there is a good chance it will be that equipment at all bases.
It really depends on how many pilots past the equipment freeze that are able to bid the RJ/E175, which of course would open up Q spots.

[Rowdy]

There are a number of YVR Q FO's and Junior CA's about to go to WJ and AC. I'd imagine they will be filling those spots soon.

Hopefully with the addition of the extra 9 captains on this bid we can go back to 16 day (80hr) work months..

[rudder]

Hopefully with the addition of the extra 9 captains on this bid we can go back to 16 day (80hr) work months..

I actually don’t see that in the cards. And just imagine a 16 day work month to be the goal? That is what the NB pilots at AC have now and are demanding change.

82.5-87.5 combined with horribly inefficient pairings will be the norm at Jazz for the foreseeable future. All courtesy of the MOA. Plus the pilot shortfall at Jazz will not resolve itself during 2024.

Also imagine knowing that every month will be 17-18 work days, vacation months excepted?

Jazz is producing some of the worst schedules in the industry (days worked/TAFB). Absent work rule changes and/or a significant net increase in pilots, that won’t improve anytime soon.

[truedude]

Hopefully with the addition of the extra 9 captains on this bid we can go back to 16 day (80hr) work months..

I actually don’t see that in the cards. And just imagine a 16 day work month to be the goal? That is what the NB pilots at AC have now and are demanding change.

82.5-87.5 combined with horribly inefficient pairings will be the norm at Jazz for the foreseeable future. All courtesy of the MOA. Plus the pilot shortfall at Jazz will not resolve itself during 2024.

Also imagine knowing that every month will be 17-18 work days, vacation months excepted?

Jazz is producing some of the worst schedules in the industry (days worked/TAFB). Absent work rule changes and/or a significant net increase in pilots, that won’t improve anytime soon.

I tend to agree. Though they can schedule people for as many days as they want... people will just use up their sick time and family days. And it will just cause more people to keep looking for greener pastures.

The work rules need a major overhaul... 16 days should be the absolute max!

[Outlaw58]

I’ll be in a ground school coming up and just wondering if anyone had any insight on what will be available. Seeing as the last 2 classes had large CRJs/Qs out of YYC and YVR is it safe to assume majority of availability will be out east or is it completely random?

With the processing of the equipment BID ongoing it would be difficult to determine with so many variables, however the majority of the vacancies were on the E175 and RJ, there is a good chance it will be that equipment at all bases.
It really depends on how many pilots past the equipment freeze that are able to bid the RJ/E175, which of course would open up Q spots.

Actually, when the bid is done, all FOs should be at the base of their choosing AND there will be FO vacancies to be filled in the short term in ALL bases. I believe it is fair to expect that for the next 3-4 NH classes, NH will find themselves in the base of their choosing even before they start indoc.

58

[cdnavater]

I’ll be in a ground school coming up and just wondering if anyone had any insight on what will be available. Seeing as the last 2 classes had large CRJs/Qs out of YYC and YVR is it safe to assume majority of availability will be out east or is it completely random?

With the processing of the equipment BID ongoing it would be difficult to determine with so many variables, however the majority of the vacancies were on the E175 and RJ, there is a good chance it will be that equipment at all bases.
It really depends on how many pilots past the equipment freeze that are able to bid the RJ/E175, which of course would open up Q spots.

Actually, when the bid is done, all FOs should be at the base of their choosing AND there will be FO vacancies to be filled in the short term in ALL bases. I believe it is fair to expect that for the next 3-4 NH classes, NH will find themselves in the base of their choosing even before they start indoc.

58

I guess my point wasn’t clear, there were vacancies at all bases, on all types, the majority of open spots on the E175 and RJ.
Some variables are whether or not there are that many Q FOs that are released from freeze on the Q to bid the open Jet spots, which will change the availability of those spots for new hires.
As for base, I agree, new hires over the next few ground schools can bank on preferred base right away or bat the very least before the end of initial training.

[Rowdy]

Hopefully with the addition of the extra 9 captains on this bid we can go back to 16 day (80hr) work months..

I actually don’t see that in the cards. And just imagine a 16 day work month to be the goal? That is what the NB pilots at AC have now and are demanding change.

82.5-87.5 combined with horribly inefficient pairings will be the norm at Jazz for the foreseeable future. All courtesy of the MOA. Plus the pilot shortfall at Jazz will not resolve itself during 2024.

Also imagine knowing that every month will be 17-18 work days, vacation months excepted?

Jazz is producing some of the worst schedules in the industry (days worked/TAFB). Absent work rule changes and/or a significant net increase in pilots, that won’t improve anytime soon.

Again, Hopeful, but the reality is exactly as you have posted.

Every month for about a year now has been 18-19 days. You are right, that MOS was a hot pile.

Jazz in no longer feasible for many. AC is not a feasible option either.

[lucky1993]

With everyone working 18+ days a month how many days a month do those on reserve actually end up flying?