skyrp0 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 2:56 pm
How many are they hiring this year? Keep hearing different numbers...
i did my interview early december and I was told about 600 more by the end of the year.
I would expect ground schools to run every two weeks for the foreseeable future. Typically, ground schools ("PIT courses") consist of anywhere from 20 to 40 new hires, with the average being high-20s to mid-30s. If 600 pilots are hired in 2024, that would work out to 50 pilots per month, which is probably a reasonable estimate.
The big question is, are there enough qualified and experienced candidates remaining out there to fulfill Air Canada's demand? Airlines like WestJet and Porter have been upping their salaries and improving working conditions for their pilots, while Air Canada has been lagging behind significantly. Experienced candidates will be less likely to accept a job at Air Canada if the new contract fails to meet expectations in a big way.
skyrp0 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2024 2:56 pm
How many are they hiring this year? Keep hearing different numbers...
i did my interview early december and I was told about 600 more by the end of the year.
I would expect ground schools to run every two weeks for the foreseeable future. Typically, ground schools ("PIT courses") consist of anywhere from 20 to 40 new hires, with the average being high-20s to mid-30s. If 600 pilots are hired in 2024, that would work out to 50 pilots per month, which is probably a reasonable estimate.
The big question is, are there enough qualified and experienced candidates remaining out there to fulfill Air Canada's demand? Airlines like WestJet and Porter have been upping their salaries and improving working conditions for their pilots, while Air Canada has been lagging behind significantly. Experienced candidates will be less likely to accept a job at Air Canada if the new contract fails to meet expectations in a big way.
They are starting to hire sub 2000 pilots already, so as that pile dries up, the mins will go lower until they resume pile starts to build again if the contract meets expectations.
They are starting to hire sub 2000 pilots already, so as that pile dries up, the mins will go lower until they resume pile starts to build again if the contract meets expectations.
[/quote]
Sub 2000 wasn't true about a month ago. Guys were being told to apply again with ~1950 hours. Guys were getting hired a year ago with just over 2000 hours as well.... still lots of interest at AC, just a lot of guys waiting on the sidelines for a good contract before they commit to a lifetime of commuting and/or starting out at the bottom again.
The new contract will be industry leading (in canada at least), you can't expect them to come in under anyone else and also expect them to hire 600-800 pilots a year with a lot of new hires hanging on for better pay etc. You'd have more pilots leaving then you could hire if the contract was anything less than significant. ~$100k year one and a commuting policy would be the minimum I'd imagine to pull guys from elsewhere.
AJH wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2024 10:13 pm
Sub 2000 wasn't true about a month ago. Guys were being told to apply again with ~1950 hours. Guys were getting hired a year ago with just over 2000 hours as well.... still lots of interest at AC, just a lot of guys waiting on the sidelines for a good contract before they commit to a lifetime of commuting and/or starting out at the bottom again.
The new contract will be industry leading (in canada at least), you can't expect them to come in under anyone else and also expect them to hire 600-800 pilots a year with a lot of new hires hanging on for better pay etc. You'd have more pilots leaving then you could hire if the contract was anything less than significant. ~$100k year one and a commuting policy would be the minimum I'd imagine to pull guys from elsewhere.
Honest question, where are these pilots going to go if the contract isn’t to their satisfaction?
I think people overestimate how many would actually leave AC, maybe some will look overseas but the reality is there is no where else in Canada once you’ve made it to AC.
AJH wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 9:33 am
For long term stability and variety of aircraft, absolutely air canada is tough to beat.
But Transat is a great option out east, along with porter. WestJet should ramp up again in 2025. Theres also places like cargojet and morningstar who also compensate well. Lynx/flair will eventually merge as well and could be a great option when the race to the bottom eventually subsides.
Lots of pilots at different stages of their careers too, some offer quicker upgrades, better schedules/QOL initially, home bases, etc.
But yeah for a younger pilot i would say AC is still the best option if you live close to one of the bases but by all means not the only option.
I’m sorry, not a single one of those options mentioned are a better option regardless of the AC starting pay when the dust settles, not even WJ. The only one that truly pays better to start is Porter, the rest are just slightly above right now, but Porter is a roll of the dice, they could continue to grow or not but long term is not clear yet and they don’t have options for the long term, ie; the likelihood of flying a widebody there is a pipe dream at this point.
I would wager almost anything that the amount of pilots that leave AC for any of those listed options would be less than 10, you seem to underestimate the starting over conundrum and overestimate long term career prospects any airline other than AC.
AJH wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2024 10:13 pm
Sub 2000 wasn't true about a month ago. Guys were being told to apply again with ~1950 hours. Guys were getting hired a year ago with just over 2000 hours as well.... still lots of interest at AC, just a lot of guys waiting on the sidelines for a good contract before they commit to a lifetime of commuting and/or starting out at the bottom again.
The new contract will be industry leading (in canada at least), you can't expect them to come in under anyone else and also expect them to hire 600-800 pilots a year with a lot of new hires hanging on for better pay etc. You'd have more pilots leaving then you could hire if the contract was anything less than significant. ~$100k year one and a commuting policy would be the minimum I'd imagine to pull guys from elsewhere.
Honest question, where are these pilots going to go if the contract isn’t to their satisfaction?
I think people overestimate how many would actually leave AC, maybe some will look overseas but the reality is there is no where else in Canada once you’ve made it to AC.
AJH wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2024 10:13 pm
Sub 2000 wasn't true about a month ago. Guys were being told to apply again with ~1950 hours. Guys were getting hired a year ago with just over 2000 hours as well.... still lots of interest at AC, just a lot of guys waiting on the sidelines for a good contract before they commit to a lifetime of commuting and/or starting out at the bottom again.
The new contract will be industry leading (in canada at least), you can't expect them to come in under anyone else and also expect them to hire 600-800 pilots a year with a lot of new hires hanging on for better pay etc. You'd have more pilots leaving then you could hire if the contract was anything less than significant. ~$100k year one and a commuting policy would be the minimum I'd imagine to pull guys from elsewhere.
Honest question, where are these pilots going to go if the contract isn’t to their satisfaction?
I think people overestimate how many would actually leave AC, maybe some will look overseas but the reality is there is no where else in Canada once you’ve made it to AC.
I have kept my software engineering skills up to date so would probably just bounce back to that career if the AC contract isn't "world class". I realize not everyone is lucky enough to have a backup like that.
AJH wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2024 10:13 pm
Sub 2000 wasn't true about a month ago. Guys were being told to apply again with ~1950 hours. Guys were getting hired a year ago with just over 2000 hours as well.... still lots of interest at AC, just a lot of guys waiting on the sidelines for a good contract before they commit to a lifetime of commuting and/or starting out at the bottom again.
The new contract will be industry leading (in canada at least), you can't expect them to come in under anyone else and also expect them to hire 600-800 pilots a year with a lot of new hires hanging on for better pay etc. You'd have more pilots leaving then you could hire if the contract was anything less than significant. ~$100k year one and a commuting policy would be the minimum I'd imagine to pull guys from elsewhere.
Honest question, where are these pilots going to go if the contract isn’t to their satisfaction?
I think people overestimate how many would actually leave AC, maybe some will look overseas but the reality is there is no where else in Canada once you’ve made it to AC.
I have kept my software engineering skills up to date so would probably just bounce back to that career if the AC contract isn't "world class". I realize not everyone is lucky enough to have a backup like that.
I realize it’s difficult to make ends meet initially but your software engineering career has the same issues from something I read recently, lower pay compared to your US counterparts. Also, I suspect the odds of earning 250-300k long term is remote, your ability to do that at AC is a much higher odd.
I honestly don’t think you have to worry, it is very likely the starting pay will be 100k plus, in my opinion of course.
Honest question, where are these pilots going to go if the contract isn’t to their satisfaction?
I think people overestimate how many would actually leave AC, maybe some will look overseas but the reality is there is no where else in Canada once you’ve made it to AC.
I have kept my software engineering skills up to date so would probably just bounce back to that career if the AC contract isn't "world class". I realize not everyone is lucky enough to have a backup like that.
I realize it’s difficult to make ends meet initially but your software engineering career has the same issues from something I read recently, lower pay compared to your US counterparts. Also, I suspect the odds of earning 250-300k long term is remote, your ability to do that at AC is a much higher odd.
I honestly don’t think you have to worry, it is very likely the starting pay will be 100k plus, in my opinion of course.
Virtually every industry in Canada is lower vs the US. I have friends in software engineering who have gone to the US, and others who stayed in Canada. For one, getting sponership to the US as a software engineer is much, much easier (at least it was in the last few years, recently things have changed), but secondly, for those who don't want to go to the US, the starting pay is much higher, and while the top end will never match what a Captain can make at a large 705, one has to consider age and if they will ever be in the position to make 705 Captain pay. It's a numbers game at the end of the day, and of course, and more importantly I would say, what kind of QOL do you want. If someone has such a valuable asset in being a software engineer, that's quite something, and I can see why one would return to that if the pay and conditions as a 705 pilot don't vastly improve. It comes down to personal circumstances, and of course, personality.
Honest question, where are these pilots going to go if the contract isn’t to their satisfaction?
I think people overestimate how many would actually leave AC, maybe some will look overseas but the reality is there is no where else in Canada once you’ve made it to AC.
I have kept my software engineering skills up to date so would probably just bounce back to that career if the AC contract isn't "world class". I realize not everyone is lucky enough to have a backup like that.
I realize it’s difficult to make ends meet initially but your software engineering career has the same issues from something I read recently, lower pay compared to your US counterparts. Also, I suspect the odds of earning 250-300k long term is remote, your ability to do that at AC is a much higher odd.
I honestly don’t think you have to worry, it is very likely the starting pay will be 100k plus, in my opinion of course.
I certainly hope the AC contract improves enough to keep me at AC. That being said, in software getting a TN visa to work in the US for us Canadians is very easy and there are definitely some well paying jobs down there. I wish that was the case with flying - I spent a bunch of time/money trying to get a EB-2 NIW visa approved for flying in the US and was ultimately rejected by the USCIS.
I have kept my software engineering skills up to date so would probably just bounce back to that career if the AC contract isn't "world class". I realize not everyone is lucky enough to have a backup like that.
I realize it’s difficult to make ends meet initially but your software engineering career has the same issues from something I read recently, lower pay compared to your US counterparts. Also, I suspect the odds of earning 250-300k long term is remote, your ability to do that at AC is a much higher odd.
I honestly don’t think you have to worry, it is very likely the starting pay will be 100k plus, in my opinion of course.
I certainly hope the AC contract improves enough to keep me at AC. That being said, in software getting a TN visa to work in the US for us Canadians is very easy and there are definitely some well paying jobs down there. I wish that was the case with flying - I spent a bunch of time/money trying to get a EB-2 NIW visa approved for flying in the US and was ultimately rejected by the USCIS.
Question, if it’s easier to get to the US as a software engineer, why didn’t you go that route?
Do these visa’s eventually lead to citizenship? I was wondering if you get down there under a needed profession, could you eventually switch?
I realize it’s difficult to make ends meet initially but your software engineering career has the same issues from something I read recently, lower pay compared to your US counterparts. Also, I suspect the odds of earning 250-300k long term is remote, your ability to do that at AC is a much higher odd.
I honestly don’t think you have to worry, it is very likely the starting pay will be 100k plus, in my opinion of course.
I certainly hope the AC contract improves enough to keep me at AC. That being said, in software getting a TN visa to work in the US for us Canadians is very easy and there are definitely some well paying jobs down there. I wish that was the case with flying - I spent a bunch of time/money trying to get a EB-2 NIW visa approved for flying in the US and was ultimately rejected by the USCIS.
Question, if it’s easier to get to the US as a software engineer, why didn’t you go that route?
Do these visa’s eventually lead to citizenship? I was wondering if you get down there under a needed profession, could you eventually switch?
He keeps talking about how he'll leave AC if the contract isn't up to expectations. He says it often and in my experience, just about every coworker I've had that was always going on about leaving for the reason of the day, never did. It was always the quiet ones that complained very little, if they complained at all, that one day they would drop the news that they had a few weeks left. Every single one of those constantly saying they'd quit, are still at those old places, probably complaining about the same thing. Telling the new hires how they'll leave if the next contract isn't substantially better.
I realize it’s difficult to make ends meet initially but your software engineering career has the same issues from something I read recently, lower pay compared to your US counterparts. Also, I suspect the odds of earning 250-300k long term is remote, your ability to do that at AC is a much higher odd.
I honestly don’t think you have to worry, it is very likely the starting pay will be 100k plus, in my opinion of course.
I certainly hope the AC contract improves enough to keep me at AC. That being said, in software getting a TN visa to work in the US for us Canadians is very easy and there are definitely some well paying jobs down there. I wish that was the case with flying - I spent a bunch of time/money trying to get a EB-2 NIW visa approved for flying in the US and was ultimately rejected by the USCIS.
Question, if it’s easier to get to the US as a software engineer, why didn’t you go that route?
Do these visa’s eventually lead to citizenship? I was wondering if you get down there under a needed profession, could you eventually switch?
Certainly is a possibility which I have considered but I would have to spend 5 or more years down there working outside of aviation in order to get employer sponsorship for a green card. Then I would have to restart at the bottom of a US airline seniority list. That timeframe was just a bit too long for me.
Email invitations are now going out to OTS for interviews in March for April ground school starts.
Would it really be that soon after??? I thought the wait time post interview to hear back was around 4 months. So if you interview March shouldn't you expect to start during the summer? If successful
Email invitations are now going out to OTS for interviews in March for April ground school starts.
Would it really be that soon after??? I thought the wait time post interview to hear back was around 4 months. So if you interview March shouldn't you expect to start during the summer? If successful
Depends on the timing of your interview and when the hiring board meets. 8-12 weeks is the standard answer they give, but it could be less could be more.
There's also the issue of them running out of qualified candidates to fill ground schools. So I think people are seeing shorter wait times than 2023.
pipedream? wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 9:45 am
Unless of course you are from Jazz and you are need to protect the air Canada network for just a few more months.
Well don't say that to loud. According to some AC guys they think it's good punishment for making them do regional routes.
Hearing the jazz guys had their interviews pushed from March till sometime April/may because of "Unexpected" scheduling changes. Wonder what ever that could mean.
Hopefully they can join the grievance or something could be done for them too. Good chunk of those guys met and exceeded ac requirements before they went to jazz.
I'm not sure you realize the education and previous experience most AC OTS hires have. Delayed flow is not a 'punishment'. Any flow is a huge windfall for them. Anyway, I'm sure Jazz has its own forum.
