The Air Canada OTS thread

[SkyBagPiper]

Jazz here…jazz there….seriously. What are the chances of getting in and not working for jazz? You only have 6 months from the time you interview to the cutoff PFO to. Get in.

If it’s only Jazz guys getting in. Then it’s a waste of time trying to get in externally!

[Nick678]

Jazz here…jazz there….seriously. What are the chances of getting in and not working for jazz? You only have 6 months from the time you interview to the cutoff PFO to. Get in.

If it’s only Jazz guys getting in. Then it’s a waste of time trying to get in externally!

I promise you jazz is not the way to AC, 4-5 years there to go over to AC

[Hysteria]

4 to 5 years? Is this for the September 2023 onward Jazz new hires part of the 30% agreement?

[Nick678]

4 to 5 years? Is this for the September 2023 onward Jazz new hires part of the 30% agreement?

60% was never 60% and 30% will not be 30% those numbers where never followed. Just dont bother with Jazz

[Canpilot7]

4 to 5 years? Is this for the September 2023 onward Jazz new hires part of the 30% agreement?

60% was never 60% and 30% will not be 30% those numbers where never followed. Just dont bother with Jazz

It was always followed until the post covid boom, and is back to being followed, no? Kinda misleading to imply it's never happened, when it's happened pretty much always.

[Nick678]

[quote=Nick678 post_id=<a href="tel:1301199">1301199</a> time=<a href="tel:1710295807">1710295807</a> user_id=86414]
[quote=Hysteria post_id=<a href="tel:1301162">1301162</a> time=<a href="tel:1710260489">1710260489</a> user_id=60259]
4 to 5 years? Is this for the September 2023 onward Jazz new hires part of the 30% agreement?

60% was never 60% and 30% will not be 30% those numbers where never followed. Just dont bother with Jazz
[/quote]

It was always followed until the post covid boom, and is back to being followed, no? Kinda misleading to imply it's never happened, when it's happened pretty much always.
[/quote]

I wasn’t on property but the 60% deal was inked in 2019 (im not 100% on this) when Georgian folded. So they made the 60% in 2019 and never after. About 30% in 2022 and 37% in 2023. Going to CIRB to resolve in spring. Google it.

[rob-air]

I'm not sure you realize the education and previous experience most AC OTS hires have. Delayed flow is not a 'punishment'. Any flow is a huge windfall for them. Anyway, I'm sure Jazz has its own forum.

Are you implying that most OTS hires have more/better experience and education than Jazz hires?
because it's not 100% true, some OTS guys have but most don't. Some came from a 19 seater some from a king air even. Most OTS hires are not teal, orange or blue star skippers, most coming from those are juniors FO's, so junior that they sometimes get pulled out of training...Jazz hires are just as qualified and sometimes more experienced than OTS hires.

keeping in mind that this rhythm of hiring at AC is not going to last for much longer, If you want to get to AC and don't have the experience it takes yet to join one of the other majors, I would say joining Jazz could be a good long game.

[braaap Braap]

I'm not sure you realize the education and previous experience most AC OTS hires have. Delayed flow is not a 'punishment'. Any flow is a huge windfall for them. Anyway, I'm sure Jazz has its own forum.

I'm not sure you do either

[cdnavater]

I'm not sure you realize the education and previous experience most AC OTS hires have. Delayed flow is not a 'punishment'. Any flow is a huge windfall for them. Anyway, I'm sure Jazz has its own forum.

Pretty arrogant to suggest OTS pilots are somehow better than Jazz pilots and @#$! off with the windfall bullshit!
It was and is contractual, with many Jazz pilot who were eligible to flow having thousands of hours and left seat of a 705 aircraft flying in the AC network.
Now that that pool is being tapped out, the ones flowing will be those that are qualified but from what I’m hearing OTS pilots these days are about the same, 2000ish hours.
Get off your high horse, friggen astronauts!

[a2btrail]

OTS calls going out for Apr 3 ground school

[flying4dollars]

I'm not sure you realize the education and previous experience most AC OTS hires have. Delayed flow is not a 'punishment'. Any flow is a huge windfall for them. Anyway, I'm sure Jazz has its own forum.

Pretty arrogant to suggest OTS pilots are somehow better than Jazz pilots and @#$! off with the windfall bullshit!
It was and is contractual, with many Jazz pilot who were eligible to flow having thousands of hours and left seat of a 705 aircraft flying in the AC network.
Now that that pool is being tapped out, the ones flowing will be those that are qualified but from what I’m hearing OTS pilots these days are about the same, 2000ish hours.
Get off your high horse, friggen astronauts!

You're last statement is accurate. The experience pool is in fact drying up very quickly and Jazz hires coming on the property are just as, if not sometimes more experienced than OTS hires. Especially from an AC operational experience perspective. However this was not the case between 2022-23. To be clear, I'm NOT implying any one hire group is better than the other (because I'm with you, that's just arrogant), but a majority of OTS hires in that date range were in fact more experienced. I used the new hire bios data for that information.

I've heard that hiring requirements are being dropped to 1500 hours and a sim eval. I do not have a legitimate source other than a captain I flew with who said (and I'm paraphrasing): "trust me bro".

[cdnavater]

I'm not sure you realize the education and previous experience most AC OTS hires have. Delayed flow is not a 'punishment'. Any flow is a huge windfall for them. Anyway, I'm sure Jazz has its own forum.

Pretty arrogant to suggest OTS pilots are somehow better than Jazz pilots and @#$! off with the windfall bullshit!
It was and is contractual, with many Jazz pilot who were eligible to flow having thousands of hours and left seat of a 705 aircraft flying in the AC network.
Now that that pool is being tapped out, the ones flowing will be those that are qualified but from what I’m hearing OTS pilots these days are about the same, 2000ish hours.
Get off your high horse, friggen astronauts!

You're last statement is accurate. The experience pool is in fact drying up very quickly and Jazz hires coming on the property are just as, if not sometimes more experienced than OTS hires. Especially from an AC operational experience perspective. However this was not the case between 2022-23. To be clear, I'm NOT implying any one hire group is better than the other (because I'm with you, that's just arrogant), but a majority of OTS hires in that date range were in fact more experienced. I used the new hire bios data for that information.

I've heard that hiring requirements are being dropped to 1500 hours and a sim eval. I do not have a legitimate source other than a captain I flew with who said (and I'm paraphrasing): "trust me bro".

The main thing is the airlines don’t pay more for experience, so in the context of who was hired first obviously experience should count but in the context of an agreement to hire 60%, experience level is not relevant and makes no difference in who is more deserving of those spots.
Had Air Canada simply hired as many experienced pilots as they could and then fulfilled their obligations to the Jazz pilots, I actually would support that fully. Once they realized they didn’t, all hiring should have been from Jazz until they caught up, if they couldn’t because that would empty Jazz, then they should have taken the necessary steps to fix that.
That was the whole entire point of our long term agreement, knowing full well they would have trouble hiring into Jazz at the rates, we were comfortable knowing they would need to fix the problem. They chose to ignore the problem and let it get worse and worse.

[Inverted2]

Also heard the FAA might enforce the 1500hr rule to Canadian airlines flying into the US. That will really throw a wrench into things and Jazz is mostly hiring FO with under 1000 hours now.

[flying4dollars]

Pretty arrogant to suggest OTS pilots are somehow better than Jazz pilots and @#$! off with the windfall bullshit!
It was and is contractual, with many Jazz pilot who were eligible to flow having thousands of hours and left seat of a 705 aircraft flying in the AC network.
Now that that pool is being tapped out, the ones flowing will be those that are qualified but from what I’m hearing OTS pilots these days are about the same, 2000ish hours.
Get off your high horse, friggen astronauts!

You're last statement is accurate. The experience pool is in fact drying up very quickly and Jazz hires coming on the property are just as, if not sometimes more experienced than OTS hires. Especially from an AC operational experience perspective. However this was not the case between 2022-23. To be clear, I'm NOT implying any one hire group is better than the other (because I'm with you, that's just arrogant), but a majority of OTS hires in that date range were in fact more experienced. I used the new hire bios data for that information.

I've heard that hiring requirements are being dropped to 1500 hours and a sim eval. I do not have a legitimate source other than a captain I flew with who said (and I'm paraphrasing): "trust me bro".

The main thing is the airlines don’t pay more for experience, so in the context of who was hired first obviously experience should count but in the context of an agreement to hire 60%, experience level is not relevant and makes no difference in who is more deserving of those spots.
Had Air Canada simply hired as many experienced pilots as they could and then fulfilled their obligations to the Jazz pilots, I actually would support that fully. Once they realized they didn’t, all hiring should have been from Jazz until they caught up, if they couldn’t because that would empty Jazz, then they should have taken the necessary steps to fix that.
That was the whole entire point of our long term agreement, knowing full well they would have trouble hiring into Jazz at the rates, we were comfortable knowing they would need to fix the problem. They chose to ignore the problem and let it get worse and worse.

I'm definitely with you there. If there was an agreement in place for flow, whatever the agreed upon rate, it should have been followed. As a former Express pilot who was attempting AC thru the PML once upon a time, I fully sympathize with the Jazz group. I have not been keeping up recently with the new hire demographic but has the 30% flow at least been honored or no?

[Canadaflyer46]

Also heard the FAA might enforce the 1500hr rule to Canadian airlines flying into the US. That will really throw a wrench into things and Jazz is mostly hiring FO with under 1000 hours now.

This would be fantastic but I’m not holding my breath. It took the regional pilots in the US from food stamps to $200k signing bonuses.
Amazes me that the FAA won’t allow a 66 year old WJ pilot to overfly Maine, but they’ll allow a 500 hour Encore pilot to land in SEA.

[cdnavater]

You're last statement is accurate. The experience pool is in fact drying up very quickly and Jazz hires coming on the property are just as, if not sometimes more experienced than OTS hires. Especially from an AC operational experience perspective. However this was not the case between 2022-23. To be clear, I'm NOT implying any one hire group is better than the other (because I'm with you, that's just arrogant), but a majority of OTS hires in that date range were in fact more experienced. I used the new hire bios data for that information.

I've heard that hiring requirements are being dropped to 1500 hours and a sim eval. I do not have a legitimate source other than a captain I flew with who said (and I'm paraphrasing): "trust me bro".

The main thing is the airlines don’t pay more for experience, so in the context of who was hired first obviously experience should count but in the context of an agreement to hire 60%, experience level is not relevant and makes no difference in who is more deserving of those spots.
Had Air Canada simply hired as many experienced pilots as they could and then fulfilled their obligations to the Jazz pilots, I actually would support that fully. Once they realized they didn’t, all hiring should have been from Jazz until they caught up, if they couldn’t because that would empty Jazz, then they should have taken the necessary steps to fix that.
That was the whole entire point of our long term agreement, knowing full well they would have trouble hiring into Jazz at the rates, we were comfortable knowing they would need to fix the problem. They chose to ignore the problem and let it get worse and worse.

I'm definitely with you there. If there was an agreement in place for flow, whatever the agreed upon rate, it should have been followed. As a former Express pilot who was attempting AC thru the PML once upon a time, I fully sympathize with the Jazz group. I have not been keeping up recently with the new hire demographic but has the 30% flow at least been honored or no?

As far as I know they haven’t caught up on the 60% flow, the 30% is for those hired after September and I don’t believe any of them would be qualified yet, maybe a few that had 2000 hours when hired and I do mean a few.

[702pipeliner]

As far as I know very few (like an incredibly small number) guys have moved over this year from Jazz. Those guys being from seniority numbers of groups who have already left.

A large portion of those hired to jazz in 2022 met and exceeded the minimum requirements for ac before coming to jazz. I know personally a few have been interviewed but the goal posts keep moving back on interview dates for others. Especially lynx going under a group of people were meant to interview in March but as far as I am aware they haven't even got interviews for April.

[a2btrail]

April 3 class starts tomorrow

Calls are also going out for April 17th class

Both classes are full.

[Daigo]

April 3 class starts tomorrow

Calls are also going out for April 17th class

Both classes are full.

Just got the call

Do you know what positions would be available?

[rudder]

Latest bid is out. The ‘arc of growth’ is definitely starting to flatten.

[a2btrail]

April 3 class starts tomorrow

Calls are also going out for April 17th class

Both classes are full.

Just got the call

Do you know what positions would be available?

Congrats! 80% you will be offered YYZ narrowbody FO or widebody RP positions. Most vacancies are in YYZ. Limited positions avial in YUL. Slightly more in YVR. None in YWG. However crew manning will ultimately determine what positions they are willing to offer.

[a2btrail]

Latest bid is out. The ‘arc of growth’ is definitely starting to flatten.

Sure is, as expected.

[joefo]

Latest bid is out. The ‘arc of growth’ is definitely starting to flatten.

The lack of movement and growth in this bid is purely due to negots.

[flyingcanuck]

Latest bid is out. The ‘arc of growth’ is definitely starting to flatten.

The lack of movement and growth in this bid is purely due to negots.

and we severely need more planes

[IntensivePurposes]

Long time lurker here — an acquaintance’s son just made Captain (320) after two years on the property...28 years old. Admittedly, he must be pretty junior and have a crap schedule, but but I thought: pretty good deal and coin for a 28year old. He came from the corporate world.