Dash to E2 left seat upgrading

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Bryce55
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Dash to E2 left seat upgrading

Post by Bryce55 »

Does anyone know is you’re able to upgrade left seat to left seat, or do you need to be right seat on it for a bit and then move over?

If it’s not available right now will it be in the future you think?

Thanks
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flyinhigh
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Re: Dash to E2 left seat upgrading

Post by flyinhigh »

Yes, most are going left seat to left seat.

There is about a dozen that went left seat to right seat. That said, the transition is as slow as watching paint dry.
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Chaxterium
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Re: Dash to E2 left seat upgrading

Post by Chaxterium »

There is currently no approved upgrade program for the E2 so the only way to go left seat on the E2 is to move directly into the left seat. The company is working on the upgrade program and I don't think it'll be too much longer before it's in place.
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Bryce55
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Re: Dash to E2 left seat upgrading

Post by Bryce55 »

Thank you both much appreciated
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CaptDukeNukem
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Re: Dash to E2 left seat upgrading

Post by CaptDukeNukem »

Upgrade course is in the works from what I hear. Needs a tad more time then TC approval. And well…. It’s TC
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BaldChewbacca
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Re: Dash to E2 left seat upgrading

Post by BaldChewbacca »

Just for more clarity though, the company only transfers Dash captains to the jet at 3 per month. So unless you have seniority, it'll be a looong time until moving over.
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CaptDukeNukem
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Re: Dash to E2 left seat upgrading

Post by CaptDukeNukem »

BaldChewbacca wrote: Sun Feb 25, 2024 11:12 am Just for more clarity though, the company only transfers Dash captains to the jet at 3 per month. So unless you have seniority, it'll be a looong time until moving over.
Just to clarify more, the MINIMUM is 3 transfers per month. Presently that’s what they are doing.
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Av8andsleep
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Re: Dash to E2 left seat upgrading

Post by Av8andsleep »

BaldChewbacca wrote: Sun Feb 25, 2024 11:12 am Just for more clarity though, the company only transfers Dash captains to the jet at 3 per month. So unless you have seniority, it'll be a looong time until moving over.
And how long will that take assuming you are hired today (dash fo)
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lowoleo22
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Re: Dash to E2 left seat upgrading

Post by lowoleo22 »

And how long will that take assuming you are hired today (dash fo)
1-2 years to upgrade from Dash FO to CA (depending on your hours and experience), then 2-3 years to flow to E2 CA (depending on the current flow agreement and as long as there are no changes during that time).
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flyinhigh
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Re: Dash to E2 left seat upgrading

Post by flyinhigh »

CaptDukeNukem wrote: Mon Feb 26, 2024 7:57 pm
BaldChewbacca wrote: Sun Feb 25, 2024 11:12 am Just for more clarity though, the company only transfers Dash captains to the jet at 3 per month. So unless you have seniority, it'll be a looong time until moving over.
Just to clarify more, the MINIMUM is 3 transfers per month. Presently that’s what they are doing.
He is not wrong, any pilot to which goes to the DH8 will be waiting for ALONG time to flow as they are ONLY flowing 3 per month. The minimum aspect has nothing to do with it as that is what they are doing.

For a pilot to come in today on the DH8, they are realistically looking at most likely 5 years to flow.
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cdnavater
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Re: Dash to E2 left seat upgrading

Post by cdnavater »

flyinhigh wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2024 4:35 pm
CaptDukeNukem wrote: Mon Feb 26, 2024 7:57 pm
BaldChewbacca wrote: Sun Feb 25, 2024 11:12 am Just for more clarity though, the company only transfers Dash captains to the jet at 3 per month. So unless you have seniority, it'll be a looong time until moving over.
Just to clarify more, the MINIMUM is 3 transfers per month. Presently that’s what they are doing.
He is not wrong, any pilot to which goes to the DH8 will be waiting for ALONG time to flow as they are ONLY flowing 3 per month. The minimum aspect has nothing to do with it as that is what they are doing.

For a pilot to come in today on the DH8, they are realistically looking at most likely 5 years to flow.
Your english lesson for the day.

Along- joined or carried with something. A long- this is used to describe something that is long. example. We crossed a long road on foot, last night
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flyinhigh
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Re: Dash to E2 left seat upgrading

Post by flyinhigh »

Ah gee tanks 4 teaching praper grammer and tanking de time and 4 nothing and ading noting to DIS discustion.
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cdnavater
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Re: Dash to E2 left seat upgrading

Post by cdnavater »

flyinhigh wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2024 6:40 pm Ah gee tanks 4 teaching praper grammer and tanking de time and 4 nothing and ading noting to DIS discustion.
U r welkum.
5 years seems long, maybe they should come to Jazz. Left seat jet within 3 years. There I added something, happy?
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lowoleo22
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Re: Dash to E2 left seat upgrading

Post by lowoleo22 »

cdnavater wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2024 7:18 pm
flyinhigh wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2024 6:40 pm Ah gee tanks 4 teaching praper grammer and tanking de time and 4 nothing and ading noting to DIS discustion.
5 years seems long, maybe they should come to Jazz. Left seat jet within 3 years. There I added something, happy?
5 years to $171,000 on the E2
3 years to $107,148 on the E1

I think I'll stay :wink:
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Av8andsleep
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Re: Dash to E2 left seat upgrading

Post by Av8andsleep »

flyinhigh wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2024 4:35 pm
CaptDukeNukem wrote: Mon Feb 26, 2024 7:57 pm
BaldChewbacca wrote: Sun Feb 25, 2024 11:12 am Just for more clarity though, the company only transfers Dash captains to the jet at 3 per month. So unless you have seniority, it'll be a looong time until moving over.
Just to clarify more, the MINIMUM is 3 transfers per month. Presently that’s what they are doing.
He is not wrong, any pilot to which goes to the DH8 will be waiting for ALONG time to flow as they are ONLY flowing 3 per month. The minimum aspect has nothing to do with it as that is what they are doing.

For a pilot to come in today on the DH8, they are realistically looking at most likely 5 years to flow.


I’m confused, I’m hearing 2 years, and I’m hearing 5 years. I’ll take the worst of the two in consideration and believe it’s 5 years.. with that being said, assuming you’re an FO moving over on the E2 after 5 years.. are you starting on the year 5 pay scale? And any idea why I’m hearing 2 years to flow, not that I’m saying you’re wrong, just straight curiosity as to what is going on so myself or anyone reading the forum can make a “calculated” plan for their career
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CaptDukeNukem
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Re: Dash to E2 left seat upgrading

Post by CaptDukeNukem »

Av8andsleep wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2024 8:23 pm
flyinhigh wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2024 4:35 pm
CaptDukeNukem wrote: Mon Feb 26, 2024 7:57 pm

Just to clarify more, the MINIMUM is 3 transfers per month. Presently that’s what they are doing.
He is not wrong, any pilot to which goes to the DH8 will be waiting for ALONG time to flow as they are ONLY flowing 3 per month. The minimum aspect has nothing to do with it as that is what they are doing.

For a pilot to come in today on the DH8, they are realistically looking at most likely 5 years to flow.


I’m confused, I’m hearing 2 years, and I’m hearing 5 years. I’ll take the worst of the two in consideration and believe it’s 5 years.. with that being said, assuming you’re an FO moving over on the E2 after 5 years.. are you starting on the year 5 pay scale? And any idea why I’m hearing 2 years to flow, not that I’m saying you’re wrong, just straight curiosity as to what is going on so myself or anyone reading the forum can make a “calculated” plan for their career
The minimum transfer of 3 per month relates to dash captains going over to the jet. Presently, I don’t think anyone knows how long it would be go to dash FO to jet FO. I think it would be a matter of fleet lock tbh. 70 more tails coming, I assume it’ll happen faster than ALONGER.
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carnie
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Re: Dash to E2 left seat upgrading

Post by carnie »

FOs are now restricted to 3 a month plus new hires have a 2 year fleet lock on type although that may have changed as of late.
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flyinhigh
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Re: Dash to E2 left seat upgrading

Post by flyinhigh »

carnie wrote: Sun Mar 24, 2024 2:59 am FOs are now restricted to 3 a month plus new hires have a 2 year fleet lock on type although that may have changed as of late.
Exactly. The 3 a month includes FO's, it is not just Captains.
Av8andsleep wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2024 8:23 pm I’m confused, I’m hearing 2 years, and I’m hearing 5 years. I’ll take the worst of the two in consideration and believe it’s 5 years.. with that being said, assuming you’re an FO moving over on the E2 after 5 years.. are you starting on the year 5 pay scale? And any idea why I’m hearing 2 years to flow, not that I’m saying you’re wrong, just straight curiosity as to what is going on so myself or anyone reading the forum can make a “calculated” plan for their career
It is simple math really. Just as Westjet said about flow back in the day from Encore to Mainline being 2 years, yet the 2 year flow was NEVER a reality.

There is a 2 year fleet lock on the DH8 for one so that ties you down. Additionally, there is call it 300 pilots on the DH8 currently, at 3 a month, well you get the idea. Take into attrition you will likely be around 5 years.

Reality is, yes there is lots of aircraft still coming in the E2, but coming from the DH8 quickly is not going to occur. We have a fleet of 29 DH8 aircraft that HAVE to fly regardless of what we pilots think and no judge, arbitrator, or mediator would shut down a fleet of aircraft to appease a group of pilots.

If the company can stabilize the DH8 roster then yes, maybe they will flow more people but the attrition rate on the DH8 precludes that.
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flyinhigh
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Re: Dash to E2 left seat upgrading

Post by flyinhigh »

lowoleo22 wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2024 7:39 pm
cdnavater wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2024 7:18 pm
flyinhigh wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2024 6:40 pm Ah gee tanks 4 teaching praper grammer and tanking de time and 4 nothing and ading noting to DIS discustion.
5 years seems long, maybe they should come to Jazz. Left seat jet within 3 years. There I added something, happy?
5 years to $171,000 on the E2
3 years to $107,148 on the E1

I think I'll stay :wink:
Kicker is now that if you have previous 705 time (i.e, Jazz) you'll most likely come in E2 FO or E2 Capt if you have E1 experience. E2 FO is 103K on year 3, however at that point there is a high likely you would be a Captain by then, if not year 4 is 112K.

In addition, our deductions are significantly lower than Jazz uplifting your take home to far surpass Jazz pilots.

Now if a pilot does come over as a DEC on the DH8, our starting wage is now 100K which is nothing to shake a stick at (although could be higher).

I am in no way a huge kool-aid drinker of the Porter Wine like some are, however when it comes to pay, there really is ZERO comparison in all facets, unless you are legacy Jazz and have the defined benefit. Long term, at Porter you will FAR out do any Jazz scale.
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cdnavater
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Re: Dash to E2 left seat upgrading

Post by cdnavater »

flyinhigh wrote: Sun Mar 24, 2024 5:50 pm
lowoleo22 wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2024 7:39 pm
cdnavater wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2024 7:18 pm
5 years seems long, maybe they should come to Jazz. Left seat jet within 3 years. There I added something, happy?
5 years to $171,000 on the E2
3 years to $107,148 on the E1

I think I'll stay :wink:
Kicker is now that if you have previous 705 time (i.e, Jazz) you'll most likely come in E2 FO or E2 Capt if you have E1 experience. E2 FO is 103K on year 3, however at that point there is a high likely you would be a Captain by then, if not year 4 is 112K.

In addition, our deductions are significantly lower than Jazz uplifting your take home to far surpass Jazz pilots.

Now if a pilot does come over as a DEC on the DH8, our starting wage is now 100K which is nothing to shake a stick at (although could be higher).

I am in no way a huge kool-aid drinker of the Porter Wine like some are, however when it comes to pay, there really is ZERO comparison in all facets, unless you are legacy Jazz and have the defined benefit. Long term, at Porter you will FAR out do any Jazz scale.
Flyinhigh, is your information out of date?
Jazz deductions are STD and pension, everything else would be the same as any other company because it’s called income tax.
Are you saying because you don’t have a pension, you take more money home, then yes I agree!
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braaap Braap
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Re: Dash to E2 left seat upgrading

Post by braaap Braap »

Av8andsleep wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2024 8:23 pm
I’m confused, I’m hearing 2 years, and I’m hearing 5 years. I’ll take the worst of the two in consideration and believe it’s 5 years.. with that being said, assuming you’re an FO moving over on the E2 after 5 years.. are you starting on the year 5 pay scale? And any idea why I’m hearing 2 years to flow, not that I’m saying you’re wrong, just straight curiosity as to what is going on so myself or anyone reading the forum can make a “calculated” plan for their career
You're confused. We're confused. Everyone's confused. As Flyinhigh mentioned, there are like 135 Dash Captains and 200 Dash FOs who are all ahead of you. Divide the FO number alone by 3/month = 66 months or 5.5 years. Upgrade to the Dash side after a year or so and its longer than that. 335/3= 111 months or over 9 years - I'll be nice and say take 2/3rds of that. 6 years.

That being said, the flow number continues to go more and more junior with a surprising number electing to stay on the Dash (outstations mostly but a fair number in YTZ).

This is what not having a contract gets you. Confusion for the labour groups and management doing whatever they want; while we throw pebbles in the ocean with our FOAG process and emails to accounts that go unresolved (payroll, scheduling, staff travel, etc).

If you're coming here and interested in ending up on the E2 just wait the extra few months it'll take to get the experience required to go straight to the E2.
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Re: Dash to E2 left seat upgrading

Post by rudder »

cdnavater wrote: Sun Mar 24, 2024 6:51 pm
flyinhigh wrote: Sun Mar 24, 2024 5:50 pm
lowoleo22 wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2024 7:39 pm

5 years to $171,000 on the E2
3 years to $107,148 on the E1

I think I'll stay :wink:
Kicker is now that if you have previous 705 time (i.e, Jazz) you'll most likely come in E2 FO or E2 Capt if you have E1 experience. E2 FO is 103K on year 3, however at that point there is a high likely you would be a Captain by then, if not year 4 is 112K.

In addition, our deductions are significantly lower than Jazz uplifting your take home to far surpass Jazz pilots.

Now if a pilot does come over as a DEC on the DH8, our starting wage is now 100K which is nothing to shake a stick at (although could be higher).

I am in no way a huge kool-aid drinker of the Porter Wine like some are, however when it comes to pay, there really is ZERO comparison in all facets, unless you are legacy Jazz and have the defined benefit. Long term, at Porter you will FAR out do any Jazz scale.
Flyinhigh, is your information out of date?
Jazz deductions are STD and pension, everything else would be the same as any other company because it’s called income tax.
Are you saying because you don’t have a pension, you take more money home, then yes I agree!
Income tax, CPP/QPP, and EI are statutory deductions. Both retirement contributions and union dues are tax deductible resulting in a rebate at tax time at your respective top marginal tax rate.

Regardless, Porter pay compensation outstrips Jazz by a significant amount. Porter should however make available a ‘career based’ retirement vehicle. If it is going to remain a DC Plan, then it should be 9/9 matching from Day 1 with vesting based on Federal standards. Some statutory contributory limits may apply to the highest income earners.
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