Pro and Cons of Westjet vs Porter (E2) in YVR?
How long is Westjet FO to Capt NB to upgrade? What about Porter's E2?
For Westjet, what is the FO/Capt (any difference?) time to move to WB FO? And are your YOS payscale transferred over from NB to WB? How would going from NB Capt to WB FO work for the scale then?
Lastly, unlike Air Canada, you can't go straight FO WB with Westjet even with super high hrs correct?
Westjet vs Porter E2 YVR
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Canadaflyer46
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Re: Westjet vs Porter E2 YVR
Currently around 10 years seniority for the most junior captain at WJ. Most junior 787 FO is around the 9 year mark. 737 CA pay is significantly higher than 787 FO pay. Company was too cheap to pay industry standard for widebody FOs, so the 787 here is a training ground with most FOs only staying a year and then coming back to the 737 for the left seat.
Re: Westjet vs Porter E2 YVR
Why wouldn't 737 FO's go straight captain and have to go to 787 just to return to 737?Canadaflyer46 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2024 8:22 pm Currently around 10 years seniority for the most junior captain at WJ. Most junior 787 FO is around the 9 year mark. 737 CA pay is significantly higher than 787 FO pay. Company was too cheap to pay industry standard for widebody FOs, so the 787 here is a training ground with most FOs only staying a year and then coming back to the 737 for the left seat.
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Canadaflyer46
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Re: Westjet vs Porter E2 YVR
Because 787FO pays a lot more than 737FO. But then a year later you can hold captain on the 737, which is 100k more. Most airlines don’t have that huge disparity in pay so a lot of people will stay widebody FO for lifestyle reasons.Me262 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 30, 2024 2:08 pmWhy wouldn't 737 FO's go straight captain and have to go to 787 just to return to 737?Canadaflyer46 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2024 8:22 pm Currently around 10 years seniority for the most junior captain at WJ. Most junior 787 FO is around the 9 year mark. 737 CA pay is significantly higher than 787 FO pay. Company was too cheap to pay industry standard for widebody FOs, so the 787 here is a training ground with most FOs only staying a year and then coming back to the 737 for the left seat.
Re: Westjet vs Porter E2 YVR
Ok, so it seems for WB lifestyle only AC is an option, considering it takes years to upgrade and AC pays significantly better as an FO on WB after several years.
Re: Westjet vs Porter E2 YVR
Yes, a buddy at AC was wide body FO and it was a difficult decision to go narrow body left seat because the pay was not significantly better. Giving up senior FO to go junior Captain is a money decision for most, it is better but is it enough to justify the loss of lifestyle.
I’m my opinion, WJ wanted it this way so there was incentive for qualified pilots to take the left seat. Some US companies and AC to an extent are upgrading much more junior pilots because the pay and lifestyle are a little too good as FO wide body.
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RRJetPilot
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Re: Westjet vs Porter E2 YVR
The pay and lifestyle are not too good as a Wide Body FO. The problem is the pay and lifestyle of a NB captain is brutal in comparison. There needs to be a bigger gap and they need the make the NB captain position more appealing with the amount of work and responsibility you hold.Some US companies and AC to an extent are upgrading much more junior pilots because the pay and lifestyle are a little too good as FO wide body.
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Stratopaused
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Re: Westjet vs Porter E2 YVR
WestJet also uses a socialized bidding system, so there isn't really any reason for someone to stay on the 787 as an FO when they could upgrade. There's no benefit for scheduling or vacation, and they would be giving up the money that goes with it. The only factor that seniority affects could be the availability of a captain position at a specific base, but otherwise there's no reason not to upgrade as soon as possible. It's not like AC where staying a senior FO can give you a nice lifestyle, and you can wait to upgrade until your seniority allows you to have just as nice a lifestyle as a captain.
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Canadaflyer46
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Re: Westjet vs Porter E2 YVR
True, the only aside to this is several 787FOs delay their 737 left seat until they can be off reserve and hold a block. This is especially true for commuters. It's currently 16 years seniority to hold a block as a YYC captain.Stratopaused wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2024 11:39 am WestJet also uses a socialized bidding system, so there isn't really any reason for someone to stay on the 787 as an FO when they could upgrade. There's no benefit for scheduling or vacation, and they would be giving up the money that goes with it. The only factor that seniority affects could be the availability of a captain position at a specific base, but otherwise there's no reason not to upgrade as soon as possible. It's not like AC where staying a senior FO can give you a nice lifestyle, and you can wait to upgrade until your seniority allows you to have just as nice a lifestyle as a captain.
Re: Westjet vs Porter E2 YVR
A few quick comments.
The WJ 787 FO position and the AC WB FO position isn't exactly an apples to apples comparison. Because of seniority scheduling at AC vs. socialized at WJ, flat pay at AC and the ability for initial hires to go on the WB compared to step pay at WJ and the requirement to have 2 years of WJ 737 experience before going on the 787, the 'starting' point on the WB is very different. i.e. a WJ pilot waiting 7 years to move onto the WB has a much better lifestyle than an AC initial hire being assigned a 787 FO position. However, a 7th year AC 787 pilot likely has a comparable, if not better, lifestyle than a WJ 787 FO.
As for WJ v Porter - in my opinion it comes down to whether you think the Deluce's E2 gamble will be successful. Porter has a great product and there's plenty to like about the E2 and their growth plans. But at the same time, moving to a new growing airline always carries a certain amount of risk. But, with that risk comes the potential for a better reward of quick upgrades and a strong financial future - just ask some of the really early WestJet pilots.
The counter is that WestJet is quite established, has a strong financial backing (at the moment at least, though the plan is for Onex to eventually resell part or all of the airline) and the despite the slower rate of upgrades, it still is growing.
If you received offers from both on the same day, that's a good problem to have.
The WJ 787 FO position and the AC WB FO position isn't exactly an apples to apples comparison. Because of seniority scheduling at AC vs. socialized at WJ, flat pay at AC and the ability for initial hires to go on the WB compared to step pay at WJ and the requirement to have 2 years of WJ 737 experience before going on the 787, the 'starting' point on the WB is very different. i.e. a WJ pilot waiting 7 years to move onto the WB has a much better lifestyle than an AC initial hire being assigned a 787 FO position. However, a 7th year AC 787 pilot likely has a comparable, if not better, lifestyle than a WJ 787 FO.
As for WJ v Porter - in my opinion it comes down to whether you think the Deluce's E2 gamble will be successful. Porter has a great product and there's plenty to like about the E2 and their growth plans. But at the same time, moving to a new growing airline always carries a certain amount of risk. But, with that risk comes the potential for a better reward of quick upgrades and a strong financial future - just ask some of the really early WestJet pilots.
The counter is that WestJet is quite established, has a strong financial backing (at the moment at least, though the plan is for Onex to eventually resell part or all of the airline) and the despite the slower rate of upgrades, it still is growing.
If you received offers from both on the same day, that's a good problem to have.
