List of lower end of bond & training agreement amounts

[Janitroll]

List of lower end of bond & training agreement amounts in Canadian dollars


Cessna 206 or smaller – no bond

Cessna 337 - no bond

floats - no bond

fire- no bond

Cessna 208 Caravan – no bond Morningstar

PC-12 – fo no bond most companies, captain bond some companies, no captain bond @ Ornge

Aero commander – no bond fo or captain

Navajo – fo no bond, captain bond $6000 1 year

Metro – fo $6000 bond 1 year, no bond for upgrading captain

King Air – fo $8000 bond 1 year

1900 - $9500 bond 1 year fo

no bond on King Air/1900 Metro if you worked ramp or office


Dash or ATR – Jazz, Encore, Porter, Canadian North, Morningstar – no bond for captain or fo,
calm fo bond $12,000, 24 months - no bond to upgrade

Learjet, Citation, Hawker, Westwind initial type rating -$14000 canadian @ Simcom, $20000@CAE

Airliner – no bond captain or fo




Some companies ask for 2 year bonds over $15000 on a King Air Metro. You should ask them in the interview why their bond is double other companies doing 1 year $6000 to $8000 bonds.

Please share names of any companies hiring with lower bonds

[GodlvlPilot]

Where are you getting this data or are you stating your current dreams.

King air bonds specifically for the 200 the norm is 10-15k up to 25k depending If you go to sim. The metro bond info is also erroneous see Carson and Perimeter are much more then that.

I understand bonds suck. But post some useful info backed up by which companies state what. Just because one company is posting a lower bond then another doesn't assume there is only one bond. What about recurrent training/pro rated bonds?

[lownslow]

Notice the places without bonds are typically seasonal work.

[Janitroll]

King air bonds specifically for the 200 the norm is 10-15k up to 25k depending If you go to sim. The metro bond info is also erroneous see Carson and Perimeter are much more then that.

Doesn’t perimeter have a sim?

If the bond's to reflect training, and running the sim with instructor costs $200/hour, how can the metro bond exceed 6000?

In the Wasaya cba the bond B1900 is $9500 - same category as metro.

There're companies bonding Metro, B1900, king air at less than $10000.

post from January has a pilot asking about signing a $9000 king air bond.

Even the Calm Air cba in the posts above has the ATR bond 12000


There are jobs without bonds & ones with bonds below $10000 for a king air or metro.
Multiple PC-12 jobs without bond



Where did you get the $25000? Which companies are over $10000 for a king air?

[lownslow]

About seven years ago the cost to train a Metro pilot was well north of $20k a head ($34k comes to mind but I’m not committing to it) whether you did it entirely on wing or sent them to a place like Flight Safety. Sims ain’t cheap.

[TurkeyFarmYQX]

What is this list? Hopes and dreams? What bonds should be in a just and fair world?

Most of the EIC companies have bonds on their planes, most King Air operators bond their employees as well.

[Bede]

About seven years ago the cost to train a Metro pilot was well north of $20k a head ($34k comes to mind but I’m not committing to it) whether you did it entirely on wing or sent them to a place like Flight Safety. Sims ain’t cheap.

Interesting. My employer has always told us that training doesn't cost anything....

[Janitroll]

What is this list? Hopes and dreams? What bonds should be in a just and fair world?

Most of the EIC companies have bonds on their planes, most King Air operators bond their employees as well.

Ornge – pc12 - no bond
Mag – 172, 337, DA42, aerocommander, king air – no bond, instead they have a bonus
Morningstar – caravan, ATR – no bond
Canadian North – ATR, 737 – no bond
Encore, Jazz, Porter – q400 – no bond
Wasaya – caravan, pc12, B1900 - $9500 bond one year duration, decreasing with time employed
Perimeter – metro - $6000 bond, one year, decreasing with time employed
Another poster mentioned their February king air bond at $9000

There're many company without bonds or signing at less than $10000

[HFNav]

Interesting. My employer has always told us that training doesn't cost anything....

Compared to other costs, pilot training is small .

For training, the employer deducts the pilot training costs in their taxes

Training eventually isn't a company cost,

The bonds aren't needed. They're to lock pilots from leaving, unrelated to company costs.

Too many pilots argue in favour of bonds.

[HFNav]

Ornge – pc12 - no bond
Mag – 172, 337, DA42, aerocommander, king air – no bond, instead they have a bonus
Morningstar – caravan, ATR – no bond
Canadian North – ATR, 737 – no bond
Encore, Jazz, Porter – q400 – no bond
Wasaya – caravan, pc12, B1900 - $9500 bond one year duration, decreasing with time employed
Perimeter – metro - $6000 bond, one year, decreasing with time employed
Another poster mentioned their February king air bond at $9000

There're many company without bonds or signing at less than $10000

At 500 - 750 hours you should be able to find an employer without a bond.
No needs to sign for most multi captain jobs.

[goldeneagle]

For training, the employer deducts the pilot training costs in their taxes

Training eventually isn't a company cost,

Says he who doesn't understand how the tax system works.

Yes, training is a valid business expense, so it's deducted from gross income before calculating net income. That doesn't mean it costs nothing, that money has to be spent before it can be deducted. Deducting from gross income doesn't mean it's free at all, it just means you are not paying income tax on that piece because it was spent in the process of running the business.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised, it's amazing to me at times how clueless many folks here are around how the finances of a business actually work. Guess that's why they are just hired help and not in a position to manage that cashflow.

[Me262]

https://youtu.be/XEL65gywwHQ?si=cdpmyjNY1_7rZmR7

It's a write off

[HFNav]

Yes, training is a valid business expense, so it's deducted from gross income before calculating net income. That doesn't mean it costs nothing, that money has to be spent before it can be deducted. Deducting from gross income doesn't mean it's free at all, it just means you are not paying income tax on that piece because it was spent in the process of running the business.

If government didn’t allow this, the company would pay the full cost of training & without benefit from deductions

& the airlines can access other government tax credits for the training

The tax process allows the airline to avoid the full cost of training

Consequently, pilots shouldn’t be paying or signing bonds for the full training cost

[goldeneagle]

The tax process allows the airline to avoid the full cost of training

No, it just means the cost of training is paid from revenue prior to calculation of profits, and that's because training is indeed a necessary expense to run the business.

But carry on in your delusional world of make believe free money, come back and tell us about it at some point in time in the future after you have been operating a company for a few years and start to understand how a business works, the difference between gross revenue and net revenue, what is taxable and what is not.

[HFNav]

The tax process allows the airline to avoid the full cost of training

No, it just means the cost of training is paid from revenue prior to calculation of profits,

Then the taxes are reduced & company profits are higher

[Conflicting Traffic]

The tax process allows the airline to avoid the full cost of training

No, it just means the cost of training is paid from revenue prior to calculation of profits,

Then the taxes are reduced & company profits are higher

No. Taxes are reduced *BECAUSE* profits are reduced. You don't pay taxes on revenue, you pay them on profits.

At a 20% tax rate, if I bring in $1000 and have no expenses, I pay $200 in taxes on $1000 profit -- leaving $800 in net after-tax profit. If I bring in the same $1000 but spend $200 training an employee, I have $800 in (before-tax) profit and spend $160 in taxes -- for a net after-tax profit of $640. So the total real cost of training this employee is $160. In case it isn't clear to you, $640 is *NOT* higher profit than $800.

I hope you're just trolling. But the idea that there may be grownups who don't understand this would explain a lot about the state of this country.

[HFNav]

.

[HFNav]

If I bring in the same $1000 but spend $200 training an employee, I have $800 in (before-tax) profit and spend $160 in taxes -- for a net after-tax profit of $640. So the total real cost of training this employee is $160.

In your example, "the total real cost of training this employee is $160."

Then the pilot should sign a $160 bond & not a $200 bond

[ellinas]

What if you sign a training and work contract for a particular base of my choice and then after training they say sorry you have to work in this base because!

If you decide to leave do you still pay the training bond , curious

[digits_]

What if you sign a training and work contract for a particular base of my choice and then after training they say sorry you have to work in this base because!

If you decide to leave do you still pay the training bond , curious

You could likely claim constrictive dismissal in which case most bonds will be void.

That obviously won't work if you agreed to work wherever they needed you. But if you have it in writing they offered you base A and are now forcing you to move to base B I would think you've got a case. But I am not a lawyer.