Should I go to Jazz?

[rudder]

The near term future of Jazz is contained on page 14 of the AC Q1 2024 MD&A.

https://filecache.investorroom.com/mr5i ... da_MDA.pdf

AC doesn’t bother to break down Jazz vs PAL Express fleet. CRJ200’s are already being ferried to the desert so the numbers referenced in the report are certainly not indicative of actual number of aircraft operated, utilization rates, and therefore associated pilot jobs.

Jazz seems trapped in the average number of required (available?) line pilots of 960. No indications that will change upwards.

Appears that expiring CRJ900 leases in 2025 will see a reduction in the CRJ900 fleet. Also looking at reductions in the Express Q400 fleet as well as prior announcements about retirement of the CRJ200 fleet. And ZERO new equipment orders for Jazz/Express, although the PAL commercial relationship with AC seems to be thriving.

Post-2025 it is more likely than not that Jazz will be a fleet of 80-85 airframes. Assuming that PAL is executing on its commercial obligations better than GGN, it is likely that the volume of Express operations at PAL will increase as well.

History repeating itself.

[cdnavater]

The near term future of Jazz is contained on page 14 of the AC Q1 2024 MD&A.

https://filecache.investorroom.com/mr5i ... da_MDA.pdf

AC doesn’t bother to break down Jazz vs PAL Express fleet. CRJ200’s are already being ferried to the desert so the numbers referenced in the report are certainly not indicative of actual number of aircraft operated, utilization rates, and therefore associated pilot jobs.

Jazz seems trapped in the average number of required (available?) line pilots of 960. No indications that will change upwards.

Appears that expiring CRJ900 leases in 2025 will see a reduction in the CRJ900 fleet. Also looking at reductions in the Express Q400 fleet as well as prior announcements about retirement of the CRJ200 fleet. And ZERO new equipment orders for Jazz/Express, although the PAL commercial relationship with AC seems to be thriving.

Post-2025 it is more likely than not that Jazz will be a fleet of 80-85 airframes. Assuming that PAL is executing on its commercial obligations better than GGN, it is likely that the volume of Express operations at PAL will increase as well.

History repeating itself.

Regarding the CRJ900, they are going in for some major improvements starting this summer, getting outfitted with gate to gate wifi, and the first interior refresh(atmosphere) is scheduled for January. This seems to indicate a future for the fleet.

[Nick678]

Don’t go to Jazz if you want AC. You’ll get to AC faster through other means

I wouldn’t recommend Jazz to my enemies, what a POS company.

I would recommend any 1900/saab/atr operation over that hot mess. Canadian North doesn’t get enough attention as well.

With lynx sinking and flair taking water I can see people attracted to the stability that jazz may provide but just save yourself the pain and avoid. I really hope jazz dies and AC takes back the regional flying.

Hey Nick678, I’m really sorry to hear about your PFO from AC and now you feel stuck, but seriously man Jazz is far better than the above mentioned options.
What do you think would change if AC took back the regional flying? And what do you mean by that, Jazz and its predecessors have always done the regional flying, whether wholly owned or separate entities on behalf of.
You are very bitter and anyth8ng you say about Jazz should be taken at face value, a disgruntled employee.

As for the questions, the “quota” is 30% of AC new hires should come from Jazz. I don’t believe they are caught up on the Jazz pilots who are still under the 60% ratio. New hires at Jazz can expect to wait a while now, my guess and it’s only a guess but 2-4 years it really depends on when the AC hiring goes back to normal, simply covering retirements.

Was never PFO’d from AC and left jazz on my own accord. Like many who wake up and see how crappy jazz is.

AC is already taking some of its regional flying back with the 220, delayed by bad engines but 70 or so jets are coming eventually. Maybe jazz can operate a couple dash 8’s for island hoping. But maybe PAL will get that or CMA down the road. AC has blatantly ignored Jazz’s contract and doesn’t care. Jazz is a contractor like any other.

Nobody from 30% has flowed over and most from the 60% didn’t go on time so why bother mention years? Last I heard was 4-5 years to flow but changes whenever AC wants. Most AC pits have 1900/PC12/RJ85 guys.

Post your “200k” no overtime T4 next year plz.

[cdnavater]

I wouldn’t recommend Jazz to my enemies, what a POS company.

I would recommend any 1900/saab/atr operation over that hot mess. Canadian North doesn’t get enough attention as well.

With lynx sinking and flair taking water I can see people attracted to the stability that jazz may provide but just save yourself the pain and avoid. I really hope jazz dies and AC takes back the regional flying.

Hey Nick678, I’m really sorry to hear about your PFO from AC and now you feel stuck, but seriously man Jazz is far better than the above mentioned options.
What do you think would change if AC took back the regional flying? And what do you mean by that, Jazz and its predecessors have always done the regional flying, whether wholly owned or separate entities on behalf of.
You are very bitter and anyth8ng you say about Jazz should be taken at face value, a disgruntled employee.

As for the questions, the “quota” is 30% of AC new hires should come from Jazz. I don’t believe they are caught up on the Jazz pilots who are still under the 60% ratio. New hires at Jazz can expect to wait a while now, my guess and it’s only a guess but 2-4 years it really depends on when the AC hiring goes back to normal, simply covering retirements.

Was never PFO’d from AC and left jazz on my own accord. Like many who wake up and see how crappy jazz is.

AC is already taking some of its regional flying back with the 220, delayed by bad engines but 70 or so jets are coming eventually. Maybe jazz can operate a couple dash 8’s for island hoping. But maybe PAL will get that or CMA down the road. AC has blatantly ignored Jazz’s contract and doesn’t care. Jazz is a contractor like any other.

Nobody from 30% has flowed over and most from the 60% didn’t go on time so why bother mention years? Last I heard was 4-5 years to flow but changes whenever AC wants. Most AC pits have 1900/PC12/RJ85 guys.

Post your “200k” no overtime T4 next year plz.

Dude, you left Jazz, why are you holding a grudge then? Jazz is a far better company than you insinuate, just be happy you’re not here, we’ll be happy you’re not here and all will be good.
Why would you wish the demise of a company that employs thousands of people, cause you’re a little butt hurt about not flowing, seems pretty fukn petty man!

[Turboprops]

cause you’re a little butt hurt about not flowing, seems pretty fukn petty man!

Spoken like a true green circle senior captain with a DB pension. Are you saying he’s petty because not flowing is a small issue?

[Nick678]

Hey Nick678, I’m really sorry to hear about your PFO from AC and now you feel stuck, but seriously man Jazz is far better than the above mentioned options.
What do you think would change if AC took back the regional flying? And what do you mean by that, Jazz and its predecessors have always done the regional flying, whether wholly owned or separate entities on behalf of.
You are very bitter and anyth8ng you say about Jazz should be taken at face value, a disgruntled employee.

As for the questions, the “quota” is 30% of AC new hires should come from Jazz. I don’t believe they are caught up on the Jazz pilots who are still under the 60% ratio. New hires at Jazz can expect to wait a while now, my guess and it’s only a guess but 2-4 years it really depends on when the AC hiring goes back to normal, simply covering retirements.

Was never PFO’d from AC and left jazz on my own accord. Like many who wake up and see how crappy jazz is.

AC is already taking some of its regional flying back with the 220, delayed by bad engines but 70 or so jets are coming eventually. Maybe jazz can operate a couple dash 8’s for island hoping. But maybe PAL will get that or CMA down the road. AC has blatantly ignored Jazz’s contract and doesn’t care. Jazz is a contractor like any other.

Nobody from 30% has flowed over and most from the 60% didn’t go on time so why bother mention years? Last I heard was 4-5 years to flow but changes whenever AC wants. Most AC pits have 1900/PC12/RJ85 guys.

Post your “200k” no overtime T4 next year plz.

Dude, you left Jazz, why are you holding a grudge then? Jazz is a far better company than you insinuate, just be happy you’re not here, we’ll be happy you’re not here and all will be good.
Why would you wish the demise of a company that employs thousands of people, cause you’re a little butt hurt about not flowing, seems pretty fukn petty man!

Keep in mind this is on a thread labelled “should I go to jazz”

I would hate for someone to come here and read your brand of bs and consider applying.

[CaptDukeNukem]

I wouldn’t recommend Jazz to my enemies, what a POS company.

I would recommend any 1900/saab/atr operation over that hot mess. Canadian North doesn’t get enough attention as well.

With lynx sinking and flair taking water I can see people attracted to the stability that jazz may provide but just save yourself the pain and avoid. I really hope jazz dies and AC takes back the regional flying.

Hey Nick678, I’m really sorry to hear about your PFO from AC and now you feel stuck, but seriously man Jazz is far better than the above mentioned options.
What do you think would change if AC took back the regional flying? And what do you mean by that, Jazz and its predecessors have always done the regional flying, whether wholly owned or separate entities on behalf of.
You are very bitter and anyth8ng you say about Jazz should be taken at face value, a disgruntled employee.

As for the questions, the “quota” is 30% of AC new hires should come from Jazz. I don’t believe they are caught up on the Jazz pilots who are still under the 60% ratio. New hires at Jazz can expect to wait a while now, my guess and it’s only a guess but 2-4 years it really depends on when the AC hiring goes back to normal, simply covering retirements.

Was never PFO’d from AC and left jazz on my own accord. Like many who wake up and see how crappy jazz is.

AC is already taking some of its regional flying back with the 220, delayed by bad engines but 70 or so jets are coming eventually. Maybe jazz can operate a couple dash 8’s for island hoping. But maybe PAL will get that or CMA down the road. AC has blatantly ignored Jazz’s contract and doesn’t care. Jazz is a contractor like any other.

Nobody from 30% has flowed over and most from the 60% didn’t go on time so why bother mention years? Last I heard was 4-5 years to flow but changes whenever AC wants. Most AC pits have 1900/PC12/RJ85 guys.

Post your “200k” no overtime T4 next year plz.

Great move nick, you won’t regret it. I haven’t. Jazz is horrible. Nothing but lies and old people who still think it’s air nova.

Cdnavater just likes to think that everything is hunky dory at jazz cuz he does make 200k a year with a DB pension and enjoys shitting on the young.

[cdnavater]

cause you’re a little butt hurt about not flowing, seems pretty fukn petty man!

Spoken like a true green circle senior captain with a DB pension. Are you saying he’s petty because not flowing is a small issue?

No, I’m saying he is petty for wishing ill will on an entire company because it didn’t work out for him.
Flow is a big issue and is being dealt with, had he stayed maybe he was part of the first grievance, it seems like he didn’t speed up the process by leaving, still not at AC.
For clarity, I’m super pissed at both AC and Jazz management for not abiding by what was agreed to, but I don’t wish for the complete demise of the companies, I suppose it has something to do with not wanting myself or the thousands upon thousands of people who would lose their livelihood.

[cdnavater]

Was never PFO’d from AC and left jazz on my own accord. Like many who wake up and see how crappy jazz is.

AC is already taking some of its regional flying back with the 220, delayed by bad engines but 70 or so jets are coming eventually. Maybe jazz can operate a couple dash 8’s for island hoping. But maybe PAL will get that or CMA down the road. AC has blatantly ignored Jazz’s contract and doesn’t care. Jazz is a contractor like any other.

Nobody from 30% has flowed over and most from the 60% didn’t go on time so why bother mention years? Last I heard was 4-5 years to flow but changes whenever AC wants. Most AC pits have 1900/PC12/RJ85 guys.

Post your “200k” no overtime T4 next year plz.

Dude, you left Jazz, why are you holding a grudge then? Jazz is a far better company than you insinuate, just be happy you’re not here, we’ll be happy you’re not here and all will be good.
Why would you wish the demise of a company that employs thousands of people, cause you’re a little butt hurt about not flowing, seems pretty fukn petty man!

Keep in mind this is on a thread labelled “should I go to jazz”

I would hate for someone to come here and read your brand of bs and consider applying.

I do find it interesting that you blame Jazz for the whole thing, you seem misinformed about it.
The amount of control exerted by AC is being tested with the CIRB right now, hopefully some light will be shed.
Jazz is not the same company it was when you left, the pay for new hires is almost livable and will go up again, I would put money on that.
It’s time to move on from your vendetta, besides I sincerely doubt the pilots coming to Jazz are making decisions based on a disgruntled ex employee spouting off on avcanada.

[Nick678]

Dude, you left Jazz, why are you holding a grudge then? Jazz is a far better company than you insinuate, just be happy you’re not here, we’ll be happy you’re not here and all will be good.
Why would you wish the demise of a company that employs thousands of people, cause you’re a little butt hurt about not flowing, seems pretty fukn petty man!

Keep in mind this is on a thread labelled “should I go to jazz”

I would hate for someone to come here and read your brand of bs and consider applying.

I do find it interesting that you blame Jazz for the whole thing, you seem misinformed about it.
The amount of control exerted by AC is being tested with the CIRB right now, hopefully some light will be shed.
Jazz is not the same company it was when you left, the pay for new hires is almost livable and will go up again, I would put money on that.
It’s time to move on from your vendetta, besides I sincerely doubt the pilots coming to Jazz are making decisions based on a disgruntled ex employee spouting off on avcanada.

AC or Jazz it happened, pilots lost 100’s of seniority numbers and more every month. No solution in sight, I’ll move on after I see a resolution.

Contract violations that caused irreparable harm to the careers of all the pilots at Jazz (one way or another) your stance is “ hey, it’s almost a liable wage”

The less pilots apply the more likely your wages will go up so being a fan boy on here isn’t helping your cause.

[cdnavater]

Keep in mind this is on a thread labelled “should I go to jazz”

I would hate for someone to come here and read your brand of bs and consider applying.

I do find it interesting that you blame Jazz for the whole thing, you seem misinformed about it.
The amount of control exerted by AC is being tested with the CIRB right now, hopefully some light will be shed.
Jazz is not the same company it was when you left, the pay for new hires is almost livable and will go up again, I would put money on that.
It’s time to move on from your vendetta, besides I sincerely doubt the pilots coming to Jazz are making decisions based on a disgruntled ex employee spouting off on avcanada.

AC or Jazz it happened, pilots lost 100’s of seniority numbers and more every month. No solution in sight, I’ll move on after I see a resolution.

Contract violations that caused irreparable harm to the careers of all the pilots at Jazz (one way or another) your stance is “ hey, it’s almost a liable wage”

The less pilots apply the more likely your wages will go up so being a fan boy on here isn’t helping your cause.

Yes, damage has been done to all Jazz pilots and I’m just going to trust the union is doing what is needed but I reiterate, your wish above was that AC “take back” all the regional flying and Jazz dies.
AC played a much bigger role in all of this, going back long before they didn’t honour the flow, the created the entire situation which required a flow carrot in the first place. Jazz used to be a desirable company where plenty of pilots tried hard to get in and stayed for their career.
My point was your anger should be directed at the proper place, the real culprit, AC management!
Honestly, I don’t really blame Jazz that much, most things were beyond their control, I doubt Jazz management conspired with AC to create a situation where their asset was worthless and they could lose it and the leasing revenue, seems a little ridiculous, don’t you think.

[pipedream?]

I’ve heard it from several of my colleagues who have since left Jazz that once they’re on the other side they miss it. There is a great many things that make Jazz a great place to work and number 1 on that list is the individuals I’ve had the privilege to learn from and fly with. Do I still think I probably should’ve stayed a 704 captain back in 2022 before the flow agreement was violated and would I have had better career progression? Yes, Crystal ball type sh*t I guess. Would I recommend someone with 1990 hours, who wants to make it to AC, to come to Jazz? No, probably not. But I still think there are many things at Jazz, even under our contract that make it a great place to be. 4.5 weeks of vacation at year 1, proper reserve rules, commuting policy, health benefits ect that make this a good job.

[yowflyer23]

4.5 weeks of vacation at year 1, proper reserve rules, commuting policy, health benefits ect that make this a good job.

We have 4.5 weeks of vacation in our first year? The contract says we have 10 days of vacation after completing one year of service. (i.e. 0 days of vacation in year 1). Am I missing something?

[Tbayer2021]

4.5 weeks of vacation at year 1, proper reserve rules, commuting policy, health benefits ect that make this a good job.

We have 4.5 weeks of vacation in our first year? The contract says we have 10 days of vacation after completing one year of service. (i.e. 0 days of vacation in year 1). Am I missing something?

I think I know what type of math he's doing. He's taking stat days and GDO's pilots may be able to attach to vacation blocks and calling it vacation. I've seen this before at previous companies where I could stretch 10 actual vacation days to well over 30 days off from duty that were all creatively attached to vacation blocks.

[Turboprops]

I’ve heard it from several of my colleagues who have since left Jazz that once they’re on the other side they miss it. There is a great many things that make Jazz a great place to work and number 1 on that list is the individuals I’ve had the privilege to learn from and fly with. Do I still think I probably should’ve stayed a 704 captain back in 2022 before the flow agreement was violated and would I have had better career progression? Yes, Crystal ball type sh*t I guess. Would I recommend someone with 1990 hours, who wants to make it to AC, to come to Jazz? No, probably not. But I still think there are many things at Jazz, even under our contract that make it a great place to be. 4.5 weeks of vacation at year 1, proper reserve rules, commuting policy, health benefits ect that make this a good job.

I’ve never heard anyone that’s left Jazz in my 2022 class say they missed it. No one whatsoever. Jazz pilots all think they got such a “good contract”, in reality it’s just because you’ve never worked at better places.
And no at Jazz you got ZERO vacation at year 1

[Nick678]

I do find it interesting that you blame Jazz for the whole thing, you seem misinformed about it.
The amount of control exerted by AC is being tested with the CIRB right now, hopefully some light will be shed.
Jazz is not the same company it was when you left, the pay for new hires is almost livable and will go up again, I would put money on that.
It’s time to move on from your vendetta, besides I sincerely doubt the pilots coming to Jazz are making decisions based on a disgruntled ex employee spouting off on avcanada.

AC or Jazz it happened, pilots lost 100’s of seniority numbers and more every month. No solution in sight, I’ll move on after I see a resolution.

Contract violations that caused irreparable harm to the careers of all the pilots at Jazz (one way or another) your stance is “ hey, it’s almost a liable wage”

The less pilots apply the more likely your wages will go up so being a fan boy on here isn’t helping your cause.

Yes, damage has been done to all Jazz pilots and I’m just going to trust the union is doing what is needed but I reiterate, your wish above was that AC “take back” all the regional flying and Jazz dies.
AC played a much bigger role in all of this, going back long before they didn’t honour the flow, the created the entire situation which required a flow carrot in the first place. Jazz used to be a desirable company where plenty of pilots tried hard to get in and stayed for their career.
My point was your anger should be directed at the proper place, the real culprit, AC management!
Honestly, I don’t really blame Jazz that much, most things were beyond their control, I doubt Jazz management conspired with AC to create a situation where their asset was worthless and they could lose it and the leasing revenue, seems a little ridiculous, don’t you think.

I have a hard time trusting Jazz MEC to fix this…

- When there was complaining about Union members on release taking OT they removed the coworker schedule look up function
- No vote on the Sky DOH merger
- That deal included a one time payment for anyone with 12(?) YOS, when asked in the QandA why not everyone? they said the juniors got money with sky deal but that was a fraction in comparison and we were on subsidies not working
- They never explained why they waited 8 months to file the complaint with CIRB

I’m not mad at jazz management I know they probably had bupkis to do with this. I just regret going there and hope everyone avoids it. The coworkers I had at jazz were great, the planes were well maintained but that’s it. The schedule was terrible, pay was crap, and the agreement with AC broken.

The numbers speak for themselves ~1600 pilots in 2019 how many now? And now fleet reductions? No new airplanes on order….

[QKZXKV]

AC or Jazz it happened, pilots lost 100’s of seniority numbers and more every month. No solution in sight, I’ll move on after I see a resolution.

Contract violations that caused irreparable harm to the careers of all the pilots at Jazz (one way or another) your stance is “ hey, it’s almost a liable wage”

The less pilots apply the more likely your wages will go up so being a fan boy on here isn’t helping your cause.

Yes, damage has been done to all Jazz pilots and I’m just going to trust the union is doing what is needed but I reiterate, your wish above was that AC “take back” all the regional flying and Jazz dies.
AC played a much bigger role in all of this, going back long before they didn’t honour the flow, the created the entire situation which required a flow carrot in the first place. Jazz used to be a desirable company where plenty of pilots tried hard to get in and stayed for their career.
My point was your anger should be directed at the proper place, the real culprit, AC management!
Honestly, I don’t really blame Jazz that much, most things were beyond their control, I doubt Jazz management conspired with AC to create a situation where their asset was worthless and they could lose it and the leasing revenue, seems a little ridiculous, don’t you think.

I have a hard time trusting Jazz MEC to fix this…

- When there was complaining about Union members on release taking OT they removed the coworker schedule look up function
- No vote on the Sky DOH merger
- That deal included a one time payment for anyone with 12(?) YOS, when asked in the QandA why not everyone? they said the juniors got money with sky deal but that was a fraction in comparison and we were on subsidies not working
- They never explained why they waited 8 months to file the complaint with CIRB

I’m not mad at jazz management I know they probably had bupkis to do with this. I just regret going there and hope everyone avoids it. The coworkers I had at jazz were great, the planes were well maintained but that’s it. The schedule was terrible, pay was crap, and the agreement with AC broken.

The numbers speak for themselves ~1600 pilots in 2019 how many now? And now fleet reductions? No new airplanes on order….

The MEC and their buddies need to be bounced for starters... They're too much of a cozy club. Things won't change until they're all gone and some younger blood takes over.

[goingnowherefast]

Organize a recall. If the MEC is doing that poorly, recall them and let the votes decide.

[QKZXKV]

Organize a recall. If the MEC is doing that poorly, recall them and let the votes decide.

The LECs are just as guilty of leg humping the MEC chair...

Having been there for yrs, the mafia wouldn't allow for this to happen. Unfortunately they need new bodies in the union there since the pre-merger pilots are starting to be out numbered by younger pilots who aren't green circled.

[Bede]

Organize a recall. If the MEC is doing that poorly, recall them and let the votes decide.

Members can't recall an MEC chair- only the reps can.

The one big problem is that generally, there is a lack of willingness of people to step up. If you don't like your MEC chair or rep, go find a suitable replacement. Then, have them stand in the next election. The most destructive is when someone is recalled but no one is waiting in the wings.

[cdnavater]

AC or Jazz it happened, pilots lost 100’s of seniority numbers and more every month. No solution in sight, I’ll move on after I see a resolution.

Contract violations that caused irreparable harm to the careers of all the pilots at Jazz (one way or another) your stance is “ hey, it’s almost a liable wage”

The less pilots apply the more likely your wages will go up so being a fan boy on here isn’t helping your cause.

Yes, damage has been done to all Jazz pilots and I’m just going to trust the union is doing what is needed but I reiterate, your wish above was that AC “take back” all the regional flying and Jazz dies.
AC played a much bigger role in all of this, going back long before they didn’t honour the flow, the created the entire situation which required a flow carrot in the first place. Jazz used to be a desirable company where plenty of pilots tried hard to get in and stayed for their career.
My point was your anger should be directed at the proper place, the real culprit, AC management!
Honestly, I don’t really blame Jazz that much, most things were beyond their control, I doubt Jazz management conspired with AC to create a situation where their asset was worthless and they could lose it and the leasing revenue, seems a little ridiculous, don’t you think.

I have a hard time trusting Jazz MEC to fix this…

- When there was complaining about Union members on release taking OT they removed the coworker schedule look up function
- No vote on the Sky DOH merger
- That deal included a one time payment for anyone with 12(?) YOS, when asked in the QandA why not everyone? they said the juniors got money with sky deal but that was a fraction in comparison and we were on subsidies not working
- They never explained why they waited 8 months to file the complaint with CIRB

I’m not mad at jazz management I know they probably had bupkis to do with this. I just regret going there and hope everyone avoids it. The coworkers I had at jazz were great, the planes were well maintained but that’s it. The schedule was terrible, pay was crap, and the agreement with AC broken.

The numbers speak for themselves ~1600 pilots in 2019 how many now? And now fleet reductions? No new airplanes on order….

There are logical reasons for most of the issues you raised.
I mentioned it recently to another pilot about a rep who was doing OT on days that were blocked on their schedule as ALPA days, he said he doesn’t care about that because those days are just place holders for the amount of expected time they will put in based on the roster they represent. If not, how could we expect them to pick up the phone or respond to an email unless it was on one of those days. I know, everytime I contact my rep, he gets back to me pretty quick, he doesn’t wait for the days blocked on his schedule, so I’m ok with it, as long as they are putting in the time and not sloughing off, then nothing to complain about really.
The SR integration, first of all, it was the right thing to do, we were taking over their operation and the federal labour law about the right to follow the work would have applied to this situation.
Our MEC has always been pro DOH for integration and it would have been hypocritical to do anything other than that and believe me when I tell you that I struggled with this particular situation.
The SR and GGN pilots were all complicit in the degradation of our wages and working conditions, so yes, I likely would have voted with my desire to punish them had it come to that, probably good they didn’t allow that.
As for the 12+ YOS payment, in addition to what may have been said during the Q&A, the senior pilots in that category were most affected by the years of suppression due to the above mentioned competition. The agreement that was coming out with this one time payment had the biggest raises going to the bottom of the roster, again. Even our last meaningful negotiation in 2010 the senior pilots were held at 2%. 2% per year since 2010 is the only raises senior pilots have experienced in every contract since, so the one time payment really was only a drop in the bucket of how far behind we’ve fallen to inflation.
They waited 8 months due to the on going bargaining, I’m sure they were hoping to settle things without involving the CIRB, when Air Canada rejected our negotiated new agreement and replaced it with what “they were willing to pay”, that is what forced their hand. I can’t imagine the negotiations would’ve continued had the MEC filed a complaint in the middle of them. I would like to know what it was before Air Canada rejected it, I was told by a very good source it was 40% to the top and closer to 60% at the bottom. Maybe someday we will actually find out, for now it’s working its way through the process.
Yes, the numbers do speak for themselves and further proves the new wages didn’t go far enough because we are still only able to attract low time pilots, the odd 1500 hour pilot coming through but no DEC ready pilots that I've encountered. The fleet reduction is absolutely related to the fact AC doesn’t want to pay what is required to attract pilots to Jazz, I’m sure they’ve run the numbers and figure we can operate a fleet of 80 with our current staffing mix of senior pilots and high turnover at the bottom.
FYI, Jazz in some form has been around longer than AC itself, the situation were are in is because AC bought all of the regional airlines and merged them into one, then sold them on the stock market to boost their position. We are all just pawns, try to remember that when you wish ill will on your fellow pilots.
The last point I’ll make again, if you don’t blame Jazz management and your co-workers were great, why would you wish Jazz be shuddered and the company who created the situation we are in to take over all of the flying.

[QKZXKV]

Yes, damage has been done to all Jazz pilots and I’m just going to trust the union is doing what is needed but I reiterate, your wish above was that AC “take back” all the regional flying and Jazz dies.
AC played a much bigger role in all of this, going back long before they didn’t honour the flow, the created the entire situation which required a flow carrot in the first place. Jazz used to be a desirable company where plenty of pilots tried hard to get in and stayed for their career.
My point was your anger should be directed at the proper place, the real culprit, AC management!
Honestly, I don’t really blame Jazz that much, most things were beyond their control, I doubt Jazz management conspired with AC to create a situation where their asset was worthless and they could lose it and the leasing revenue, seems a little ridiculous, don’t you think.

I have a hard time trusting Jazz MEC to fix this…

- When there was complaining about Union members on release taking OT they removed the coworker schedule look up function
- No vote on the Sky DOH merger
- That deal included a one time payment for anyone with 12(?) YOS, when asked in the QandA why not everyone? they said the juniors got money with sky deal but that was a fraction in comparison and we were on subsidies not working
- They never explained why they waited 8 months to file the complaint with CIRB

I’m not mad at jazz management I know they probably had bupkis to do with this. I just regret going there and hope everyone avoids it. The coworkers I had at jazz were great, the planes were well maintained but that’s it. The schedule was terrible, pay was crap, and the agreement with AC broken.

The numbers speak for themselves ~1600 pilots in 2019 how many now? And now fleet reductions? No new airplanes on order….

There are logical reasons for most of the issues you raised.
I mentioned it recently to another pilot about a rep who was doing OT on days that were blocked on their schedule as ALPA days, he said he doesn’t care about that because those days are just place holders for the amount of expected time they will put in based on the roster they represent. If not, how could we expect them to pick up the phone or respond to an email unless it was on one of those days. I know, everytime I contact my rep, he gets back to me pretty quick, he doesn’t wait for the days blocked on his schedule, so I’m ok with it, as long as they are putting in the time and not sloughing off, then nothing to complain about really.
The SR integration, first of all, it was the right thing to do, we were taking over their operation and the federal labour law about the right to follow the work would have applied to this situation.
Our MEC has always been pro DOH for integration and it would have been hypocritical to do anything other than that and believe me when I tell you that I struggled with this particular situation.
The SR and GGN pilots were all complicit in the degradation of our wages and working conditions, so yes, I likely would have voted with my desire to punish them had it come to that, probably good they didn’t allow that.
As for the 12+ YOS payment, in addition to what may have been said during the Q&A, the senior pilots in that category were most affected by the years of suppression due to the above mentioned competition. The agreement that was coming out with this one time payment had the biggest raises going to the bottom of the roster, again. Even our last meaningful negotiation in 2010 the senior pilots were held at 2%. 2% per year since 2010 is the only raises senior pilots have experienced in every contract since, so the one time payment really was only a drop in the bucket of how far behind we’ve fallen to inflation.
They waited 8 months due to the on going bargaining, I’m sure they were hoping to settle things without involving the CIRB, when Air Canada rejected our negotiated new agreement and replaced it with what “they were willing to pay”, that is what forced their hand. I can’t imagine the negotiations would’ve continued had the MEC filed a complaint in the middle of them. I would like to know what it was before Air Canada rejected it, I was told by a very good source it was 40% to the top and closer to 60% at the bottom. Maybe someday we will actually find out, for now it’s working its way through the process.
Yes, the numbers do speak for themselves and further proves the new wages didn’t go far enough because we are still only able to attract low time pilots, the odd 1500 hour pilot coming through but no DEC ready pilots that I've encountered. The fleet reduction is absolutely related to the fact AC doesn’t want to pay what is required to attract pilots to Jazz, I’m sure they’ve run the numbers and figure we can operate a fleet of 80 with our current staffing mix of senior pilots and high turnover at the bottom.
FYI, Jazz in some form has been around longer than AC itself, the situation were are in is because AC bought all of the regional airlines and merged them into one, then sold them on the stock market to boost their position. We are all just pawns, try to remember that when you wish ill will on your fellow pilots.
The last point I’ll make again, if you don’t blame Jazz management and your co-workers were great, why would you wish Jazz be shuddered and the company who created the situation we are in to take over all of the flying.

It's encouraged at other ALPA MECs for reps to leave their schedules public to prevent what the OT pigs were hiding at JAZ.

It's time for fresh representatives that are more in line with the majority (non-green circle pilots).

[cdnavater]

I have a hard time trusting Jazz MEC to fix this…

- When there was complaining about Union members on release taking OT they removed the coworker schedule look up function
- No vote on the Sky DOH merger
- That deal included a one time payment for anyone with 12(?) YOS, when asked in the QandA why not everyone? they said the juniors got money with sky deal but that was a fraction in comparison and we were on subsidies not working
- They never explained why they waited 8 months to file the complaint with CIRB

I’m not mad at jazz management I know they probably had bupkis to do with this. I just regret going there and hope everyone avoids it. The coworkers I had at jazz were great, the planes were well maintained but that’s it. The schedule was terrible, pay was crap, and the agreement with AC broken.

The numbers speak for themselves ~1600 pilots in 2019 how many now? And now fleet reductions? No new airplanes on order….

There are logical reasons for most of the issues you raised.
I mentioned it recently to another pilot about a rep who was doing OT on days that were blocked on their schedule as ALPA days, he said he doesn’t care about that because those days are just place holders for the amount of expected time they will put in based on the roster they represent. If not, how could we expect them to pick up the phone or respond to an email unless it was on one of those days. I know, everytime I contact my rep, he gets back to me pretty quick, he doesn’t wait for the days blocked on his schedule, so I’m ok with it, as long as they are putting in the time and not sloughing off, then nothing to complain about really.
The SR integration, first of all, it was the right thing to do, we were taking over their operation and the federal labour law about the right to follow the work would have applied to this situation.
Our MEC has always been pro DOH for integration and it would have been hypocritical to do anything other than that and believe me when I tell you that I struggled with this particular situation.
The SR and GGN pilots were all complicit in the degradation of our wages and working conditions, so yes, I likely would have voted with my desire to punish them had it come to that, probably good they didn’t allow that.
As for the 12+ YOS payment, in addition to what may have been said during the Q&A, the senior pilots in that category were most affected by the years of suppression due to the above mentioned competition. The agreement that was coming out with this one time payment had the biggest raises going to the bottom of the roster, again. Even our last meaningful negotiation in 2010 the senior pilots were held at 2%. 2% per year since 2010 is the only raises senior pilots have experienced in every contract since, so the one time payment really was only a drop in the bucket of how far behind we’ve fallen to inflation.
They waited 8 months due to the on going bargaining, I’m sure they were hoping to settle things without involving the CIRB, when Air Canada rejected our negotiated new agreement and replaced it with what “they were willing to pay”, that is what forced their hand. I can’t imagine the negotiations would’ve continued had the MEC filed a complaint in the middle of them. I would like to know what it was before Air Canada rejected it, I was told by a very good source it was 40% to the top and closer to 60% at the bottom. Maybe someday we will actually find out, for now it’s working its way through the process.
Yes, the numbers do speak for themselves and further proves the new wages didn’t go far enough because we are still only able to attract low time pilots, the odd 1500 hour pilot coming through but no DEC ready pilots that I've encountered. The fleet reduction is absolutely related to the fact AC doesn’t want to pay what is required to attract pilots to Jazz, I’m sure they’ve run the numbers and figure we can operate a fleet of 80 with our current staffing mix of senior pilots and high turnover at the bottom.
FYI, Jazz in some form has been around longer than AC itself, the situation were are in is because AC bought all of the regional airlines and merged them into one, then sold them on the stock market to boost their position. We are all just pawns, try to remember that when you wish ill will on your fellow pilots.
The last point I’ll make again, if you don’t blame Jazz management and your co-workers were great, why would you wish Jazz be shuddered and the company who created the situation we are in to take over all of the flying.

It's encouraged at other ALPA MECs for reps to leave their schedules public to prevent what the OT pigs were hiding at JAZ.

It's time for fresh representatives that are more in line with the majority (non-green circle pilots).

Due respect, when you add things like, “non-green circled pilots” to your commentary, it’s going to be an uphill battle trying to make that change.
This MEC has been working to change and bridge the gap between green circled and non-green circled pilots. I believe the only real difference now is the pension, there are zero airlines in Canada offering a DB pension to new hires, those days are long over and god save the those who try to take that away from us.
What else do you perceive is the difference between green/non-green?
Btw, currently it’s the green circled pilots who are keeping us going, any non-green circled pilots are either not bidding Captain or not ready, so maybe show some respect to those who’ve been here long term, keeping us a going concern.
If the US has its way, Jazz will not be operating in US airspace with sub 1500 hour pilots up front, you’ll appreciate us then perhaps, that will be a real game changer and make no mistake, they are looking at it.

Edit, just to add, I would like to know to what extent the OT pigs are capitalizing on the ALPA release, it might make a difference on how the votes go, maybe.
P.S. do you see how my elite post became us vs them, we should be striving to be just us!

[QKZXKV]

There are logical reasons for most of the issues you raised.
I mentioned it recently to another pilot about a rep who was doing OT on days that were blocked on their schedule as ALPA days, he said he doesn’t care about that because those days are just place holders for the amount of expected time they will put in based on the roster they represent. If not, how could we expect them to pick up the phone or respond to an email unless it was on one of those days. I know, everytime I contact my rep, he gets back to me pretty quick, he doesn’t wait for the days blocked on his schedule, so I’m ok with it, as long as they are putting in the time and not sloughing off, then nothing to complain about really.
The SR integration, first of all, it was the right thing to do, we were taking over their operation and the federal labour law about the right to follow the work would have applied to this situation.
Our MEC has always been pro DOH for integration and it would have been hypocritical to do anything other than that and believe me when I tell you that I struggled with this particular situation.
The SR and GGN pilots were all complicit in the degradation of our wages and working conditions, so yes, I likely would have voted with my desire to punish them had it come to that, probably good they didn’t allow that.
As for the 12+ YOS payment, in addition to what may have been said during the Q&A, the senior pilots in that category were most affected by the years of suppression due to the above mentioned competition. The agreement that was coming out with this one time payment had the biggest raises going to the bottom of the roster, again. Even our last meaningful negotiation in 2010 the senior pilots were held at 2%. 2% per year since 2010 is the only raises senior pilots have experienced in every contract since, so the one time payment really was only a drop in the bucket of how far behind we’ve fallen to inflation.
They waited 8 months due to the on going bargaining, I’m sure they were hoping to settle things without involving the CIRB, when Air Canada rejected our negotiated new agreement and replaced it with what “they were willing to pay”, that is what forced their hand. I can’t imagine the negotiations would’ve continued had the MEC filed a complaint in the middle of them. I would like to know what it was before Air Canada rejected it, I was told by a very good source it was 40% to the top and closer to 60% at the bottom. Maybe someday we will actually find out, for now it’s working its way through the process.
Yes, the numbers do speak for themselves and further proves the new wages didn’t go far enough because we are still only able to attract low time pilots, the odd 1500 hour pilot coming through but no DEC ready pilots that I've encountered. The fleet reduction is absolutely related to the fact AC doesn’t want to pay what is required to attract pilots to Jazz, I’m sure they’ve run the numbers and figure we can operate a fleet of 80 with our current staffing mix of senior pilots and high turnover at the bottom.
FYI, Jazz in some form has been around longer than AC itself, the situation were are in is because AC bought all of the regional airlines and merged them into one, then sold them on the stock market to boost their position. We are all just pawns, try to remember that when you wish ill will on your fellow pilots.
The last point I’ll make again, if you don’t blame Jazz management and your co-workers were great, why would you wish Jazz be shuddered and the company who created the situation we are in to take over all of the flying.

It's encouraged at other ALPA MECs for reps to leave their schedules public to prevent what the OT pigs were hiding at JAZ.

It's time for fresh representatives that are more in line with the majority (non-green circle pilots).

Due respect, when you add things like, “non-green circled pilots” to your commentary, it’s going to be an uphill battle trying to make that change.
This MEC has been working to change and bridge the gap between green circled and non-green circled pilots. I believe the only real difference now is the pension, there are zero airlines in Canada offering a DB pension to new hires, those days are long over and god save the those who try to take that away from us.
What else do you perceive is the difference between green/non-green?
Btw, currently it’s the green circled pilots who are keeping us going, any non-green circled pilots are either not bidding Captain or not ready, so maybe show some respect to those who’ve been here long term, keeping us a going concern.
If the US has its way, Jazz will not be operating in US airspace with sub 1500 hour pilots up front, you’ll appreciate us then perhaps, that will be a real game changer and make no mistake, they are looking at it.

Edit, just to add, I would like to know to what extent the OT pigs are capitalizing on the ALPA release, it might make a difference on how the votes go, maybe.
P.S. do you see how my elite post became us vs them, we should be striving to be just us!

1: that US thing is mere speculation, never even close to anything concrete about that.

2: can't see about OT because they hid that

3: I know it's easy to be defensive of your friends,but you think perhaps the newer pilots (since the term GC offends) don't want to upgrade is because a bunch have one foot put the door for better ventures?

[Nick678]

Yes, damage has been done to all Jazz pilots and I’m just going to trust the union is doing what is needed but I reiterate, your wish above was that AC “take back” all the regional flying and Jazz dies.
AC played a much bigger role in all of this, going back long before they didn’t honour the flow, the created the entire situation which required a flow carrot in the first place. Jazz used to be a desirable company where plenty of pilots tried hard to get in and stayed for their career.
My point was your anger should be directed at the proper place, the real culprit, AC management!
Honestly, I don’t really blame Jazz that much, most things were beyond their control, I doubt Jazz management conspired with AC to create a situation where their asset was worthless and they could lose it and the leasing revenue, seems a little ridiculous, don’t you think.

I have a hard time trusting Jazz MEC to fix this…

- When there was complaining about Union members on release taking OT they removed the coworker schedule look up function
- No vote on the Sky DOH merger
- That deal included a one time payment for anyone with 12(?) YOS, when asked in the QandA why not everyone? they said the juniors got money with sky deal but that was a fraction in comparison and we were on subsidies not working
- They never explained why they waited 8 months to file the complaint with CIRB

I’m not mad at jazz management I know they probably had bupkis to do with this. I just regret going there and hope everyone avoids it. The coworkers I had at jazz were great, the planes were well maintained but that’s it. The schedule was terrible, pay was crap, and the agreement with AC broken.

The numbers speak for themselves ~1600 pilots in 2019 how many now? And now fleet reductions? No new airplanes on order….

There are logical reasons for most of the issues you raised.
I mentioned it recently to another pilot about a rep who was doing OT on days that were blocked on their schedule as ALPA days, he said he doesn’t care about that because those days are just place holders for the amount of expected time they will put in based on the roster they represent. If not, how could we expect them to pick up the phone or respond to an email unless it was on one of those days. I know, everytime I contact my rep, he gets back to me pretty quick, he doesn’t wait for the days blocked on his schedule, so I’m ok with it, as long as they are putting in the time and not sloughing off, then nothing to complain about really.
The SR integration, first of all, it was the right thing to do, we were taking over their operation and the federal labour law about the right to follow the work would have applied to this situation.
Our MEC has always been pro DOH for integration and it would have been hypocritical to do anything other than that and believe me when I tell you that I struggled with this particular situation.
The SR and GGN pilots were all complicit in the degradation of our wages and working conditions, so yes, I likely would have voted with my desire to punish them had it come to that, probably good they didn’t allow that.
As for the 12+ YOS payment, in addition to what may have been said during the Q&A, the senior pilots in that category were most affected by the years of suppression due to the above mentioned competition. The agreement that was coming out with this one time payment had the biggest raises going to the bottom of the roster, again. Even our last meaningful negotiation in 2010 the senior pilots were held at 2%. 2% per year since 2010 is the only raises senior pilots have experienced in every contract since, so the one time payment really was only a drop in the bucket of how far behind we’ve fallen to inflation.
They waited 8 months due to the on going bargaining, I’m sure they were hoping to settle things without involving the CIRB, when Air Canada rejected our negotiated new agreement and replaced it with what “they were willing to pay”, that is what forced their hand. I can’t imagine the negotiations would’ve continued had the MEC filed a complaint in the middle of them. I would like to know what it was before Air Canada rejected it, I was told by a very good source it was 40% to the top and closer to 60% at the bottom. Maybe someday we will actually find out, for now it’s working its way through the process.
Yes, the numbers do speak for themselves and further proves the new wages didn’t go far enough because we are still only able to attract low time pilots, the odd 1500 hour pilot coming through but no DEC ready pilots that I've encountered. The fleet reduction is absolutely related to the fact AC doesn’t want to pay what is required to attract pilots to Jazz, I’m sure they’ve run the numbers and figure we can operate a fleet of 80 with our current staffing mix of senior pilots and high turnover at the bottom.
FYI, Jazz in some form has been around longer than AC itself, the situation were are in is because AC bought all of the regional airlines and merged them into one, then sold them on the stock market to boost their position. We are all just pawns, try to remember that when you wish ill will on your fellow pilots.
The last point I’ll make again, if you don’t blame Jazz management and your co-workers were great, why would you wish Jazz be shuddered and the company who created the situation we are in to take over all of the flying.

There should always be accountability for those in power and removing the lookup function hinders this. Power corrupts

The details of the SR merger are irrelevant (it was a bullshit deal for juniors though, you GC didn’t lose anything) we didn’t get to vote.

That payment was to have a chance at getting that MOA passed. You guys are retiring and don’t care what follows behind. Jazz MEC loved to preach unity but the seniority list is probably the most divided in Canada. The whole middle part of the list is gone. The old crew and new hires.

Although minor it was great DH’ing with GC guys, I got to wave to you in J while I crawled into the back. You forgot that part.

I would never wish ill on a co-worker but every place I’ve worked has had great co-workers and well maintained aircraft. The entity that is jazz needs to die. It needs to give the planes to AC and let them be run with AC pilots on AC routes. AC can’t staff another 80 planes so the pilots would factor in.

Why won’t younger pilot go into union roles? Nobody stays…. there are much better flying jobs out there