Tentative Agreement 2

[GetAGripen]

Relevant? This was passed on to Encore pilots on Wednesday.

Sunwing Merger Update

Over the last few months, the Canadian Industrial Relations Board (CIRB) held virtual and in person meetings with all the parties to continue discussing the various issues arising from the acquisition. The MEC and our merger committee as requested by the CIRB met with all the parties (Company, WestJet MEC, and Sunwing MEC) on May 9, 10, and 14.

Regarding WestJet’s acquisition of Sunwing, the CIRB determined that a review of the bargaining unit was appropriate, and further held that ALPA will become the successor bargaining agent on behalf of the combined pilot group, without requiring a representation vote to take place.

The CIRB also determined that the WestJet Encore Pilots will receive intervener status. This will allow us as the WestJet Encore MEC to represent your interests and protect your rights relating to seniority. Over the next 6 weeks, our external lawyer will make submissions to the CIRB. Meetings with the CIRB are scheduled to reconvene in July.

During these meetings it became clear that the position of Unifor (the union representing Sunwing Pilots) is that Encore pilots who are not on property at WestJet do not hold seniority rights at WestJet. This is not surprising to hear, and we will be arguing accordingly. It is worth noting that the WestJet MEC and the Company do agree that the seniority rights of the Encore pilots are maintained as per the PTA.

We will continue to update you all as this process progresses.

[flyinhigh]

The flow needs to be guaranteed with bypass pay. If mainline "doesn't need" pilots then you automatically go to WS FO pay and continue to accrue WS pay seniority on the WS pay scale. Then when you do flow ahead of any OTS hires, you carry that pay seniority with you.

If only the law was that simple.

[C-GGGQ]

Any contact/ direction from the NC/ MEC on next steps? Or where they stand?

[pelmet]

If I were management, I would offer the option of a part-time schedule. It would be for way less money but might be taken by some and attract new talent wanting to work part-time.

[braaap Braap]

If I were management, I would offer the option of a part-time schedule. It would be for way less money but might be taken by some and attract new talent wanting to work part-time.

Porter’s offered that for years. Not a great deal nor is it very popular. Think in the history of the Dash 8 there have been 2 to take it.

[GetAGripen]

Any contact/ direction from the NC/ MEC on next steps? Or where they stand?

Survey's out, closes on Monday. NC is back to the table on Tuesday. Pilot call on Thursday. The strike mandate expires on June 2nd. Language is pretty standard, the MEC stands with the pilot group and is willing to pull the trigger if needed.

[C-GGGQ]

Any contact/ direction from the NC/ MEC on next steps? Or where they stand?

Survey's out, closes on Monday. NC is back to the table on Tuesday. Pilot call on Thursday. The strike mandate expires on June 2nd. Language is pretty standard, the MEC stands with the pilot group and is willing to pull the trigger if needed.

Excellent. Right back at it. Hopefully the survey has high engagement.

[Canadaflyer46]

They have a what? 96% strike vote? They’d be crazy not to use it before that vote expires. This company only starts their half decent offers when the clock is ticking so why waste any more time. The CEO even said this week they won’t get offered anything more…

[CaptDukeNukem]

They have a what? 96% strike vote? They’d be crazy not to use it before that vote expires. This company only starts their half decent offers when the clock is ticking so why waste any more time. The CEO even said this week they won’t get offered anything more…

Yup. Agreed. Although like you said, it’s a game of chicken, staring down a clock. I’d love to see strike action, but it never comes down to it

[digits_]

Any contact/ direction from the NC/ MEC on next steps? Or where they stand?

Survey's out, closes on Monday. NC is back to the table on Tuesday. Pilot call on Thursday. The strike mandate expires on June 2nd. Language is pretty standard, the MEC stands with the pilot group and is willing to pull the trigger if needed.

Perfect! Good luck

[sarg]

Relevant? This was passed on to Encore pilots on Wednesday.

Sunwing Merger Update

Over the last few months, the Canadian Industrial Relations Board (CIRB) held virtual and in person meetings with all the parties to continue discussing the various issues arising from the acquisition. The MEC and our merger committee as requested by the CIRB met with all the parties (Company, WestJet MEC, and Sunwing MEC) on May 9, 10, and 14.

Regarding WestJet’s acquisition of Sunwing, the CIRB determined that a review of the bargaining unit was appropriate, and further held that ALPA will become the successor bargaining agent on behalf of the combined pilot group, without requiring a representation vote to take place.

The CIRB also determined that the WestJet Encore Pilots will receive intervener status. This will allow us as the WestJet Encore MEC to represent your interests and protect your rights relating to seniority. Over the next 6 weeks, our external lawyer will make submissions to the CIRB. Meetings with the CIRB are scheduled to reconvene in July.

During these meetings it became clear that the position of Unifor (the union representing Sunwing Pilots) is that Encore pilots who are not on property at WestJet do not hold seniority rights at WestJet. This is not surprising to hear, and we will be arguing accordingly. It is worth noting that the WestJet MEC and the Company do agree that the seniority rights of the Encore pilots are maintained as per the PTA.

We will continue to update you all as this process progresses.

Intervener status, will allow you to present your arguments as to why you should maintain your seniority as per the PTA. Those rights only apply to those pilots hired before Dec 7(?) 2022, everyone hired after the PTA was cancelled approx. 40% of the current Encore group have no seniority rights, and most likely never will.

Just because you can present your position doesn't mean the arbitrator will agree with it. While the company and the WJ MEC may state current support for the PTA rights, the math doesn't support that position over the long term. Approx. 2,000 WJ pilots, 500 SW pilots and about 180 WEN pilots effected by seniority rights. The WJ MEC won't get a mandate to support seniority rights if it could adversely effect seniority positions of the group as a whole. The SW group as stated opposes seniority rights for WEN pilots, if push comes to shove and the only thing holding up the merger is seniority rights for 180 pilots where do you think management and the BOD are going to decide?

The matter is most likely to be decided by the arbitrator, leaving most everyone less than happy. What the merged list looks like is anyone's guess.
The most likely outcome is those who flowed before the PTA have their number, those who flowed between the PTA and CA2 might get to keep their number but once CA2 was voted in the merger was guaranteed. Having seniority rights effecting the merged group that only benefits a third party isn't likely to fly.

Probably not what you want to hear, and is just 1 opinion (worth exactly what you're paying for it) but it's close to the opinion of lots of WJ pilots.

Flow can be negotiated but I wouldn't expect a lot of it until WEN can start hiring and upgrading enough Captains the supply the needs of Encore. I also wouldn't expect a lot of appetite for anything that's going to penalize them for an inability to flow pilots.

[pelmet]

If I were management, I would offer the option of a part-time schedule. It would be for way less money but might be taken by some and attract new talent wanting to work part-time.

Porter’s offered that for years. Not a great deal nor is it very popular. Think in the history of the Dash 8 there have been 2 to take it.

Details would be interesting anyways, in case the Encore pilots could modify it a bit.

[Tbayer2021]

If I were management, I would offer the option of a part-time schedule. It would be for way less money but might be taken by some and attract new talent wanting to work part-time.

Porter’s offered that for years. Not a great deal nor is it very popular. Think in the history of the Dash 8 there have been 2 to take it.

Details would be interesting anyways, in case the Encore pilots could modify it a bit.

My understanding is that Air Transat offers various forms of a reduced schedule. From monthly reduced blocks to a month off and month on. Apparently it's quite popular there.

[dontcallmeshirley]

Details would be interesting anyways, in case the Encore pilots could modify it a bit.

[fixnfly]

Details would be interesting anyways, in case the Encore pilots could modify it a bit.

Jazz also had reduced time blocks. The company would offer a certain percentage of each aircraft/base/position to work a 50% block for 8 months of the year. The problem was it was awarded in order of seniority and usually it would go pretty senior. Those who held a 50% block would then bid for all the overtime available. I don't think the process has been changed and there were a few pilots notorious for abusing this perk year after year including union reps.

[Fanblade]

Yup. Agreed. Although like you said, it’s a game of chicken, staring down a clock. I’d love to see strike action, but it never comes down to it

The last time inflation took off we saw a flurry of strikes. Employees trying to catch back up and employers trying to keep the inflation based cost reduction. We are seeing this play out again across all industries.

I wouldn’t say never.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Yup. Agreed. Although like you said, it’s a game of chicken, staring down a clock. I’d love to see strike action, but it never comes down to it

The last time inflation took off we saw a flurry of strikes. Employees trying to catch back up and employers trying to keep the inflation based cost reduction. We are seeing this play out again across all industries.

I wouldn’t say never.

Off the top of your head. When’s the last pilot group that actually went on strike in Canada and what year was that?

I don’t care about other industries… they have their own problems. I’m talking aviation.

Edit: and before someone roasts me for not caring about other industries, I certainly do. Name me the last time a pilot group pulled the trigger. It’s been last minute 11th hour mediocre crap for decades

The last time inflation was anywhere higher than us was 1990.

https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metr ... n-rate-cpi

[boeingboy]

Yup. Agreed. Although like you said, it’s a game of chicken, staring down a clock. I’d love to see strike action, but it never comes down to it

The last time inflation took off we saw a flurry of strikes. Employees trying to catch back up and employers trying to keep the inflation based cost reduction. We are seeing this play out again across all industries.

I wouldn’t say never.

Off the top of your head. When’s the last pilot group that actually went on strike in Canada and what year was that?

I don’t care about other industries… they have their own problems. I’m talking aviation.

Edit: and before someone roasts me for not caring about other industries, I certainly do. Name me the last time a pilot group pulled the trigger. It’s been last minute 11th hour mediocre crap for decades

The last time inflation was anywhere higher than us was 1990.

https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metr ... n-rate-cpi

I believe it was Air Canada in '98

[Fanblade]

Air Canada 1998

AirBC, Air Ontario, Air Nova, Air Alliance 1997

Air Ontario late 80s early 90’s. couldn’t find a reference.

Eastern Provincial 1983.

Nordair 1976

“I don’t care about other industries… they have their own problems. I’m talking aviation.”

You may not care about other industries but you’re missing the point. When inflation takes off and employees fall behind, labor instability often ensues in general. Look around at what has been happening in Canada over the last few years. We haven’t seen this many strikes since the 80’s and 90’s

It does not matter if you are a dump truck driver, a Nurse, or a Pilot.

What I am saying is that although the recent past, with low inflation, may indicate a strike is unlikely? It does not imply that is a given in our current environment. Particularly so with a government that has indicated it will not intervene.

I also believe an AC strike later this year is 50/50. Same issue. So far behind inflation adjusted wages from 2003 that that catchup number is now massive. It will be a hell of a fight to get it back.

Add pilot inflation from the pilot shortage and the gap gets even larger.

I am not suggesting the Encore pilots should be afraid of strike. Far from it. I would advise against being cavalier about it. It can happen and based on the current environment more likely than the recent past.

[Chaxterium]

Air Canada 1998

AirBC, Air Ontario, Air Nova, Air Alliance 1997

Air Ontario late 80s early 90’s. couldn’t find a reference.

Eastern Provincial 1983.

Nordair 1976

Morningstar pilots went on strike in 2001 if I'm not mistaken.

[CaptDukeNukem]

Air Canada 1998

AirBC, Air Ontario, Air Nova, Air Alliance 1997

Air Ontario late 80s early 90’s. couldn’t find a reference.

Eastern Provincial 1983.

Nordair 1976

“I don’t care about other industries… they have their own problems. I’m talking aviation.”

You may not care about other industries but you’re missing the point. When inflation takes off and employees fall behind, labor instability often ensues in general. Look around at what has been happening in Canada over the last few years. We haven’t seen this many strikes since the 80’s and 90’s

It does not matter if you are a dump truck driver, a Nurse, or a Pilot.

What I am saying is that although the recent past, with low inflation, may indicate a strike is unlikely? It does not imply that is a given in our current environment. Particularly so with a government that has indicated it will not intervene.

I also believe an AC strike later this year is 50/50. Same issue. So far behind inflation adjusted wages from 2003 that that catchup number is now massive. It will be a hell of a fight to get it back.

Add pilot inflation from the pilot shortage and the gap gets even larger.

I am not suggesting the Encore pilots should be afraid of strike. Far from it. I would advise against being cavalier about it. It can happen and based on the current environment more likely than the recent past.

I agree with some of your points. I hope for the best for all pilots. I have very little faith that the government won’t intervene when it comes to flagship airline. Encore…..ya they probably won’t even get out of their chair for… as much as that sucks.

They sure did put a noose on the FA strike for air Canada in 2011. Don’t be surprised if all of sudden it happens again, albeit probably in a more “woke” way.

[braaap Braap]

Yup. Agreed. Although like you said, it’s a game of chicken, staring down a clock. I’d love to see strike action, but it never comes down to it

The last time inflation took off we saw a flurry of strikes. Employees trying to catch back up and employers trying to keep the inflation based cost reduction. We are seeing this play out again across all industries.

I wouldn’t say never.

Off the top of your head. When’s the last pilot group that actually went on strike in Canada and what year was that?

I don’t care about other industries… they have their own problems. I’m talking aviation.

Edit: and before someone roasts me for not caring about other industries, I certainly do. Name me the last time a pilot group pulled the trigger. It’s been last minute 11th hour mediocre crap for decades

The last time inflation was anywhere higher than us was 1990.

https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metr ... n-rate-cpi

Ya! Youre right!! Lets make Porter the firs…oh wait

[Fanblade]

I agree with some of your points. I hope for the best for all pilots. I have very little faith that the government won’t intervene when it comes to flagship airline. Encore…..ya they probably won’t even get out of their chair for… as much as that sucks.

They sure did put a noose on the FA strike for air Canada in 2011. Don’t be surprised if all of sudden it happens again, albeit probably in a more “woke” way.

Your dating yourself into last decade. What the Harper government was doing to all federally regulated unions in and around 2009-12 was deemed unconstitutional. It was not just airline unions. It was railways and Ports as well. It was everyone. The courts went to far as to declare the right to strike as a constitutional right to make sure it didn't happen again.

We all have the right to strike. Another example of why the recent past may not predict the future.

It takes days to pass back to work legislation. In 2011 the Harper government had the legislation passed in advance to prevent strike action from even starting.

Notice in the WJ pilot near miss last May that there was no legislation. The WJ pilots could have very easily been on strike. There was nothing to prevent it from the government

[goldeneagle]

They sure did put a noose on the FA strike for air Canada in 2011. Don’t be surprised if all of sudden it happens again, albeit probably in a more “woke” way.

Two things need to happen before that is likely. First, we need to have an election, then second, the folks with short memories have to elect a conservative government. Should those 2 thing happen in the near future, then yes, all bets are off and good luck with an attempt to strike.

The best indicator of future performance, is past performance. We dont have to look back any farther than the longshore strike to see how our current government will handle a pilot strike. OTOH, should we get a conservative government, we have to look back to the Harper years to see how it would be handled.

So tell me, which way would you rather it was handled. The Conservative way of legislating back to work, or the Liberal (woke) way of sitting back to let the collective bargaining process come to a conclusion ?

[Fanblade]

They sure did put a noose on the FA strike for air Canada in 2011. Don’t be surprised if all of sudden it happens again, albeit probably in a more “woke” way.

Two things need to happen before that is likely. First, we need to have an election, then second, the folks with short memories have to elect a conservative government. Should those 2 thing happen in the near future, then yes, all bets are off and good luck with an attempt to strike.

The best indicator of future performance, is past performance. We dont have to look back any farther than the longshore strike to see how our current government will handle a pilot strike. OTOH, should we get a conservative government, we have to look back to the Harper years to see how it would be handled.

So tell me, which way would you rather it was handled. The Conservative way of legislating back to work, or the Liberal (woke) way of sitting back to let the collective bargaining process come to a conclusion ?

Even a Conservative government can't prevent a strike. It would be unconstitutional to do so. The wild card is how fast they would intervene after a strike started.

Just because you can strike doesn't mean you can do so indefinitely. The government can refer the issue to the labor board for intervention if they believe the parties are at an irreconcilable impasse.. The port of Vancouver strike went 2 weeks before the Liberal government started making such noises. The cons would probably be faster. But they can't prevent it from starting.

Also consider that the next Conservative government is going to be dealing with a Liberal supermajority in the senate. The next conservative government wont be able to operate like Harper or Trudeau. They wont be able to just push anything they want through