PIC TIME OR MULTI

[Mrpilot30]

Hello guys, need your experience and your help.
I am in a position where i can go on a dash 705 in the same company or keep flying the pc12 fo for another 6 months to a year before going left seat on it. Currently sitting at 1000h. eventually my goal is mainline but i don’t wanna do it through regionals. Just wondering to fly the pc12 then go left seat for about a year or two built pic time and get atpl done. Or go on the dash right now and start building multi time?

Thanks guys

[CaptDukeNukem]

Hello guys, need your experience and your help.
I am in a position where i can go on a dash 705 in the same company or keep flying the pc12 fo for another 6 months to a year before going left seat on it. Currently sitting at 1000h. eventually my goal is mainline but i don’t wanna do it through regionals. Just wondering to fly the pc12 then go left seat for about a year or two built pic time and get atpl done. Or go on the dash right now and start building multi time?

Thanks guys

Get the ATPL done, then fly the dash.

[goingnowherefast]

Mainline AC historically seems to want 705 time and PIC time (and ATPL). So seems like you will need both. Do Dash FO now, then upgrade to PC-12 or really any captain job after a bit.

[C-GGGQ]

I guess it depends where you are at. I went direct entry captain on a pc12 at 1200 hrs. So might not even be 6 months till you could find a captain position for where you are or even another pc12/ King Air Company. I would get the PIC first. The dash will be there but I know at your time I needed to do the upgrade to really grow as a pilot. The dash fo job won’t be AS different an experience as Captain in my opinion. That ATPL opens up way more doors too. I get cold called now for jobs that 12 months ago wouldn’t even take a resume.

[Mrpilot30]

Mainline AC historically seems to want 705 time and PIC time (and ATPL). So seems like you will need both. Do Dash FO now, then upgrade to PC-12 or really any captain job after a bit.

Yea 705 is really good to have but i’ll be at a bond and it will take long before i can start getting that pic. i feel like PIC time with ATPL is more valuable and can take me direct mainline.

[Mrpilot30]

I guess it depends where you are at. I went direct entry captain on a pc12 at 1200 hrs. So might not even be 6 months till you could find a captain position for where you are or even another pc12/ King Air Company. I would get the PIC first. The dash will be there but I know at your time I needed to do the upgrade to really grow as a pilot. The dash fo job won’t be AS different an experience as Captain in my opinion. That ATPL opens up way more doors too. I get cold called now for jobs that 12 months ago wouldn’t even take a resume.

Yea i agree, pic time is more valuable in the future and will give me a lot more options plus going left seat will improve and grow as a pilot. Getting a right seat job is a lot easier than getting left seat job.

[jbreeze]

This sounds a lot like a North Star problem.

[flying4dollars]

The industry is so hungry for pilots right now that it doesn't take much to secure a 705 job with minimal experience. That being said, if your goal is to become a career FO, then sure go Dash/Boeing/Airbus FO. If you want to become a captain, get that PIC time and experience. It will make you more competitive should you seek further employment elsewhere, or you experience a layoff, or if you want to upgrade on any of the 705 machines. Can you still upgrade with only 705 FO time and even minimal PIC (enough to license you as an ATP)? Yes, but it is very challenging. Many with PIC time that upgrade still struggle and fail. Rome wasn't built in a day and neither should your resume be. Good luck!

[bcflyer]

PIC time is king. Just ask any Jazz F/O that can’t upgrade because they don’t have enough to get their ATPL. On top of that it will make any future upgrade easier.

[RAIM]

PIC time. More challenging to get and helps pad that all important column in your logbook

[MX-5]

PIC time is king. Just ask any Jazz F/O that can’t upgrade because they don’t have enough to get their ATPL. On top of that it will make any future upgrade easier.

Newbie question: does a 705 F/O ever log PIC time? What about when he/she is the PF?

[C-GGGQ]

PIC time is king. Just ask any Jazz F/O that can’t upgrade because they don’t have enough to get their ATPL. On top of that it will make any future upgrade easier.

Newbie question: does a 705 F/O ever log PIC time? What about when he/she is the PF?

Short answer is no. The exception is PIC/ US (under supervision)

[MX-5]

PIC time is king. Just ask any Jazz F/O that can’t upgrade because they don’t have enough to get their ATPL. On top of that it will make any future upgrade easier.

Newbie question: does a 705 F/O ever log PIC time? What about when he/she is the PF?

Short answer is no. The exception is PIC/ US (under supervision)

So how does a young F/0 who joins a regional with less than 1500hrs ever get anywhere?

[Pratt X 3]

Newbie question: does a 705 F/O ever log PIC time? What about when he/she is the PF?

Short answer is no. The exception is PIC/ US (under supervision)

So how does a young F/0 who joins a regional with less than 1500hrs ever get anywhere?

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the multi-million dollar question in Canadian aviation. Get the PIC requirements for the ATPL as soon as you can otherwise you could end up stalling out your career progression. And this isn't the US of A where anyone with a pulse and a pilot's license who touches the controls can log PIC with their weird interpretation of what being In Command is.

[MX-5]

Short answer is no. The exception is PIC/ US (under supervision)

So how does a young F/0 who joins a regional with less than 1500hrs ever get anywhere?

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the multi-million dollar question in Canadian aviation. Get the PIC requirements for the ATPL as soon as you can otherwise you could end up stalling out your career progression. And this isn't the US of A where anyone with a pulse and a pilot's license who touches the controls can log PIC with their weird interpretation of what being In Command is.

But I have a friend who ended up as a very senior Captain on the 777 and he joined right out of Seneca college. Began as an oiler on the 747 and basically worked his way up over 35 years. And BTW it took him 17 years to upgrade. Maybe a different set of rules now ??

[C-GGGQ]

So how does a young F/0 who joins a regional with less than 1500hrs ever get anywhere?

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the multi-million dollar question in Canadian aviation. Get the PIC requirements for the ATPL as soon as you can otherwise you could end up stalling out your career progression. And this isn't the US of A where anyone with a pulse and a pilot's license who touches the controls can log PIC with their weird interpretation of what being In Command is.

But I have a friend who ended up as a very senior Captain on the 777 and he joined right out of Seneca college. Began as an oiler on the 747 and basically worked his way up over 35 years. And BTW it took him 17 years to upgrade. Maybe a different set of rules now ??

Quite possibly. Now you would end up renting a 152 for 250 pic to get your atpl since you’ll never log pic at a 795

[Pratt X 3]

So how does a young F/0 who joins a regional with less than 1500hrs ever get anywhere?

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the multi-million dollar question in Canadian aviation. Get the PIC requirements for the ATPL as soon as you can otherwise you could end up stalling out your career progression. And this isn't the US of A where anyone with a pulse and a pilot's license who touches the controls can log PIC with their weird interpretation of what being In Command is.

But I have a friend who ended up as a very senior Captain on the 777 and he joined right out of Seneca college. Began as an oiler on the 747 and basically worked his way up over 35 years. And BTW it took him 17 years to upgrade. Maybe a different set of rules now ??

Whoa! Seneca College? Well, that's the key right there! He probably walked straight from grad into the Air Canada Chief Pilot's office with his Seneca jacket on and got the job offer along with the CP's daughter's phone number. That was Canadian Aviation in the 1980's!
Seriously, things were different back then. He was very lucky not to have had to go north until he had 5000 hours to get a shot at Air Ontario and then maybe AC. The 17 years to the left seat really portraits how much it has changed.

[goldeneagle]

But I have a friend who ended up as a very senior Captain on the 777 and he joined right out of Seneca college. Began as an oiler on the 747 and basically worked his way up over 35 years. And BTW it took him 17 years to upgrade. Maybe a different set of rules now ??

Back in the 80's I was CP at a 703, had a guy show up wanted to fly the 185 for the summer. He went to AC strait out of one of the colleges, if memory serves it was Selkirk, may have been one of the others, went into the right seat of a diesel 9. Had thousands of hours on the 9, but was unable to upgrade for lack of the ATPL. H had a leave of absence from AC in order to get his PIC time so he could get the ATPL. He had 350 PIC at the time, but you needed 750 in those days, half of the 1500 had to be PIC, and right seat time only counted half, so, with 750 PIC in the book you needed 1500 right seat to go with it. If memory serves correctly, he had something like 4000 right seat in the nine, so hours were not the issue, just PIC.

We told him we would make sure he got enough PIC hours over the season, as long as he committed to staying the season, and not disappearing the day after he had enough PIC time in the book. Everything worked out, he left in the fall with PIC time in the book, we had a good driver all summer. It probably helped a bunch that his home town was where we were located, so, he was happy to be home for a summer.