If I am willing to go anywhere in Canada, is there ANY job for a 180 hour pilot?

[Ruger Princess]

Also I saw on PCC that it says "Intermediate Airline Transport Rating". That's hilarious. So then is TC wrong or PCC? Like what the hell is happening in aviation?!!! It's Individual Aircraft Type Rating

I get the IATRA is mostly used for 2 crew and that it is after your MIFR and before your As but that's just ridiculous. Intermediate. Like lazy.

Anyway, I digress too much.

A King Air 350 is single pilot and requires a type certificate and obviously the IATRA. but as a private pilot who has shawds of money, I can (and have seen) people own and fly them (well 200s anyway). God I used to fuel 2 Gulfstreams that came up to hunt. A husband and wife. each! like their private jets. Sheesh. Dreams and goals!

Prove me wrong! I like that the best!

(2) Individual Type Ratings

An individual aircraft type rating is issued for aircraft not included in a blanket type rating. It is indicated by the appropriate aircraft type designator from Appendix A found at the end of this Subpart, endorsed on a permit or licence as follows:
(amended 2005/12/01)

(a) Aeroplanes
(i) each aeroplane with a minimum flight crew requirement of at least two pilots;
(ii) each aeroplane with a minimum flight crew requirement of at least two pilots utilizing a cruise relief pilot;
(iii) each high performance aeroplane type to be endorsed on a pilot licence - aeroplane category;
(iv) each aeroplane type to be endorsed on a flight engineer licence;
(v) each aeroplane type to be endorsed on a second officer rating; and
(vi) each aeroplane type to be endorsed on a licence for which no blanket type rating is issued.
(amended 2005/06/01)

[Ruger Princess]

Ask TC? Ok.

https://publications.gc.ca/collections/ ... 19-eng.pdf

TC's authorized person manual. See page 79-82 for the requirements to sign off multicrew typeratings and high performance type ratings. The results may surprise you...

Lol. Well I did speak with a current TC examiner. And I feel pretty confident in my answer.

So I will see your IATRA for just 2 crew and not for single pilot HP (even PPLs) and I raise you with 100% HP single pilot even for PPLs.

[propfeather]

Ask TC? Ok.

https://publications.gc.ca/collections/ ... 19-eng.pdf

TC's authorized person manual. See page 79-82 for the requirements to sign off multicrew typeratings and high performance type ratings. The results may surprise you...

Lol. Well I did speak with a current TC examiner. And I feel pretty confident in my answer.

So I will see your IATRA for just 2 crew and not for single pilot HP (even PPLs) and I raise you with 100% HP single pilot even for PPLs.

I flew a King Air 200 with a CPL, no IATRA. FO didn't have an IATRA either.

[propfeather]

Also I saw on PCC that it says "Intermediate Airline Transport Rating". That's hilarious. So then is TC wrong or PCC? Like what the hell is happening in aviation?!!! It's Individual Aircraft Type Rating

I get the IATRA is mostly used for 2 crew and that it is after your MIFR and before your As but that's just ridiculous. Intermediate. Like lazy.

Anyway, I digress too much.

A King Air 350 is single pilot and requires a type certificate and obviously the IATRA. but as a private pilot who has shawds of money, I can (and have seen) people own and fly them (well 200s anyway). God I used to fuel 2 Gulfstreams that came up to hunt. A husband and wife. each! like their private jets. Sheesh. Dreams and goals!

Prove me wrong! I like that the best!

(2) Individual Type Ratings

An individual aircraft type rating is issued for aircraft not included in a blanket type rating. It is indicated by the appropriate aircraft type designator from Appendix A found at the end of this Subpart, endorsed on a permit or licence as follows:
(amended 2005/12/01)

(a) Aeroplanes
(i) each aeroplane with a minimum flight crew requirement of at least two pilots;
(ii) each aeroplane with a minimum flight crew requirement of at least two pilots utilizing a cruise relief pilot;
(iii) each high performance aeroplane type to be endorsed on a pilot licence - aeroplane category;
(iv) each aeroplane type to be endorsed on a flight engineer licence;
(v) each aeroplane type to be endorsed on a second officer rating; and
(vi) each aeroplane type to be endorsed on a licence for which no blanket type rating is issued.
(amended 2005/06/01)

I think you're confusing the IATRA with a Type Rating. You just quoted the requirements for a type rating.
The IATRA allows a CPL holder to act as a crew member in an aircraft which REQUIRES two crew.

[digits_]

A King Air 350 is single pilot and requires a type certificate and obviously the IATRA.

A type certificate is an airworthiness requirement and has nothing to do with crew licensing. Probably best to leave that out of this discussion to avoid going further off topic.

You need an individual type rating to fly a King Air 350. You don't need an IATRA.

An Individual Airplane Type Rating is commonly referred to as 'a type rating'. It usually involves ground school, a written test, flight training and a flight test all focused on a single airplane type. You'll likely do multiple type rating courses in a commercial aviation career.

IATRA is a written test covering some general theoretical concepts. You'll likely only write the IATRA once or zero times during a commercial aviation career.

(2) Individual Type Ratings

An individual aircraft type rating is issued for aircraft not included in a blanket type rating. It is indicated by the appropriate aircraft type designator from Appendix A found at the end of this Subpart, endorsed on a permit or licence as follows:
(amended 2005/12/01)

(a) Aeroplanes
(i) each aeroplane with a minimum flight crew requirement of at least two pilots;
(ii) each aeroplane with a minimum flight crew requirement of at least two pilots utilizing a cruise relief pilot;
(iii) each high performance aeroplane type to be endorsed on a pilot licence - aeroplane category;
(iv) each aeroplane type to be endorsed on a flight engineer licence;
(v) each aeroplane type to be endorsed on a second officer rating; and
(vi) each aeroplane type to be endorsed on a licence for which no blanket type rating is issued.
(amended 2005/06/01)

This covers type ratings. Nothing in here refers to the IATRA.

[RayJr]

OP, I'm sure you find this very useful

[DanWEC]

Man, I don't think anyone told me I was out to lunch back when I was teaching all this.... my golf swing maybe, but I'm working on that.

The IATRA exam stands for Intermediate AIRLINE Transport Rating Assessment.

It's a bridge to allow a non-ATPL pilot to act as an FO in a 2 crew aircraft. That's it.

The questions are oriented towards large aircraft, IFR, jetstreams, duty, 705 ops, etc.

You do not need to write it in order to get endorsed/typed on a High Perf, single pilot aircraft unless a type-specific exception exists, of which I'm unaware but it's possible.

You DO need to write it if operating such an aircraft in a 2 crew environment, such as a Citation, but this is because it's being done 2 crew. IATRA=Multi Crew.

You can go fly an L39 with a PPL and a type endorsement, no IATRA exam required. I know this well for a fact.

It's possible some individual TC inspectors are applying different criteria, it wouldn't be the first time, but at the end of the day they're bound to the CARS, Bulletins, or Gazette as written, no more no less.

Cheers.

[digits_]

You do not need to write it in order to get endorsed/typed on a High Perf, single pilot aircraft unless a type-specific exception exists, of which I'm unaware but it's possible.

You DO need to write it if operating such an aircraft in a 2 crew environment, such as a Citation, but this is because it's being done 2 crew. IATRA=Multi Crew.

I don't think that's correct though. If the airplane type only has a single crew member requirement by TC, then even if you operate it multi crew, you don't need an IATRA.

It's only when an aircraft type is listed as needing multiple crew members, then you'll need an IATRA as an FO.

Basically, if the PIC needs to hold an ATPL, the FO needs an IATRA. (Q400, 737)
If the PIC doesn't need an ATPL, the FO doesn't need an IATRA. (King Air, PC12, Caravan)

[DanWEC]

Ok, I muddied the waters a bit with that little aside. I don't believe you'll that defined in the CARS, but mostly (though not always) included for OC and insurance approval for operators with some single pilot jets operated 2 crew. Not BE10s or the like.

Now what the hell was this thread about? Water buffaloes or something?

[Heavy Rayn]

Hahaha this went off the rails. I flew a BE10 in a two crew op as FO and a few months later as Capt with no IATRA. I then went direct to the left seat of a MU2, still with no IATRA. I did all of that with just a CPL. A few months after getting my MU2 sticker I wrote the SARON and SAMRA and then applied for and received my ATPL. Never needed to write the IATRA, never have, and obviously never will. So sorry bud, you’re incorrect Ruger.

Moral of the story for OP: writing your IATRA is a good idea but don’t avoid applying to a job because you don’t have it done yet (aka the pc12 and king air jobs).

[DanWEC]

You flew the MU2, a single pilot, high perf A/C, without an IATRA? Inconceivable!
If I recall, you're from my hometown in SWO I think? Shoot me a PM and let me know how you've been doing, crazy how fast things are moving now.

*Determined to keep drifting*
Cheers.

[Heavy Rayn]

Ha! Shocking right? That’s me! I’ll send you a message.

[newlygrounded]

buddy comes in asking for low time jobs and everyone here is playing the give me a pat on the back because I can read the CARS game

[Tbayer2021]

buddy comes in asking for low time jobs and everyone here is playing the give me a pat on the back because I can read the CARS game

Avcanada is the aviation equivalent of r/wallstreetbets

[newlygrounded]

buddy comes in asking for low time jobs and everyone here is playing the give me a pat on the back because I can read the CARS game

Avcanada is the aviation equivalent of r/wallstreetbets

Except with worse financial advise and less simpsons quotes

[itsgrosswhatinet]

Willing to go anywhere in Canada is the default unfortunately. You can't be picky without experience.

[khedrei]

I see the tai Kwon doe black belt extrorinaire highest security clearance in the land big shot who seems to know everything about everything hasn't come back to comment....

I thought she was happy to admit she was wrong. Maybe the last raise was too much.

Quietly dissappear... no one will notice the foot in mouth.

[TeePeeCreeper]

I see the tai Kwon doe black belt extrorinaire highest security clearance in the land big shot who seems to know everything about everything hasn't come back to comment....

I thought she was happy to admit she was wrong. Maybe the last raise was too much.

Quietly dissappear... no one will notice the foot in mouth.

Unless you’re willing to fill us in on the accusation… perhaps you should point that clean (you did shower recently right?) foot of yours inwards?

TPC

[Anticyclone]

As a Frozen ATPL, CPL + MIFR student finishing an integrated course sometime later this year with a little over 180 hours, I am wondering how on earth do people that finish flight school with less than 200 hours, which is the minimum requirement for a single pilot high performance airplane type rating, get a job. I am willing to do any job anywhere in the country and even start on the ramp, but still.. Theoretically speaking, it would be illegal to fly a King Air, PC12, Beech 1900.
I have looked at all the job boards for the non-high performance aircraft, like the Piper Navajo. There are so little of them, and most start at 500 hours. Without being frustrated, I just don't understand how people go from the initial CPL to the minimum hours to get any job anywhere in the country.
For now, instructing seems at the only option. I have contacted 4 schools in the Montreal area, but none have answered. I have also visited 2 schools in person, and none showed interest, they said you can sign up to the waitlist and that's it. And still, even if you finish the instructor rating with about 210 hours, where is the guarantee for an instructing job?
Another possibility would be paying a few thousand dollars for block time, but without guarantee for any job.
I knew about this for a very long time and the closer I am to finishing my licence, the more desperate the situation seems. I have spoken to many airline pilots. Most say that their first job was somewhere remote in 703 or Medevac operation which for me seems unattainable.
All the schools in my area release their students with the same number of hours, 180 to 190. Very few get to 200.
I would appreciate any tips. Maybe I just don't understand something, but I don't know anyone from my school who got a job after graduating. They either went into another field and abandoned flying or went the instructor route which took them around a year after graduating to start working as an instructor.

Try this fire patrol thing, in QC it's called SOPFEU.
We've all gone through this mate, you'll get there.

Good luck.

[khedrei]

I see the tai Kwon doe black belt extrorinaire highest security clearance in the land big shot who seems to know everything about everything hasn't come back to comment....

I thought she was happy to admit she was wrong. Maybe the last raise was too much.

Quietly dissappear... no one will notice the foot in mouth.

Unless you’re willing to fill us in on the accusation… perhaps you should point that clean (you did shower recently right?) foot of yours inwards?

TPC

Come again?

I just find it funny that everything the guys posted showed her to be wrong. She said she would admit that she was. She never did.

My feet aren't too bad as long as I wear socks...

[Me262]

I see the tai Kwon doe black belt extrorinaire highest security clearance in the land big shot who seems to know everything about everything hasn't come back to comment....

I thought she was happy to admit she was wrong. Maybe the last raise was too much.

Quietly dissappear... no one will notice the foot in mouth.

Unless you’re willing to fill us in on the accusation… perhaps you should point that clean (you did shower recently right?) foot of yours inwards?

TPC

Come again?

I just find it funny that everything the guys posted showed her to be wrong. She said she would admit that she was. She never did.

My feet aren't too bad as long as I wear socks...

She had nothing to do with aviation, only her husband was an ex military and probably pilot/ACSO and so she was the know it all. Typical. I'm sorry for her partner. She must be lovely to deal with but I don't blame him for wanting to not lose half his pension.

[Dry Guy]

After reading the thread OP has likely decided on a new career. Ruger has to be trolling right? What was all that about jiu jitsu classes?

[RoAF-Mig21]

I've said this to many young aspiring pilots:

"MAKE FRIENDS IN AVIATION"

Having connections is easier to have someone put in a good word for you. I struggled for two years back in 2008 - 2010 to get a ramp job. I was living on the West Coast and there was NOTHING. Eventually a good friend of mine called me and asked if I was interested in an ramp job 1500 miles away. I moved to the frigid Prairies and worked my @$$ off for a year to get into the right seat of a King Air. The rest is history.

Most of us pilots had a hard time getting that first job.

Ah, and drop the "Frozen ATPL" crap. You're not in Europe applying for a B737 F/O job at Ryanair. You're in Canada and that type of crap comes off as "condescending". This is "blue collar type of sh*t, until you're working for an airline. Treat it as such, be humble and work hard. I did it, thousands did it. Some were lucky to have gone to the airlines straight out of college. You don't seem to be one of them, so your chances are RAMP or INSTRUCTING.

If you go the instructing way, get that done first. You'll get a job for sure, unless your character is not the right fit. Keep at it. You'll make it.