Canadian Survey Plane Accident Albany, NY

[Capt. Underpants]

https://asn.flightsafety.org/wikibase/389777

https://kasiaviation.com/air/

[oldncold]

Condolences to the family. Ntsb will figure it out. 2 things 1/ possible jet fuel in an avgas aircraft it has happened before 2/ vmca on one engine . The pilot was experienced in ifr .

[FishermanIvan]

Condolences to the family. Ntsb will figure it out. 2 things 1/ possible jet fuel in an avgas aircraft it has happened before 2/ vmca on one engine . The pilot was experienced in ifr .

Disregard. I definitely knew her

[Old fella]

There is video floating about taken by a security camera, right bank descending rapidly til impact. So very sad indeed to read about this tragic accident, a very accomplished, outstanding young lady undoubtedly.

[propfeather]

She was one of the most impressive humans I've had the pleasure of spending time with, what a horrible loss.

[FishermanIvan]

She was one of the most impressive humans I've had the pleasure of spending time with, what a horrible loss.

Same. I’m so glad I got to be a part of her life, and her part of mine. I’ll miss her every day.

[Capt. Underpants]

She was one of the most impressive humans I've had the pleasure of spending time with, what a horrible loss.

Same. I’m so glad I got to be a part of her life, and her part of mine. I’ll miss her every day.

My condolences to both of you on the loss of your friend and colleague.

[Capt. Underpants]

Found this nice article on her story. A life well lived.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/travel/news/c ... e901&ei=46

[Old fella]

Found this nice article on her story. A life well lived.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/travel/news/c ... e901&ei=46

Again, heartbreaking. A young life snuffed out, certainly brings tears to the eyes of those who had the privilege of knowing and in the company of such an accomplished lady. Sometimes I would like to say f&ck aviation for taking a young life…..

[FishermanIvan]

Found this nice article on her story. A life well lived.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/travel/news/c ... e901&ei=46

If there’s one nice thing about all this, it’s the stories that are coming out about Nat. This article is very nice indeed, and it’s amazing because it doesn’t even touch on the wealth that her life was.

I don’t mince words when I say we lost a truly incredible human being.

[karmutzen]

Tragic. Crashing a lightly loaded twin on takeoff, after getting to at least 800'. Lots of runway in Albany, long enough to where you could reject or safely climb out on one engine if necessary.

Don't know her background or experience but an engine cut at a critical time is standard multi/type training and she would have been competency checked for that on that type before being turned loose. Could she have lost both engines?

Somebody mentioned fuel, schematic attached.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... _09-86.pdf

[pelmet]

Tragic. Crashing a lightly loaded twin on takeoff, after getting to at least 800'. Lots of runway in Albany, long enough to where you could reject or safely climb out on one engine if necessary.

Don't know her background or experience but an engine cut at a critical time is standard multi/type training and she would have been competency checked for that on that type before being turned loose. Could she have lost both engines?

Somebody mentioned fuel, schematic attached.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... _09-86.pdf

How can you be sure that it was lightly loaded. Best to wait to comment about that in case there was other stuff being carried. The runway is 8500' long but we don't know if an intersection takeoff was done(although full length is better for aircraft with performance issues). Fuel issues is only speculation with nothing to back up at this point. Best to wait for an interim report in the US. Little is known. I think the 800' may be asl not agl.

[karmutzen]

C'mon, let's talk about it. If we all waited 2 years nobody would post anything on this forum, except handwringing condolences.

Look at the ADSB track. Full length of runway was used, normal acceleration and initial climb.

What are the "numbers" on a Pa31 and how do they compare to ADSB data?
If you are over 90 knots you should be good. NTSB briefing referred to "loss of control". The ADSB airspeed/altitude looks little strange after takeoff, with up down variances in both altitude and airspeed.

An eyewitness reported both engines operating at high power from their sound. Yet she advised tower of "engine problem", and they held the next aircraft from taking off.

What to speculate now?

https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=c0 ... rackLabels

[rookiepilot]

Far from the first time, if fuel…..

https://canadianaviationnews.ca/tsb-inv ... 20gasoline)%20on%20October%2014%2C

[pelmet]

Far from the first time, if fuel…..

https://canadianaviationnews.ca/tsb-inv ... 20gasoline)%20on%20October%2014%2C

GA piston pilots need to look at their fuel slip for type of fuel prior to aircraft operation. In addition, I verbally say the fuel type(100LL) out loud while looking at the source and verify the proper pump. Takes two seconds. Just do it everywhere, even when it is obvious and now you are in the habit and do it instinctively. The one day fifteen years from now, an issue is avoided.

[TeePeeCreeper]

C'mon, let's talk about it. If we all waited 2 years nobody would post anything on this forum

I’m kinda with Pelmet on this one.

This won’t take two years. I’m sure a preliminary report will be released fairly shortly. The NTSB are rather speedy when releasing their completed reports in comparison to our TSB.

TPC

[Old fella]

https://www.democratandchronicle.com/st ... 140935007/

[pelmet]

https://www.democratandchronicle.com/st ... 140935007/

Erratic flight could be a plausible outcome of losing an engine on the departure, something that has been claimed to have happened.

[cdnavater]

https://www.democratandchronicle.com/st ... 140935007/

Erratic flight could be a plausible outcome of losing an engine on the departure, something that has been claimed to have happened.

After reading that, I’m just at a loss for a plausible anything, could VMC roll cause a loop?
Barrel roll, yes but a loop! That would have been one scary ride no doubt, reporting engine trouble and then to have the rest happen.
No disrespect intended but this would have to be one of the worst mishandling of an engine failure examples I’ve ever heard of, I will obviously wait for the report but holy smokes! I sure hope there is something else at play here.

[Old fella]

https://www.democratandchronicle.com/st ... 140935007/

Erratic flight could be a plausible outcome of losing an engine on the departure, something that has been claimed to have happened.

Yes, quite correct and certainly plausible. The security camera brief video shows the ac descending quite rapidly( little forward motion )in a right bank attitude that looked to be increasing. The landing gear was up from what I could see and you can hear the engine(s) like power was evident. Again, very sad/tragic outcome.

[pelmet]

https://www.democratandchronicle.com/st ... 140935007/

Erratic flight could be a plausible outcome of losing an engine on the departure, something that has been claimed to have happened.

After reading that, I’m just at a loss for a plausible anything, could VMC roll cause a loop?
Barrel roll, yes but a loop! That would have been one scary ride no doubt, reporting engine trouble and then to have the rest happen.
No disrespect intended but this would have to be one of the worst mishandling of an engine failure examples I’ve ever heard of, I will obviously wait for the report but holy smokes! I sure hope there is something else at play here.

The investigator with the NTSB may have just been quoting witness observations which can be notoriously unreliable and exaggerated. But I can’t be sure where she got the information from.

In addition, the media are frequently unreliable in giving an accurate assessment to the public based on the information they have been given.

Significantly erratic flight would be a good term to use and a partial roll is plausible if there was an engine failure. I’m addition, there is a video of part of the flight that was out of control.

[modi13]

The NTSB are rather speedy when releasing their completed reports in comparison to our TSB.

This is a bit of a tangent, but I don't think this narrative that the TSB is slow is fair to the investigators. Looking at the most recent reports that they've released, they've come out in 19 months, 11 months, 21 months, 10 months, 21 months, 14 months, 5 months, 7 months, 14 months, 3 months, 7 months, 8 months, 7 months, 34 months, 5 months, and 16 months. So that's only one report that took more than two years to release, and nine that were released in less than a year. People love to cherry-pick the reports that take a long time to be published, but they ignore the vast majority that are released quickly. Usually the ones that take forever are because the TSB is doing a comprehensive analysis of something that can be improved upon, like when they did a bunch of testing on floor loading after the West Wind ATR crash; everyone was moaning about how slow the process was and how lazy those civil servants must be, but when it finally came out everyone seemed to be quite impressed by the efforts they went to in order to provide recommendations for improving safety.

[jpilot77]

The NTSB are rather speedy when releasing their completed reports in comparison to our TSB.

This is a bit of a tangent, but I don't think this narrative that the TSB is slow is fair to the investigators. Looking at the most recent reports that they've released, they've come out in 19 months, 11 months, 21 months, 10 months, 21 months, 14 months, 5 months, 7 months, 14 months, 3 months, 7 months, 8 months, 7 months, 34 months, 5 months, and 16 months. So that's only one report that took more than two years to release, and nine that were released in less than a year. People love to cherry-pick the reports that take a long time to be published, but they ignore the vast majority that are released quickly. Usually the ones that take forever are because the TSB is doing a comprehensive analysis of something that can be improved upon, like when they did a bunch of testing on floor loading after the West Wind ATR crash; everyone was moaning about how slow the process was and how lazy those civil servants must be, but when it finally came out everyone seemed to be quite impressed by the efforts they went to in order to provide recommendations for improving safety.

No they aren’t slow for full reports. The NTSB on the other hand does releases preliminary reports after about a couple weeks which our TSB doesn’t.

[Old fella]

Erratic flight could be a plausible outcome of losing an engine on the departure, something that has been claimed to have happened.

After reading that, I’m just at a loss for a plausible anything, could VMC roll cause a loop?
Barrel roll, yes but a loop! That would have been one scary ride no doubt, reporting engine trouble and then to have the rest happen.
No disrespect intended but this would have to be one of the worst mishandling of an engine failure examples I’ve ever heard of, I will obviously wait for the report but holy smokes! I sure hope there is something else at play here.

The investigator with the NTSB may have just been quoting witness observations which can be notoriously unreliable and exaggerated. But I can’t be sure where she got the information from.

In addition, the media are frequently unreliable in giving an accurate assessment to the public based on the information they have been given.

Significantly erratic flight would be a good term to use and a partial roll is plausible if there was an engine failure. I’m addition, there is a video of part of the flight that was out of control.

Again , your points have merit. What stood out for me in the link is the comment from NTSB about ATC who cancelled the T/O clearance of an aircraft ready to depart from same runway because of the observed situation of the the PA-31 that just departed. Certainly startling hearing about loops/rolling if that is indeed the observed situation. Could be a flight control surface issue as well.

[PostmasterGeneral]

Has anyone got a link to the video footage?