DELTA CONTRACT 2024 = AC contract at a minimum!

[CaptDukeNukem]

AC will pay because we already have signed up 2900 pilots on our list who will say NO to a contract if it’s a penny less than Delta contract. We are ready to strike for a year if we have to. AC doesnt know whats coming their way pissing off pilots like that. We will strike for a year!!!

Yes, might be more than a year if youre asking for 233% increases. Hopefully ALPA has a decent sized war chest, which I’m sure they do. Good luck! We’re all cheering for you.

[Rooster69]

FWIW,

Was speaking with a Delta crew on a layover. The FO, on their 330, made $400 000 last year. He said his taxes were around 25%. I just couldn’t ask the skipper what he made.

And you think AC will pay anywhere near this?

I didn’t say that, I was just letting people know how far behind Air Canada’s pilot wages have fallen behind by posting what a Delta 330 F/O made last year.

[Fanblade]

FWIW,

Was speaking with a Delta crew on a layover. The FO, on their 330, made $400 000 last year. He said his taxes were around 25%. I just couldn’t ask the skipper what he made.

And you think AC will pay anywhere near this?

I think AC will pay pre bankruptcy wages if they have to. But only if forced.

There must be a fair amount of OT in that 400K number. We know what the hourly wage is.

[Canadaflyer46]

FWIW,

Was speaking with a Delta crew on a layover. The FO, on their 330, made $400 000 last year. He said his taxes were around 25%. I just couldn’t ask the skipper what he made.

And you think AC will pay anywhere near this?

I think AC will pay pre bankruptcy wages if they have to. But only if forced.

There must be a fair amount of OT in that 400K number. We know what the hourly wage is.

Not sure about Delta but United top scale FO on the 330 is $340 an hour. Would likely be 400k without overtime considering they’d get a 17% 401k and whatever on top, plus profit share.

[altiplano]

FWIW,

Was speaking with a Delta crew on a layover. The FO, on their 330, made $400 000 last year. He said his taxes were around 25%. I just couldn’t ask the skipper what he made.

And you think AC will pay anywhere near this?

I think AC will pay pre bankruptcy wages if they have to. But only if forced.

There must be a fair amount of OT in that 400K number. We know what the hourly wage is.

ALPA E&FA has identified that AC can easily afford our adjusted 2003 rates and more.

And it should be more. Look at the adjusted cost environment in this country beyond BOC official inflation numbers, look at housing costs, look at the taxation regime we work under, all factors which cripples our income further from the environment 20 years ago when many of us came into this.

Air Canada will pay it because they have no choice.

They are gauging the solidarity of the membership on how much more they will have to go, running their calculation on cost.

The message from ALPA National to our leadership on resourcing us as much as needed is clear. When push comes to shove we will see what the power of a National union like this is capable of. Finally we out-resource the corporation in this fight. That's part of their calculation too.

[cdnavater]

And you think AC will pay anywhere near this?

I think AC will pay pre bankruptcy wages if they have to. But only if forced.

There must be a fair amount of OT in that 400K number. We know what the hourly wage is.

ALPA E&FA has identified that AC can easily afford our adjusted 2003 rates and more.

And it should be more. Look at the adjusted cost environment in this country beyond BOC official inflation numbers, look at housing costs, look at the taxation regime we work under, all factors which cripples our income further from the environment 20 years ago when many of us came into this.

Air Canada will pay it because they have no choice.

They are gauging the solidarity of the membership on how much more they will have to go, running their calculation on cost.

The message from ALPA National to our leadership on resourcing us as much as needed is clear. When push comes to shove we will see what the power of a National union like this is capable of. Finally we out-resource the corporation in this fight. That's part of their calculation too.

Hey, would you guys do us Jazz pilots a solid and add the CRJ900/E175 to your pay scale like United, maybe put it in as a minimum for that type regardless who operates it, thanks;)

[flying4dollars]

AC will pay because we already have signed up 2900 pilots on our list who will say NO to a contract if it’s a penny less than Delta contract. We are ready to strike for a year if we have to. AC doesnt know whats coming their way pissing off pilots like that. We will strike for a year!!!

Yes, might be more than a year if youre asking for 233% increases. Hopefully ALPA has a decent sized war chest, which I’m sure they do. Good luck! We’re all cheering for you.

Given the nature of some of the posts mocking ones like this thread, it appears not everyone is truly cheering for AC (not directed at you fyi). People forget that what happens at these negots will have a significant effect on the rest of the industry. For better or worse. So it really is in everyone's best interest to support AC pilots because it will in turn support the rest. And after years of career degradation, we collectively need this. It's now or never.

[thepoors]

A lot of management’s crows are hovering on avcanada. Their purpose is to keep scaring pilots and keep the bs narrative that we will be the top paid in Canada but we cant compare to US. I was to reiterate something important. We are not scared of you. We will strike if needed. NO MORE CHEAP LABOUR!!! Delta pay or nothing.

You guys need to stop the labeling of people as Management Shill, ACPA shill, etc, whenever they have a different opinion than you. It makes you look stupid and woke.

Understand this. We BOTH want to be paid like American Pilots. They have been negotiating contract after contract to get where they are now. It has taken time to get there. I worry that you will vote down a 3 year TA with say a 40-50% raise, no flat pay, vacation fixed, min daily guarantee and commuting policy because it does not pay Delta wages.

AC year 1 pay is currently $58k. 58x1.5=$87k - that should absolutely be voted down. It's an insult.

When Flair year 1 pay is $90k, no AC pilot should be accepting less than $100k.

From my understanding ALPA has already reached an agreement with the company on several of those points, and they will remain as agreed upon regardless of a lockout/strike. So we should be pushing for the highest pay possible. That's what's left to settle.

Why do you continue to promote the devaluation of this profession and accepting less than what we deserve?

[Canadaflyer46]

One thing that makes a lot of us pessimistic is we’ve heard this same rhetoric during the WJ negotiations. ALPA guys visiting from down south leading pickets chanting ‘North American standard contact’ and ‘we will make them’. Then 80% of the pilots here turned around and accepted a 15% raise.
Granted, we had the Swoop thorn to rid ourselves of and used up a lot of bargaining capital for that (which was the company’s plan since Swoop’s inception and the reason they shut it down right away after our new contract came into force).
I know ALPA there will also be using a lot of bargaining power to right the many wrongs in your contract, before even getting onto pay scales.
I hope sincerely that you all do fight and not accept a penny less than a US legacy airline. Someone needs to raise the floor in this country finally.

[kiaszceski]

And you think AC will pay anywhere near this?

I think AC will pay pre bankruptcy wages if they have to. But only if forced.

There must be a fair amount of OT in that 400K number. We know what the hourly wage is.

ALPA E&FA has identified that AC can easily afford our adjusted 2003 rates and more.

This is the most important statement.

FIGHT! Don't get scared. HOLD THE LINE.

Follow Charlene's lead!

#BeReady

[bradleyscotts]

A lot of management’s crows are hovering on avcanada. Their purpose is to keep scaring pilots and keep the bs narrative that we will be the top paid in Canada but we cant compare to US. I was to reiterate something important. We are not scared of you. We will strike if needed. NO MORE CHEAP LABOUR!!! Delta pay or nothing.

You guys need to stop the labeling of people as Management Shill, ACPA shill, etc, whenever they have a different opinion than you. It makes you look stupid and woke.

Understand this. We BOTH want to be paid like American Pilots. They have been negotiating contract after contract to get where they are now. It has taken time to get there. I worry that you will vote down a 3 year TA with say a 40-50% raise, no flat pay, vacation fixed, min daily guarantee and commuting policy because it does not pay Delta wages.

AC year 1 pay is currently $58k. 58x1.5=$87k - that should absolutely be voted down. It's an insult.

When Flair year 1 pay is $90k, no AC pilot should be accepting less than $100k.

From my understanding ALPA has already reached an agreement with the company on several of those points, and they will remain as agreed upon regardless of a lockout/strike. So we should be pushing for the highest pay possible. That's what's left to settle.

Why do you continue to promote the devaluation of this profession and accepting less than what we deserve?

Did you read what I said? I said no flat pay. Why are you adding 50% to flat pay? Please re-read what I wrote

[digits_]

From my understanding ALPA has already reached an agreement with the company on several of those points, and they will remain as agreed upon regardless of a lockout/strike.

That seems very doubtful. If the confrontation becomes ugly (strike), I doubt these gentlemen agreements will survive unscathed.

[altiplano]

From my understanding ALPA has already reached an agreement with the company on several of those points, and they will remain as agreed upon regardless of a lockout/strike.

That seems very doubtful. If the confrontation becomes ugly (strike), I doubt these gentlemen agreements will survive unscathed.

Backing out on agreements already made on articles, even if a final agreement on all articles hasn't been found, is bad faith.

The Labour Board can order a broad range of penalties including imposing agreements if a party is found to have acted in bad faith.

[digits_]

From my understanding ALPA has already reached an agreement with the company on several of those points, and they will remain as agreed upon regardless of a lockout/strike.

That seems very doubtful. If the confrontation becomes ugly (strike), I doubt these gentlemen agreements will survive unscathed.

Backing out on agreements already made on articles, even if a final agreement on all articles hasn't been found, is bad faith.

The Labour Board can order a broad range of penalties including imposing agreements if a party is found to have acted in bad faith.

"We'll give you X, Y, Z if you call of the strike and cancel our previously made agreement on article A". That wouldn't be bad faith, would it? That's merely negotiating.

[Apestogetherstrong]

A lot of management’s crows are hovering on avcanada. Their purpose is to keep scaring pilots and keep the bs narrative that we will be the top paid in Canada but we cant compare to US. I was to reiterate something important. We are not scared of you. We will strike if needed. NO MORE CHEAP LABOUR!!! Delta pay or nothing.

You guys need to stop the labeling of people as Management Shill, ACPA shill, etc, whenever they have a different opinion than you. It makes you look stupid and woke.

Understand this. We BOTH want to be paid like American Pilots. They have been negotiating contract after contract to get where they are now. It has taken time to get there. I worry that you will vote down a 3 year TA with say a 40-50% raise, no flat pay, vacation fixed, min daily guarantee and commuting policy because it does not pay Delta wages.

40 to 50% increase is not a world class contract. We need to raise the bar right. Management knows that ALPA is looking for a Delta contract match and MEC wont even present a 40% raise to the pilot group. Know your worth and be ready to strike

[Apestogetherstrong]

Compensation increase by % from 2021 to 2022

Michael Rousseau, president and ceo
$3,717,000 $12,375,100 233%

Amos Kazzaz, executive vice president and cfo
$1,303,900 $3,104,100 138%

Lucie Guillemette, executive vice president and cco
$1,083,900 $2,739,600 152%

Craig Landry, executive vice president, coo
$1,107,200 $2,932,400 164%

Arielle Meloul-Wechsler, executive vice president, chr public affairs
$1,062,400 $1,998,500 88%





YES WE WILL VOTE NO TO ANYHING BELOW Delta contract. All 2900 pilots will vote NO!

[newlygrounded]

Compensation increase by % from 2021 to 2022

Michael Rousseau, president and ceo
$3,717,000 $12,375,100 233%

Amos Kazzaz, executive vice president and cfo
$1,303,900 $3,104,100 138%

Lucie Guillemette, executive vice president and cco
$1,083,900 $2,739,600 152%

Craig Landry, executive vice president, coo
$1,107,200 $2,932,400 164%

Arielle Meloul-Wechsler, executive vice president, chr public affairs
$1,062,400 $1,998,500 88%





YES WE WILL VOTE NO TO ANYHING BELOW Delta contract. All 2900 pilots will vote NO!

Some how AC management are world class but the people they are managing didn't make the cut????

[thepoors]

You guys need to stop the labeling of people as Management Shill, ACPA shill, etc, whenever they have a different opinion than you. It makes you look stupid and woke.

Understand this. We BOTH want to be paid like American Pilots. They have been negotiating contract after contract to get where they are now. It has taken time to get there. I worry that you will vote down a 3 year TA with say a 40-50% raise, no flat pay, vacation fixed, min daily guarantee and commuting policy because it does not pay Delta wages.

AC year 1 pay is currently $58k. 58x1.5=$87k - that should absolutely be voted down. It's an insult.

When Flair year 1 pay is $90k, no AC pilot should be accepting less than $100k.

From my understanding ALPA has already reached an agreement with the company on several of those points, and they will remain as agreed upon regardless of a lockout/strike. So we should be pushing for the highest pay possible. That's what's left to settle.

Why do you continue to promote the devaluation of this profession and accepting less than what we deserve?

Did you read what I said? I said no flat pay. Why are you adding 50% to flat pay? Please re-read what I wrote

Do you not understand what flat pay is?

You can remove flat pay and still have a dogshit wage. Yes obviously flat pay needs to be removed but the base rate also needs to increase drastically.

Are you trying to say a 40-50% increase to current year 5 wages? ---> $109k x1.5 = $163k
I would vote yes to that no problem if that's the new starting pay.

[thepoors]

That seems very doubtful. If the confrontation becomes ugly (strike), I doubt these gentlemen agreements will survive unscathed.

Backing out on agreements already made on articles, even if a final agreement on all articles hasn't been found, is bad faith.

The Labour Board can order a broad range of penalties including imposing agreements if a party is found to have acted in bad faith.

"We'll give you X, Y, Z if you call of the strike and cancel our previously made agreement on article A". That wouldn't be bad faith, would it? That's merely negotiating.

I get what you're saying but as altiplano explained these are not gentlemen's agreements - it's labour law. It's illegal for them to go back on things they have already agreed to. They would (hopefully) get slapped by the Ministry of Labour if they tried something along those lines.

[digits_]

Backing out on agreements already made on articles, even if a final agreement on all articles hasn't been found, is bad faith.

The Labour Board can order a broad range of penalties including imposing agreements if a party is found to have acted in bad faith.

"We'll give you X, Y, Z if you call of the strike and cancel our previously made agreement on article A". That wouldn't be bad faith, would it? That's merely negotiating.

I get what you're saying but as altiplano explained these are not gentlemen's agreements - it's labour law. It's illegal for them to go back on things they have already agreed to. They would (hopefully) get slapped by the Ministry of Labour if they tried something along those lines.

Would it still be illegal if both parties agree to it though? Seems a bit weird. Not saying you're wrong, just trying to understand how it all works.

[flying4dollars]

From my understanding ALPA has already reached an agreement with the company on several of those points, and they will remain as agreed upon regardless of a lockout/strike.

That seems very doubtful. If the confrontation becomes ugly (strike), I doubt these gentlemen agreements will survive unscathed.

To my understanding, all of the items that have been tentatively agreed upon cannot be wiped out during the negots, with or without a strike. We will at LEAST have the items agreed upon. Anything escalating beyond that will be for all outstanding items. Someone else from the union can correct me if I'm wrong.

[cdnavater]

From my understanding ALPA has already reached an agreement with the company on several of those points, and they will remain as agreed upon regardless of a lockout/strike.

That seems very doubtful. If the confrontation becomes ugly (strike), I doubt these gentlemen agreements will survive unscathed.

To my understanding, all of the items that have been tentatively agreed upon cannot be wiped out during the negots, with or without a strike. We will at LEAST have the items agreed upon. Anything escalating beyond that will be for all outstanding items. Someone else from the union can correct me if I'm wrong.

Unless labour law has changed, I’m not sure that is true.
The way it was described to me from someone at the table, back in 2010, when the company received confirmation that the conservatives intended to legislate us back to work, the company came in and removed 10 million from the already agreed to items. It was put back in when we got word the other parties would not return from summer break to pass any such bill.

[Bede]

I get what you're saying but as altiplano explained these are not gentlemen's agreements - it's labour law. It's illegal for them to go back on things they have already agreed to.

Not really. I think you're alluding to receding horizon's but that's a poor understanding of it. If you cannot come to a deal and somehow you end up in arbitration, or a strike/lockout, absolutely everything will be on the table again.

They would (hopefully) get slapped by the Ministry of Labour if they tried something along those lines.

Ministry of Labour is provincial. Airlines deal with the Canada Industrial Relations Board and, sometimes, the Federal Conciliation and Mediation Service.

[Bingo Fuel]

Understand this. We BOTH want to be paid like American Pilots. They have been negotiating contract after contract to get where they are now. It has taken time to get there. I worry that you will vote down a 3 year TA with say a 40-50% raise, no flat pay, vacation fixed, min daily guarantee and commuting policy because it does not pay Delta wages.

This guy gets it.

But I think this perspective is only present in a minority of pilots.

I don't think the company will ever propose something that 51% of pilots will vote yes to.

We'll wind up in binding arbitration with a garbage contract shoved down our throats instead.

I hope I'm wrong.

[braaap Braap]

We'll wind up in binding arbitration with a garbage contract shoved down our throats instead.

I hope I'm wrong.

Based on what? Current Liberal government has shown time and time again that they will not meddle with Workers rights (example: Longshoremen). Previous tactics from the Conservatives has been struck down by the Supreme Court. Please stop fear mongering