DELTA CONTRACT 2024 = AC contract at a minimum!

[flogolik]

In a few months you will be required to vote on a contract. As ALPA promised we will get a world class contract. It would be in the ballpark range of US carriers. Keep in mind that the contract shown below is in USD. DO NOT ACCEPT anything below Delta contract converted in CAD. Know your worth! We are working for the national flag carrier and are not pu##ies.

We will NOT say yes to anything below Delta! More reminders to come.

Exactly, Delta is comparable to Air Canada.

[BTD]

I get what you're saying but as altiplano explained these are not gentlemen's agreements - it's labour law. It's illegal for them to go back on things they have already agreed to.

Not really. I think you're alluding to receding horizon's but that's a poor understanding of it. If you cannot come to a deal and somehow you end up in arbitration, or a strike/lockout, absolutely everything will be on the table again.

They would (hopefully) get slapped by the Ministry of Labour if they tried something along those lines.

Ministry of Labour is provincial. Airlines deal with the Canada Industrial Relations Board and, sometimes, the Federal Conciliation and Mediation Service.

I’m no expert, but based on what ALPA LRD department said during some of our town halls it would be unlikely that previously agreed to articles would be tossed aside. Especially in arbitration, the arbitrator would likely use those tentative agreements.

So based on their opinion, technically it could be tossed out, but it would be extremely unlikely. But wth do I know.

[itsgrosswhatinet]

We'll wind up in binding arbitration with a garbage contract shoved down our throats instead.

I hope I'm wrong.

Based on what? Current Liberal government has shown time and time again that they will not meddle with Workers rights (example: Longshoremen). Previous tactics from the Conservatives has been struck down by the Supreme Court. Please stop fear mongering

Don't wrestle with pigs.

[DanWEC]

Get this done while the Libs are still in power.

[Hysteria]

I think United is paid a bit more than Delta. That is, if the photo on the first page of this thread is accurate. In any case, between MMG, premium, 17-18% company contribution pension, profit share… AA, United and Delta are paid fairly similarly.

United only includes A380 as a contingency.

[Hysteria]

I found Delta’s 2026 pay as well.

[thepoors]

I found Delta’s 2026 pay as well.

3rd year Delta 220 FO makes more than a AC 220 CA...nice...

[vanislepilot]

I found Delta’s 2026 pay as well.

3rd year Delta 220 FO makes more than a AC 220 CA...nice...

Its worse than that,

If you look at the conversion and difference in tax, a first year FO at Delta will take more home than a A220 CA at AC.

On pure conversion (No tax considered) the second year FO makes more.

Not to mention the opportunity to earn more in OT and cities with much lower cost of living than Vancouver and Toronto

[thepoors]

I found Delta’s 2026 pay as well.

3rd year Delta 220 FO makes more than a AC 220 CA...nice...

Its worse than that,

If you look at the conversion and difference in tax, a first year FO at Delta will take more home than a A220 CA at AC.

On pure conversion (No tax considered) the second year FO makes more.

Not to mention the opportunity to earn more in OT and cities with much lower cost of living than Vancouver and Toronto

For my own sanity I've stopped even considering the conversion rate. It's bad enough dollar for dollar.

What boggles the mind is there are still pilots at AC making excuses for this and saying we should be happy with a 40% gain. How little self worth does someone have to put themselves in that mindset?..

[khedrei]

I dont think there is a single thing in this country that could be considered "world class" at this point. I really doubt a pilots contract at AC (the western world's most pathetic national carrier) is going to to be the first thing to achieve that status.

I do hope I'm wrong because it will help all the pilots out, but the pragmatist in me doesn't see it.

Ill put my prediction here for future reference...

WJ +5-10%

[altiplano]

I dont think there is a single thing in this country that could be considered "world class" at this point. I really doubt a pilots contract at AC (the western world's most pathetic national carrier) is going to to be the first thing to achieve that status.

I do hope I'm wrong because it will help all the pilots out, but the pragmatist in me doesn't see it.

Ill put my prediction here for future reference...

WJ +5-10%

The majority of the AC Pilot group won't accept anywhere close to that and has more to gain than the company has to lose.

There's no way we come back from a strike/lockout scenario for less than 2003 plus inflation and a rollback of 20 years of concessions on quality of life, scheduling, vacation, reserve, and more.

About 1/3 of the AC list will earn more on strike than at work today.

AC can FAFO or get real, and they better real quick. 60 day timer starts this week. Now is the time. Whatever it takes.

[theacolyte]

The majority of the AC Pilot group won't accept anywhere close to that and has more to gain than the company has to lose.

There's no way we come back from a strike/lockout scenario for less than 2003 plus inflation and a rollback of 20 years of concessions on quality of life, scheduling, vacation, reserve, and more.

About 1/3 of the AC list will earn more on strike than at work today.

AC can FAFO or get real, and they better real quick. 60 day timer starts this week. Now is the time. Whatever it takes.

I am prepared to walk for months if needed. I have more than enough money saved up, and am ready to do what is nessicary to regain a industry standard contract.

[Apestogetherstrong]

Everyone download a Delta contract copy. If its not the same keep voting NO. Alpa strike is better anyway for a major chunk of pilots. A lot have already saved up for strike. We will not undervalue ourselves. What is a reasonable year one FO pay? Is it 100k, 130k, $150k or $170k? What is a reasonable year 2 FO pay? Is it 170k? Is it 200k?

The simple answer is = Delta contract pay!

[Fanblade]

I dont think there is a single thing in this country that could be considered "world class" at this point. I really doubt a pilots contract at AC (the western world's most pathetic national carrier) is going to to be the first thing to achieve that status.

I do hope I'm wrong because it will help all the pilots out, but the pragmatist in me doesn't see it.

Ill put my prediction here for future reference...

WJ +5-10%

I’ll put my prediction here as well then.

WJ +5-10% is substantially less than we made prior to 911. This group, for various reasons, has not been able to recover from bankruptcy protection. This is our first opportunity.

So if you are right. That the BOD will refuse to give back what we gave for the survival of this company.

There will be a strike in September.

The window is getting narrower. Anywhere from September 17-21 depending on when a conciliator is appointed.

[lownslow]

WJ +5-10%

That offer was made and immediately rejected by the NC over a year ago, or so I heard.

[altiplano]

I would expect that a conciliator will be appointed today.

If the feds wait until next week it won't be until Tuesday and that makes the 16th day.

[Dias]

We shall see. In my own dealings with this government they won't do anything and there's nothing you can do about it.

[flying4dollars]

I would expect that a conciliator will be appointed today.

If the feds wait until next week it won't be until Tuesday and that makes the 16th day.

I believe once the notice is given (on a business day), the 15 day clock starts regardless of weekends or holidays. Therefore the deadline is July 1 (Monday).

[nowind]

I like the Idea and Im not planning on voting yes on anything less than Delta contract. Everyone seems to think that a strike will be enough to get what we deserve. But are the feds really gonna let us strike, if so for how long. I really doubt the government will let us walk for more than few hours because it will affect the economic security of the country and the company probably know more on this. So once the government vote for that back to work legislation, what leverage do we have left? What is the next play. I think we should all be on the same page on this and know exatly what will need to be done at this point to get this wcc.

[Jean-Pierre]

It is out

[Dash.Trash]

I like the Idea and Im not planning on voting yes on anything less than Delta contract. Everyone seems to think that a strike will be enough to get what we deserve. But are the feds really gonna let us strike, if so for how long. I really doubt the government will let us walk for more than few hours because it will affect the economic security of the country and the company probably know more on this. So once the government vote for that back to work legislation, what leverage do we have left? What is the next play. I think we should all be on the same page on this and know exatly what will need to be done at this point to get this wcc.

You have to understand how legislation gets passed. This is a minority government. They can’t pass legislation by themselves, they require support from another party. Currently they have a confidence and supply arrangement with the NDP. The NDP will never support back to work legislation, it would be political suicide. Jagmeet has publicly stated this on several occasions. The conservatives won’t support anything the liberals propose, they will literally just do the opposite.

So they will have an extremely difficult time trying to pass legislation to get us back to work, and even if they somehow pull it off it will not be a quick process, as the constitutional right to strike has been confirmed by the Supreme Court. They can draft legislation after a strike has begun, but not preemptively prevent one from happening.

[nowind]

Yeah I get all that but Im still convinced they will find a way to get us back to work…you forgot about the bloc quebecois….and Im still not sure the conservative would not approve it. Once we give that 72 hours notice, things will move fast and we need to stop thinking that it wont happen and start thinking ahead. They might give us few days to get a ta but the feds will intervene a some point.

[Dias]

At least we got Bobby Orr!

[Dash.Trash]

Yeah I get all that but Im still convinced they will find a way to get us back to work…you forgot about the bloc quebecois….and Im still not sure the conservative would not approve it. Once we give that 72 hours notice, things will move fast and we need to stop thinking that it wont happen and start thinking ahead. They might give us few days to get a ta but the feds will intervene a some point.

Nobody has stopped thinking that it won’t happen. The MEC has said they have contingency plans for as many scenarios as they can think of. They are not just sitting around with their fingers in their ears pretending it could never happen. They expect it to be unlikely but are prepared for every eventuality they can.

[theacolyte]

AMEs just walked off the job. Their claim is that even with the arbitration ruling, the government was silent on their strike notice and therefore is still valid.

Going to be an interesting weekend.