Which sh!tty operator is advertising internationally?

[goingnowherefast]

Most of those types don't make it past sim 2. When a candidate can't fly a normal departure, yet alone handle malfunctions, it becomes obvious that the logbook isn't accurate. Employment gets terminated on the grounds of "you can't fly airplanes". The hiring company only wastes their own time and sim slots.

I'm not painting immigrants as bad, and there's certainly lots of good people coming to Canada. Just that most of the good ones have EASA or FAA licenses and get paid better in Europe or the US. Current Canadian pilot pay means we're not competitive on the international pilot job market.

[yytfo]

Not PAL.

They just sent all of our FO's that don't have citizenship yet to get visas for US flying. Don't think they will be sponsoring any work permits here. Pretty sure they only want Citizens or PR with ability to travel to US.

Also I don't know why the comparisons of PAL to EVAS. Not even close.

[Maxim]

Looks like CMA,

We are delighted to offer you the following type-rated and non-type-rated Captain offers from our client, one of the main Canadian private airlines:



TR and NTR Dash 8 Captains required in Canada



BENEFITS:

Remuneration: up to 120,000 CAD per year (according to experience)
Employee/Family Assistance Program
· RRSP Matching Program

Retirement Savings program
Upgrade programs for pilots
Health, dental, short-term disability, long-term disability, life insurance and travel emergency medical insurance
Hotel corporate rates in our CMA base cities.
Competitive sick and personal leave benefits
Work permits for international pilots will be processed by the airline.
APPLY HERE:

https://pilotsdb.brookfieldav.com/showj ... -in-Canada







TR and NTR B1900 Captains required in Canada



BENEFITS:

Remuneration: up to 115,000 CAD per year (according to experience)
Employee/Family Assistance Program
· RRSP Matching Program

Upgrade programs for pilots
Health, dental, short-term disability, long-term disability, life insurance and travel emergency medical insurance
Hotel corporate rates in our CMA base cities.
Competitive sick and personal leave benefits
Work permits for international pilots will be processed by the airline.
APPLY HERE:

https://pilotsdb.brookfieldav.com/showj ... -in-Canada





Best regards,

[Eric Janson]

I think you missed the point... I'm pretty sure no one here is implying that those in less fortunate situations, shouldn't be given a chance at a better opportunity, but to automatically be given a work permit, and license recognition, just to undercut those at home who would be willing to do the job, just for a little bit more money, is not the way to go about it

People earlier in the thread were claiming pay in Canada was the lowest globally and nobody would apply.

Both statements are incorrect.

As for the rest - that's a separate discussion imho.

[twa22]

I think you missed the point... I'm pretty sure no one here is implying that those in less fortunate situations, shouldn't be given a chance at a better opportunity, but to automatically be given a work permit, and license recognition, just to undercut those at home who would be willing to do the job, just for a little bit more money, is not the way to go about it

People earlier in the thread were claiming pay in Canada was the lowest globally and nobody would apply.

Both statements are incorrect.

As for the rest - that's a separate discussion imho.

People misconstrue "lowest" pay... Dollar for dollar, Canada has some of highest on paper VS other parts of the world.... However, how far that dollar gets you is another story... Hence why people say we are the lowest, and they are probably right. Paying an FO 60k a year when rent costs 25-30k a year is not exactly a liveable wage

[Me262]

Most of those types don't make it past sim 2. When a candidate can't fly a normal departure, yet alone handle malfunctions, it becomes obvious that the logbook isn't accurate. Employment gets terminated on the grounds of "you can't fly airplanes". The hiring company only wastes their own time and sim slots.

I'm not painting immigrants as bad, and there's certainly lots of good people coming to Canada. Just that most of the good ones have EASA or FAA licenses and get paid better in Europe or the US. Current Canadian pilot pay means we're not competitive on the international pilot job market.

Entry level jet time I'm almost sure EASA carriers pays less than Canada, with cost of living comparable to Canada, especially for FO's (think €2000 net monthly)

[digits_]

Most of those types don't make it past sim 2. When a candidate can't fly a normal departure, yet alone handle malfunctions, it becomes obvious that the logbook isn't accurate. Employment gets terminated on the grounds of "you can't fly airplanes". The hiring company only wastes their own time and sim slots.

I'm not painting immigrants as bad, and there's certainly lots of good people coming to Canada. Just that most of the good ones have EASA or FAA licenses and get paid better in Europe or the US. Current Canadian pilot pay means we're not competitive on the international pilot job market.

Entry level jet time I'm almost sure EASA carriers pays less than Canada, with cost of living comparable to Canada, especially for FO's (think €2000 net monthly)

2000 EUR net works out to about 3500 EUR gross, which is about 5000 CAD gross / month. About 60 000 CAD/year. It highly depends on the country of course, but they are somewhat similar.

For captains, the difference will on average be significantly larger I think.

[Me262]

Most of those types don't make it past sim 2. When a candidate can't fly a normal departure, yet alone handle malfunctions, it becomes obvious that the logbook isn't accurate. Employment gets terminated on the grounds of "you can't fly airplanes". The hiring company only wastes their own time and sim slots.

I'm not painting immigrants as bad, and there's certainly lots of good people coming to Canada. Just that most of the good ones have EASA or FAA licenses and get paid better in Europe or the US. Current Canadian pilot pay means we're not competitive on the international pilot job market.

Entry level jet time I'm almost sure EASA carriers pays less than Canada, with cost of living comparable to Canada, especially for FO's (think €2000 net monthly)

2000 EUR net works out to about 3500 EUR gross, which is about 5000 CAD gross / month. About 60 000 CAD/year. It highly depends on the country of course, but they are somewhat similar.

For captains, the difference will on average be significantly larger I think.

But 5000 (more like 5200) gross is not 3000 CAD net (€2000 equivalent), it's more (as high as canadian income taxes are compared to US, EU income taxes are higher than Canada, not to mention VAT around 20% vs 12-13%). It's close to 3500-4000 depending which province you live in.

And until 2022/23 when Turdo decided to import 2mil immigrants destroying the rental prices, the roughly 4000 CAD net would stretch further than €2000. Today, yes, that is not the case anymore.

[336pointview]

I see some you are ignorant of conditions in other parts of the World.

There are Pilots flying Q400 in Nigeria, India and Angola to give 3 examples.

I've spent time in all 3 countries - in 2 of them crews weren't allowed out of the hotel!

Pilots in these countries will jump at this opportunity imho.

I've worked in six continents over the years, some crappy, some great. Let me avoid vagueness. Would pick any of them over the low pay, crappy benefits, trashy conditions and high cost of living on offer in Canada. It's the superfecta of an aweful place to work in aviation

[digits_]

I see some you are ignorant of conditions in other parts of the World.

There are Pilots flying Q400 in Nigeria, India and Angola to give 3 examples.

I've spent time in all 3 countries - in 2 of them crews weren't allowed out of the hotel!

Pilots in these countries will jump at this opportunity imho.

I've worked in six continents over the years, some crappy, some great. Let me avoid vagueness. Would pick any of them over the low pay, crappy benefits, trashy conditions and high cost of living on offer in Canada. It's the superfecta of an aweful place to work in aviation

In which continent are you working right now or planning to settle down?

[Me262]

I see some you are ignorant of conditions in other parts of the World.

There are Pilots flying Q400 in Nigeria, India and Angola to give 3 examples.

I've spent time in all 3 countries - in 2 of them crews weren't allowed out of the hotel!

Pilots in these countries will jump at this opportunity imho.

I've worked in six continents over the years, some crappy, some great. Let me avoid vagueness. Would pick any of them over the low pay, crappy benefits, trashy conditions and high cost of living on offer in Canada. It's the superfecta of an aweful place to work in aviation

Well... don't let us hanging... Let us know which continents/countries and how was it (pay, benefits, conditions, etc)

[Eric Janson]

I see some you are ignorant of conditions in other parts of the World.

There are Pilots flying Q400 in Nigeria, India and Angola to give 3 examples.

I've spent time in all 3 countries - in 2 of them crews weren't allowed out of the hotel!

Pilots in these countries will jump at this opportunity imho.

I've worked in six continents over the years, some crappy, some great. Let me avoid vagueness. Would pick any of them over the low pay, crappy benefits, trashy conditions and high cost of living on offer in Canada. It's the superfecta of an aweful place to work in aviation

I take it you were working as an Expat - with nice perks and a Tax Free salary?

Unless you were working on local terms?

I’ve operated to all 7 continents - within the last 12 months.

The one thing I have learned is to appreciate 'home' a lot more.

The problems listed above are not restricted to Canada - you could copy/paste that for a lot of places imho.

[336pointview]

take it you were working as an Expat - with nice perks and a Tax Free salary?
Unless you were working on local terms

All local terms.

I’ve operated to all 7 continents - within the last 12 months.

Good for you. Have a gold star. Doesn't mean you know anything about living in that particular country. I just got back from Kazakhstan yesterday. Have no idea what it's like to live there.

Operating into a country is vastly different from living there.

[khedrei]

It's not just flying in canada. Canada is one of the worst places to live economically in the advanced world.

With the way some of our cities look, and our health care system deficiencies, I would argue that it's not just economicaly bad, but bad in many other ways.

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/blogs/2 ... investment.

[digits_]

It's not just flying in canada. Canada is one of the worst places to live economically in the advanced world.

Do you honestly think other countries aren't facing the same problems

Housing costs are an issue everywhere.
Intrest rates/debts are a huge problem in the US. Especially if you include student loans and the cost of healthcare.
Brexit is still affecting the UK.

If you compare Toronto to an average town in Europe, you might conclude Canada is the worst place to live, but that has nothing to do with Canada. You can come to the opposite conclusion if you were to compare a rural Canadian town to London for example.

Complaining is one thing, but these statements are just silly. Appreciate what you have, it could be much much worse.

[khedrei]

It's not just flying in canada. Canada is one of the worst places to live economically in the advanced world.

Do you honestly think other countries aren't facing the same problems

Housing costs are an issue everywhere.
Intrest rates/debts are a huge problem in the US. Especially if you include student loans and the cost of healthcare.
Brexit is still affecting the UK.

If you compare Toronto to an average town in Europe, you might conclude Canada is the worst place to live, but that has nothing to do with Canada. You can come to the opposite conclusion if you were to compare a rural Canadian town to London for example.

Complaining is one thing, but these statements are just silly. Appreciate what you have, it could be much much worse.

Pretty sure you didn't read the article.

Canada was 5th worst performing economy in 38 advanced nations from 2019 to 2022.

Canada is expected to be THE WORST performing economy of those 38 advanced nation for the next 35 years.

You are right, other advanced nations are having problems. Ours are just worse which was my point.

Could our problems be worse... sure I guess. We could drop out of "advanced" nation status and be compared to countries in south America.

Glad your bar for this country is set really high. Though maybe the prevalence of your attitude around the country is the reason why we are in this mess.

[‘Bob’]

It's not just flying in canada. Canada is one of the worst places to live economically in the advanced world.

Do you honestly think other countries aren't facing the same problems

Housing costs are an issue everywhere.
Intrest rates/debts are a huge problem in the US. Especially if you include student loans and the cost of healthcare.
Brexit is still affecting the UK.

If you compare Toronto to an average town in Europe, you might conclude Canada is the worst place to live, but that has nothing to do with Canada. You can come to the opposite conclusion if you were to compare a rural Canadian town to London for example.

Complaining is one thing, but these statements are just silly. Appreciate what you have, it could be much much worse.

Pretty sure you didn't read the article.

Canada was 5th worst performing economy in 38 advanced nations from 2019 to 2022.

Canada is expected to be THE WORST performing economy of those 38 advanced nation for the next 35 years.

You are right, other advanced nations are having problems. Ours are just worse which was my point.

Could our problems be worse... sure I guess. We could drop out of "advanced" nation status and be compared to countries in south America.

Glad your bar for this country is set really high. Though maybe the prevalence of your attitude around the country is the reason why we are in this mess.

So it might be the worst performing economy according to cherry picked data by an extreme right wing think tank….

[khedrei]

Ill bite. Find me one of your left wing cherry picked articles that says we are a much better performing nation for GDP per capita, health care, salaries vs inflation.

I'm all ears.

[digits_]

It's not just flying in canada. Canada is one of the worst places to live economically in the advanced world.

Canada was 5th worst performing economy in 38 advanced nations from 2019 to 2022.

I'd hardly call 5th position to be 'one of the worst'

Canada is expected to be THE WORST performing economy of those 38 advanced nation for the next 35 years.

Seriously, an economic forecast 35 years in the future? And that carries *any* weight?

[Mrs. Andry]

Canada was 5th worst performing economy in 38 advanced nations from 2019 to 2022.

I'd hardly call 5th position to be 'one of the worst'

Read it again buddy

[khedrei]

Canada was 5th worst performing economy in 38 advanced nations from 2019 to 2022.

I'd hardly call 5th position to be 'one of the worst'

Read it again buddy

[khedrei]

And yes, I'd say a 35 year economic forcast does carry some weight.

First of all, they broke it down into two blocks. The first one 10 years, the next 30 years.

Second, even if they weren't right and we were second worst, or 5th worst like we are now... or maybe we are only the worst performing for 20 years instead of 35. Or even 10 years... none of that is good. The key is, economists know that canada isn't looking good.

Lastly, large business investments are not difficult to see. These huge companies that put roots down are looking WAY into the future. Do they make mistakes, sure. Do companies pack up and leave early, sure. But these people know that a lot of business and a lot of capital has LEFT canada. Sure it's possible some of it could return, or we could get new investment. The key is, it's a pretty good indicator that we are in for a crappy couple decades.

You keep voting liberal... unlike shillbill I AM actually looking into leaving.

You keep trying to argue against my points that canadas economy is in the toilet and that we are worse off than other countries with the only fact you have presented being the fact that you don't like it. I've asked for it from bill. Go ahead and post some articles saying how good we are doing as a country... even left wing ones are fine. Truth is... even the left wing media, mother of all fabricators can't fabricate a story that says we are doing well. Believe me, I would love to read one. Maybe give us some hope. Sadly I have yet to find any.

[pelmet]

It's not just flying in canada. Canada is one of the worst places to live economically in the advanced world.

Complaining is one thing, but these statements are just silly. Appreciate what you have, it could be much much worse.

Sounds like a liberal.

How about, our standard of living is declining and that decline appears set to accelerate based on the policies of the current government(incredibly frivolous spending and economic self-strangulation based on policies that have no actual benefit except to transfer wealth to other countries on a massive scale).

[digits_]

It's not just flying in canada. Canada is one of the worst places to live economically in the advanced world.

Complaining is one thing, but these statements are just silly. Appreciate what you have, it could be much much worse.

How about, our standard of living is declining and it appears set to accelerate based on the policies of the current government(incredibly frivolous spending and economic self-strangulation based on policies that have no actual benefit except to transfer wealth to other countries on a massive scale).

I'm not debating the absolute value of that statement (even though I don't agree with it, but it's irrelevant for the point I'm making). I'm debating the comparison to other countries.

You can find the exact sentiment you're writing down in probably every western country today. Canada is not unique in that regards. Housing prices are going up everywhere. Inflation is significant everywhere. Immigration (good or bad) is happening everywhere. Cultures changing is happening everywhere. Aging population is happening everywhere. Climate change policies (with associated costs and taxes) are being implemented everywhere, and often way stricter than in Canada.

With 'everywhere' meaning the advanced world referenced above.

[khedrei]

Complaining is one thing, but these statements are just silly. Appreciate what you have, it could be much much worse.

How about, our standard of living is declining and it appears set to accelerate based on the policies of the current government(incredibly frivolous spending and economic self-strangulation based on policies that have no actual benefit except to transfer wealth to other countries on a massive scale).

I'm not debating the absolute value of that statement (even though I don't agree with it, but it's irrelevant for the point I'm making). I'm debating the comparison to other countries.

You can find the exact sentiment you're writing down in probably every western country today. Canada is not unique in that regards. Housing prices are going up everywhere. Inflation is significant everywhere. Immigration (good or bad) is happening everywhere. Cultures changing is happening everywhere. Aging population is happening everywhere. Climate change policies (with associated costs and taxes) are being implemented everywhere, and often way stricter than in Canada.

With 'everywhere' meaning the advanced world referenced above.

You are debating the comparison to other countries? What exactly are you debating in regards to that? Are you saying we are the same as other countries in regards to those metrics above because that same sentiments can be found in other countries? It's not the same because we ARE IN FACT WORSE than (most) other advanced countries. Any claim otherwise is simply false. Happy to be proven wrong.

You're debating we aren't worse than other countries. Show me.