Standing up to bully tactics pays off

[thepoors]

I hope this group is closely monitoring what happened with WJ AMEs/AMFA. Unlike the WJ pilot groups, they demonstrated strength and unity when it mattered, called the company's bluff, and won. This is the result when you don't cave to "pressure." In spite of the TA, WJ continues gaslighting their employees and the public with their press releases.

Bad faith bargaining, intimidation, false claims, gaslighting. Be ready to expect all of this and worse from AC management. Just remember we have the real power and leverage, not the company. We must not be bullied into submission and we will get the contract we deserve.

[JHR]

Unfortunately there are some calls for airline employees to be considered essential workers after the long weekend shutdown. The government is studying it...probably pass legislation just in time to avoid a strike by AC pilots. Hopefully I am wrong!

[Dias]

Hopefully I am wrong!

[JustaCanadian]

How does this essential worker stuff work? I feel like I have so many questions about it.

And if you were essential, shouldn't this be on the of the first lines in your contract with the company?

[cjp]

Unfortunately there are some calls for airline employees to be considered essential workers after the long weekend shutdown. The government is studying it...probably pass legislation just in time to avoid a strike by AC pilots. Hopefully I am wrong!

If there was only one airline, or they had exclusive service - but Westjet's flying can generally be well covered by every other operator in Canada. Granted AC likely has slightly more diverse flying that can't be shared by a Canadian carrier, the US carriers ability to cover international and all other carriers ability to cover transborder and domestic should be plenty. At no point should a flight crew be considered an essential service to stave off wage progression - quite the contrary, essential service should put pressure on the corporation to pay up big time to keep the crews working.

[digits_]

Unfortunately there are some calls for airline employees to be considered essential workers after the long weekend shutdown. The government is studying it...probably pass legislation just in time to avoid a strike by AC pilots. Hopefully I am wrong!

Legislation such as "management shall not lock out employees if they demand inflation corrected wages"?

[cdnavater]

Unfortunately there are some calls for airline employees to be considered essential workers after the long weekend shutdown. The government is studying it...probably pass legislation just in time to avoid a strike by AC pilots. Hopefully I am wrong!

If the NDP wants to commit political suicide, otherwise they won’t support a bill that affects unionized workers to that degree.
The conservatives won’t support anything the Liberals attempt at this point, so I don’t see this type of bill passing anytime soon; for Christ sake they just passed a bill preventing companies from using replacement workers during a strike, this is just a minister beaking off after having his pecker out for all to see. Incompetence at the highest level!

[altiplano]

Essential service, eh.

Ever hear of a fireman taking a cut in pay or lifestyle?

[TCAS II]

Hasn’t COVID proven that pilots aren’t essential workers? Airports were ghost towns.

[Man_in_the_sky]

Essential service, eh.

Ever hear of a fireman taking a cut in pay or lifestyle?

Surete du quebec is close to 2.5 years without progress in nego

[Me262]

Hasn’t COVID proven that pilots aren’t essential workers? Airports were ghost towns.

Especially vaccine mandates. It was 100% flying not essential since you were banned from flying if you weren't injected. ALPA better stand up against it if the state decides now to arbitrarily change flying to essential.

[Fanblade]

https://www.canada.ca/en/treasury-board ... tions.html

When a service is identified as essential, it means there are reasonable grounds to believe that the safety or security of the public would be at risk if a work stoppage interrupted……

In labour law essential service is defined as risk to life and limb. The CIRB has repeatedly reaffirmed this. A medivac company might be. An airline? It’s a very long shot.

If an essential service referral is made to the CIRB, there are written submissions or a hearing to determine which parts are considered essential to life and limb if any. Once the essential piece is carved out the remainder can strike. At best a company can try to delay a strike through this method. The CIRB is wary of this gambit.

Even a group that is determined to be an essential service like customs can still resort to self help. They just can’t completely cease working. We just saw this about to happen with border services.

[goingnowherefast]

What sort of not-a-strike self help can apply to the airlines?

Are we allowed to taxi slow and fly slow to "save gas", OTP be damned?

[CaptDukeNukem]

What sort of not-a-strike self help can apply to the airlines?

Are we allowed to taxi slow and fly slow to "save gas", OTP be damned?

I don’t work for AC, but start the APU “due to cabin temperatures” for example. Stick to safety related items.

Flying slow doesn’t always help, and frankly saves on the highest cost of airlines. Better would be to fly fast, burn extra fuel and wait for a gate.

[Fanblade]

What sort of not-a-strike self help can apply to the airlines?

Are we allowed to taxi slow and fly slow to "save gas", OTP be damned?

Options if we were deemed essential service. Which we won’t. But to add some colour.

You could destroy the network connection planning.

Essential service can’t apply outside of Canada. So only domestic flying.

But I think you missed the point. There is nothing about AC that I am aware of that would be considered a life and limb issue by the CIRB.

If there is something about the AC operation that would be seen as essential to the point of life and limb then it would be small. That identified operation would need to be serviced while the rest of the operation was on strike.

An essential service designation does not mean everything is essential. It’s not all or nothing. It simply means the pieces identified as essential must continue during a strike.

In the case of law enforcement, firefighters and customs most of what they do is considered essential, which is why we seem to have this impression that essential service is all or nothing.

An Airline like AC or WJ are more likely to try an essential service application as a way to delay a strike. But that is about it.

[goingnowherefast]

Strikes suck, I'm mostly thinking of ways to apply pressure before a strike becomes necessary.

I'd avoid using safety as an excuse. Kinda like the boy who cried wolf, it reduces credibility for actual safety issues.

Kinda hard to fly fast and burn extra gas when dispatch hardly gives us enough to begin with.

Delays are very expensive for an airline. Everything from customer relations to labour costs across the whole company. Need more phone center people to deal with passenger complaints, pay the rampies OT to stay late. Flying slow means air crew get more money. It also damages network connection planning.

Flying at the speed for max range is more expensive than at the best cost-index speed.

[digits_]

[deleted]

[Fanblade]

Strikes suck, I'm mostly thinking of ways to apply pressure before a strike becomes necessary.

Yes but not through illegal job action.

Let your SPSC and COMMS Committee do its job.

Enjoy your summer. And then when Charlene says jump? Your only question should be how high.

[theacolyte]

I mean it would be sick if a ton of people all decided to enjoy their summer at the same time.

[Me262]

I mean it would be sick if a ton of people all decided to enjoy their summer at the same time.

https://www.euronews.com/2024/07/09/rom ... s-stranded

Passengers at Henri Coandă International Airport in Bucharest faced frustration as multiple Tarom Airlines flights were cancelled due to pilots calling in sick on Monday, as the union demanded better wages.

Like this?

24hrs later they got 1500€ monthly increase on base salary in 3 increments

[CaptDukeNukem]

I mean it would be sick if a ton of people all decided to enjoy their summer at the same time.

https://www.euronews.com/2024/07/09/rom ... s-stranded

Passengers at Henri Coandă International Airport in Bucharest faced frustration as multiple Tarom Airlines flights were cancelled due to pilots calling in sick on Monday, as the union demanded better wages.

Like this?

24hrs later they got 1500€ monthly increase on base salary in 3 increments

Romania’s transport minister, Sorin Grindeanu, said in an interview with Agerpres, reported by Spotlight.ro, that he sees the company shedding half its staff.

"A company the size of Tarom normally has around 500, 600 employees, 90% of whom are flight personnel. We have double that,” he added.

Awesome, good result. Except half the staff gonna lose their jobs now.

[cdnavater]

I mean it would be sick if a ton of people all decided to enjoy their summer at the same time.

https://www.euronews.com/2024/07/09/rom ... s-stranded

Passengers at Henri Coandă International Airport in Bucharest faced frustration as multiple Tarom Airlines flights were cancelled due to pilots calling in sick on Monday, as the union demanded better wages.

Like this?

24hrs later they got 1500€ monthly increase on base salary in 3 increments

Romania’s transport minister, Sorin Grindeanu, said in an interview with Agerpres, reported by Spotlight.ro, that he sees the company shedding half its staff.

"A company the size of Tarom normally has around 500, 600 employees, 90% of whom are flight personnel. We have double that,” he added.

Awesome, good result. Except half the staff gonna lose their jobs now.

I didn’t read the linked articles but logically 300 good jobs is better than 600 not so good jobs, it was the reason the Jazz MEC did not reduce the MMG during Covid, 1500 part time jobs is not good for anyone, sure you’re employed but at half your salary.

[Me262]

I mean it would be sick if a ton of people all decided to enjoy their summer at the same time.

https://www.euronews.com/2024/07/09/rom ... s-stranded

Passengers at Henri Coandă International Airport in Bucharest faced frustration as multiple Tarom Airlines flights were cancelled due to pilots calling in sick on Monday, as the union demanded better wages.

Like this?

24hrs later they got 1500€ monthly increase on base salary in 3 increments

Romania’s transport minister, Sorin Grindeanu, said in an interview with Agerpres, reported by Spotlight.ro, that he sees the company shedding half its staff.

"A company the size of Tarom normally has around 500, 600 employees, 90% of whom are flight personnel. We have double that,” he added.

Awesome, good result. Except half the staff gonna lose their jobs now.

Half the staff of paper pushers. It's a state owned company after all so bureaucracy driven. They are actually short pilots, FA, AMEs like the rest of the world.

[theacolyte]

I mean it would be sick if a ton of people all decided to enjoy their summer at the same time.

https://www.euronews.com/2024/07/09/rom ... s-stranded

Passengers at Henri Coandă International Airport in Bucharest faced frustration as multiple Tarom Airlines flights were cancelled due to pilots calling in sick on Monday, as the union demanded better wages.

Like this?

24hrs later they got 1500€ monthly increase on base salary in 3 increments

""A company the size of Tarom normally has around 500, 600 employees, 90% of whom are flight personnel. We have double that,” he added."

Air Canada could use a purge as well. The amount of meddling middle managers of some random department is quite immense. Remnants of the crown corporation days. AC has the potential to be run so much smoother but would require a major shakeup in all departments.

[theacolyte]

https://www.euronews.com/2024/07/09/rom ... s-stranded



Like this?

24hrs later they got 1500€ monthly increase on base salary in 3 increments

Romania’s transport minister, Sorin Grindeanu, said in an interview with Agerpres, reported by Spotlight.ro, that he sees the company shedding half its staff.

"A company the size of Tarom normally has around 500, 600 employees, 90% of whom are flight personnel. We have double that,” he added.

Awesome, good result. Except half the staff gonna lose their jobs now.

I didn’t read the linked articles but logically 300 good jobs is better than 600 not so good jobs, it was the reason the Jazz MEC did not reduce the MMG during Covid, 1500 part time jobs is not good for anyone, sure you’re employed but at half your salary.

Big difference is Jazz MEC forced Jazz to use CEWS. AC just turfed 600 pilots to the street to EI. CEWS would have been so much better for many, taking in a small stipend while still being able to work a part time job without claw backs. The 600 won't forget how they were treated for years to come.